PC When will the game be released II?

[DaVegaNL]

'It's done when it's done' can be interpreted in many different ways in my opinion. Passive aggressive, I can certainly see that one, even though I don't subscribe to that explanation. As a way to calm the masses, that's one as well. As a way of expressing 'we don't have a clue'. Can be a handy excuse, too.

 

[Zadwanaa]

Aren't developers always trying to make a game bug free?

Maybe game devs, but i'll tell ya... i've had some serious issues with Autocad over the years! A love hate relationship.

I find reading something like ''its done when its done'' being passive agressive. But according to post above you, some customers were rude. Its all fine, i will wait patiently for A17.

So i took a culinary course years back, and that was a VERY common response.

"whens this going to be ready?" "It'll be done when its done"

"how much longer does that need to sit in the oven?" "it'll be done when its done"

etc. etc. and since I asked many of those questions, i never felt it was a passive aggressive answer, just a blanket answer for dozens of people asking the same question. Granted its the tone when its delivered, but since this a forum, i wouldn't over analyze the meaning. Just that A17E will be done when TFP devs feel that A17E is ready.

hang in there, it'll come.. and hopefully, it'll be worth the wait! if not, then i guess we tar & feather someone

 

[Gazz]

"Entitled"I love this word (sarcasm). Yes people are somewhat entitled since they did PAY FOR THE GAME. They should and DO have some opinion, but its up to the devs rather or not they want to listen, because the community doesn't always know whats best for their game.

Well, they are entitled to the game and any alpha/beta/epsilon/whatever version when it's released. Just not to choosing when that occurs. =)

 

[SnowDog1942]

"Entitled"I love this word (sarcasm). Yes people are somewhat entitled since they did PAY FOR THE GAME. They should and DO have some opinion, but its up to the devs rather or not they want to listen, because the community doesn't always know whats best for their game.

If customers were always right Henry Ford would have invented a faster horse.

 

[IrishGhost]

Well, they are entitled to the game and any alpha/beta/epsilon/whatever version when it's released. Just not to choosing when that occurs. =)

Exactly, people will continue complaining because surprise surprise, most are impatient. Just let them vent and move on.

 

[beerfly]

Exactly, people will continue complaining because surprise surprise, most are impatient. Just let them vent and move on.

Sad or not, it is important to show them how things are going. This one took a while and we know it. Comparing the last alphas` release dates is a bit of a problem because this one took too much, indeed. But we all know it is gonna be better, whiners are honest, not all are raging, more of a curious beings. I respect them both , hope you all do in some way.

 

[TylerDB]

Aren't developers always trying to make a game bug free?

Unless its part of the Fable series, yeah pretty much. They just dropped em as they finished em lol

 

[Tin]

I find reading something like ''its done when its done'' being passive agressive. But according to post above you, some customers were rude. Its all fine, i will wait patiently for A17.

I find it the ultimate truth pill and pretty professional myself. I can respect them for not trying to always stroke our feelings just to take the sting away from the truth of it. Gets tiring with some game sites reading other dev's continually blowing smoke.

Does anyone really think TFP wanted it to take this long? This is their first product as a company and I would think they want it to be the best it can be. Besides, after everything is said and done, it's the end result that matters not the "In between" stuff that happened.

We have multiple other past builds they gave us access to, to try and tide us over.

Most of us have libraries full of games we can revisit as well, till that time comes.

What else is there really to say?

We still get dev's popping on here interacting with us so what's the issue?

 

[SnowDog1942]

Unless its part of the Fable series, yeah pretty much. They just dropped em as they finished em lol

Easier to just list the bugs as features.

TFP arent quite as bad but smaller map is an A17 feature according to the 2nd post listed under features, I kind of enjoy that one

It doesnt say smaller map, but the size given represents a much smaller map. To the untrained eye, reading that map size under a heading of "features" you would reasonably expect the listed size to be bigger....the sly dogs.

 

[TylerDB]

"Entitled"I love this word (sarcasm). Yes people are somewhat entitled since they did PAY FOR THE GAME. They should and DO have some opinion, but its up to the devs rather or not they want to listen, because the community doesn't always know whats best for their game.

Technically you paid for a finished game, which it isnt. So now it’s like being let in on the alpha/beta for free until gold comes out.

As long as the game gets finished, and you have played more than 80 hours.... you probably got what you paid for it and then some. Hell i paid 90$ for fallout4 and i probably sunk 15 hours into it.

 

[IrishGhost]

Sad or not, it is important to show them how things are going. This one took a while and we know it. Comparing the last alphas` release dates is a bit of a problem because this one took too much, indeed. But we all know it is gonna be better, whiners are honest, not all are raging, more of a curious beings. I respect them both , hope you all do in some way.

I mean I agree that the time between now and the last update has been a bit much, and I've already voiced that months ago. Repeating it over and over won't do anything to help it. I am however thankful that the devs communicate with the fourms, haven't grabbed the money and run, or abandoned the game *COUGH DayZ COUGH*

 

[IrishGhost]

Technically you paid for a finished game, which it isnt. So now it’s like being let in on the alpha/beta for free until gold comes out.As long as the game gets finished, and you have played more than 80 hours.... you probably got what you paid for it and then some. Hell i paid 90$ for fallout4 and i probably sunk 15 hours into it.

My rule of thumb is if I pay 60$ for a game I expect at least 120 hours of fun. Of course I don't always abide by this since I got Cuphead at 20$ or Bayonetta. Have maybe a couple of hours on both games? But I don't regret and will always go back to them. Have like what, 615 hours in 7D2D from 25$ (another 25$ for a friend). I got my money's worth but still want to sink more hours in, and be a tiny voice for suggestions/opinions to help this game become closer to my dream game (which it almost is).

Getting a little off-topic now lmao, will stop.

 

[beerfly]

I mean I agree that the time between now and the last update has been a bit much, and I've already voiced that months ago. Repeating it over and over won't do anything to help it. I am however thankful that the devs communicate with the fourms, haven't grabbed the money and run, or abandoned the game *COUGH DayZ COUGH*

Lol, yea, Dayz is example that is a bad one. Not 7dtd, the best is yet to come.

For the guys that are unaware how this game is evolving through the years , here , watch and enjoy :

Thank you Skippy0330

 

[mojojosr]

5 years playing and still alpha.. ugh

 

[art336]

Of course. Only customers have vices such as being impatient, being underage, and feeling entitled. Developers only have virtues.
It is known.

/s

I wouldn't say that, but I will say that your three characteristic traits of customers are not exclusive; underage means impatient and entitled usually. And since none of the devs are children, that means in this relationship ONLY the customers, some of them, can be impatient, underage, and entitled.

I would also not say that devs only have virtues, but I will say that they are the ones making the game, which is the only virtue that counts in a consumer and provider relationship.

/ns

 

[art336]

I find reading something like ''its done when its done'' being passive agressive. But according to post above you, some customers were rude. Its all fine, i will wait patiently for A17.

I wouldn't say passive aggressive. I would say it is completely uncaring about the not caring the customer does on part of the contract that we signed.

I mean, I know I agreed to terms of use, and I was informed that the development process would take time. I would have to be a stone cold idiot to reimagine that somehow into "Whenever the customer says so."

Passive aggressive? Nah, they don't care enough. If anything, it would simply be overtly aggressive. Read the actual post in which Trolland talked about it. He was actually pretty short with it, and only short of being rude when you consider that the phrase "it's done when it's done" is in direct response to the customers forgetting about the agreement we all digitally signed.

But hey, if YOU "find" that reading something somehow changes the meaning...for example, if you read my post and get anything other than me being exasperated at yet another one of my students or nieces/nephews then you need some serious help. The statement, as it reads, is a statement. It is a fact. It IS done when it is done. But if you think it means something different I suppose you magically mind controlled Trolland into meaning something he never did.

Actually, my students are better trained than that, so let me retract that statement as to not insult them.

- - - Updated - - -

"Entitled"I love this word (sarcasm). Yes people are somewhat entitled since they did PAY FOR THE GAME. They should and DO have some opinion, but its up to the devs rather or not they want to listen, because the community doesn't always know whats best for their game.

Actually, what you paid for was early access to the game. The game comes later, and the game is still in development. If you would ever read the terms you would realize that you did not, in fact, purchase the game, you purchased early access to the game. The game has not been released yet. You are entitled to watch the development process. When the game goes for sale, you are entitled to the game. And only then.

Oh, and it's whether or not, not rather or not. That has nothing to do with the contract we all signed with TFP, that's me being what I am.

 

[Jackelmyer]

The statement, as it reads, is a statement. It is a fact. It IS done when it is done. But if you think it means something different I suppose you magically mind controlled Trolland into meaning something he never did.

Actually, my students are better trained than that, so let me retract that statement as to not insult them.

Oy... I don't mean to pick... And I largely agree, but this struck me a little sideways man...

Passive aggressive is real. TFP and Moderators can sometimes be passive aggressive. And really, "It's done when it's done" coupled with Roland's exasperation on the current release schedule of A17 lends to this. Madmole's "It's done when it's done" reads differently than Roland's.

Single statements, even if a fact, can absolutely be delivered to have more meaning than the fact itself.

Agreed that "It's done when it's done" is a fact though. Sorry... But this all seemed dismissive and I think my life leaves me oversensitive to dismissive responses.

 

[art336]

Oy... I don't mean to pick... And I largely agree, but this struck me a little sideways man...
Passive aggressive is real. TFP and Moderators can sometimes be passive aggressive. And really, "It's done when it's done" coupled with Roland's exasperation on the current release schedule of A17 lends to this. Madmole's "It's done when it's done" reads differently than Roland's.

Single statements, even if a fact, can absolutely be delivered to have more meaning than the fact itself.

Agreed that "It's done when it's done" is a fact though. Sorry... But this all seemed dismissive and I think my life leaves me oversensitive to dismissive responses.

It was meant to be dismissive. I don't have a high post count, so feel free to spend five minutes to read them. Generally, I like to point out fallacies of logic in the complaints of the other forum players.

I started in a15. I have about two thousand hours logged. I really enjoy the game. The thing is that I paid for early access and know this game is not finished. Empyrion has really changed the entire way you craft items quite a few times since I purchased it a few months ago. This game, not so much. It is what I originally purchased, and it adds on top of that.

That is how I feel. Everyone else seems to have some strange concept of how the devs are beholden to our ideas. That was never an agreement we made with the devs, so I find many posts and complaints to be simple errors in logic, if someone would think about what they say. So I generally just post to troll people and point out how incoherent some things are.

So yes, the statement is passive aggressive. But only in response to the true disrespect some people throw the way of the devs. I remember reading Kinjayuu a month or three back actually feeling insulted and being a little hurt over how some of his customers spoke to and treated him. I feel that if we were all sitting in a room, most people would not speak this way. It's a good way to get punched in the mouth, and you and I both know it. So maybe if we'd quit being actively aggressive, they wouldn't feel the need to be passive aggressive.

 

[Roland]

I understand that five years is a long time. It’s probably a third of your life for some of you...

One interpretation is that the repeated revamping and redoing of the same features is that TFP has no direction and doesn’t know what game they are making. That interpretation is solely based on speculation, assumptions, and guesses.

Another explanation is that we are witnesses to a process called development that includes experimentation, trial and error, progressive iterations, and emerging ideas. Usually, these processes are hidden from our view behind closed doors and all we see is the final intended version. This explanation is based on first-hand knowledge.

Now I don’t want to be accused of talking out of the side of my neck and forcing people to believe a certain way so I will simply leave it up to the reader to decide whether they want to believe supposition or knowledge. The developers have posted on the Steam store page exactly what this game purports to be. Just read that and you should be able to figure it out. Nothing introduced at this stage is final. It is all experimental and iteratively implemented but it is all spiraling inward toward the same vision the devs had five years ago.

 

[emarat]

So yes, the statement is passive aggressive. But only in response to the true disrespect some people throw the way of the devs. I remember reading Kinjayuu a month or three back actually feeling insulted and being a little hurt over how some of his customers spoke to and treated him. I feel that if we were all sitting in a room, most people would not speak this way. It's a good way to get punched in the mouth, and you and I both know it. So maybe if we'd quit being actively aggressive, they wouldn't feel the need to be passive aggressive.

This reminds me of something that happened in the boardgame kickstartet community which is a good tale to remind us that developers are people too and maybe sometimes we should think about them too.

There was a dev who worked parttime on a boardgame. After the campaign finished there were some issues with it delivering and stuff. Well he was done with his work and decided to follow his dream and founded his own boardgame company. He promoted his upcoming Kickstarter project in the old campaign that he worked on. The backers completely destroyed him. The damage their comments did to his psyche was so great that he killed himself.

It was shocking that that happened but it just showed how easily we sometimes can affect people and i think sometimes we just should try to take a step back and try to put ourselves into their shoes.

Disclaimer: i am not saying anyone at TFP is in that position right now. Do you want to be the one who maybe puts them there.

I know this is a real downer story, sorry for that.

@Roland

If i shouldn’t have mentioned this i am sorry. I just felt it should be told.