People here like to cite the "you signed up for early access" rhetoric. But delayed releases scheduled for 1 year from the last - delays at least 4 months in, for an update to a game; not a new game - is kind ridiculous even in the realm of early access. Nervous laughs aside, TFP reputation is deeply tarnished.
PC When will A17 Experimental be released 4?
- Thread starter Roland
- Start date
Whatever you may call it, it's also stating the facts. This is a forum thread to discuss A17. I'm doing just that while also being respectful to the rules of the forum. These are grievances a significant portion of the community have. Roland has been courteous in attempting to address them but he can fix the blunders of an organization with the wave of his hand, unfortunately. And people are dismayed by TFP' operation and handling of information releases. You can't say one thing and not follow through or do something that appears amateurish and not expect flake for it
ParadiseLostUK
Active member
It's a game.... play something else, A17 will come in it's own time. There are way more important things in life to be worried about.
I play games for fun, not to get get stressed out and angry. That's what work is for.
We cite it because it's true. The reality is that A16.4 is, while not perfect, something that could be considered a finished product when held up to other game releases, had TFP just wanted to do a cash-grab. As someone with nearly 1500 hours in game-time in 7D, I can say that pretty confidently. However, they continue to work on the game---updating systems, changing systems to be more in line with what they envisioned, adding new content and expanding on older content, introducing new systems and improvements. And sure, there are any number of reasons to grouse about the timeframe...yet...
This is Early Access. As you so snarkily wanted to point out. It's not just "rhetoric;" it's the actual fact of the situation. Those of us playing right now signed up for early access. Now, you can dislike the fact that that early access did not come with any sort of real, tangible timeline, but you don't get to decide the timeline, TFP do. And those of us who enjoy the game as-is, and who are looking forward to its continued development are perfectly fine to let TFP work out the kinks how they wish, in the timeframe they wish. If you're not...may I suggest building your own game, and shutting up with the entitled, self-aggrandizing talk of what you find "ridiculous"?
In before someone accuses me of "white-knighting" for TFP: I'm not thrilled with the delays, either. I'm sure there are things that could have been done better. But the reality is that TFP are not obligated to any sort of timeframe in this early access. So stop trying to layer your own over the entire thing, and either wait patiently for the next release, or move the heck on.
The constant belittling of a development team whose game you claim to care about pisses me off to no end.
ParadiseLostUK
Active member
Yeah, I would have said it that eloquently too had I not already had a long day at work and a few beers.
Drithyl
New member
This is the part that gets me too. Criticism is fine, but when a single user comes to the same thread and posts 3 or 4 messages within the hour repeatedly calling the dev team "amateurs" or "noobs" while stating that he is being respectful, that upsets me, especially when *everything* that the user posts is that kind of stuff.
I'm here to read information about the new update, not to read the same critiques over and over and over again every few pages. I'm pretty sure TFP took their point a long time ago. Now let it go, sit back and see what they come up with.
A16.4 is not a finished game. If you're comparing it to terrible games that claim their finished products, then you're implying A16 is a terrible finish game.
Developers of early access games give updates about their development. TFP were doing that, and that's great. But right when they suggested a likely release, and surpassed it, they stopped with the updates. Then the trickling of information began with poorly orchestrated delivery and further anticipated delays.
And whether they provided a timeframe or not, (which they did btw), community members should be encouraged to voice their concerns. The attitude of the TFP, with the exception of Roland, seems to be an unwillingness to own up to their failures of meeting deadlines, producing quality information and content etc. That deserves criticism.
Cazmyr
New member
Is the ad hominem attack your favorite logical fallacy?
Were there others in the running or others that you really like?
You have no demonstration of rational arguments or reasoning. You attack the person making a point against you and then continue through logical fallacy after fallacy.
If you are not just a troll and have points to make then make them without attacking the people making the posts you don't like.
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A lot of the posts I'm quoting are going ignored. Is it a crime to expect a little acknowledgement from the rest of the community about the blunders we've witnessed. If more people point out what issues they're finding concerning and other support it, it creates a precedent to have those concerns acknowledged, future related issues rectified. Personally, I would really like video's Joel releases to be a little more thought out with objectives and precise information they intend to share properly presented. It's not much to ask.
Actually, I disagree. More charitably, I pointing out the exact instances I'm taking issue with and suggesting alternatives that may pose as solutions. I'm also exposing an interesting fact that many more people has similar frustrations, even those who haven't expressed them yet. What I'm describing is constructive, despite your doubt in the means i'm attempting to achieve it - which is odd, because forums are designed for expressing such issues.
Arkonik
New member
Call me crazy and blind But I have not seen one post where anyone from TFP gave a release date.
I've read we hope to by such and such we are trying to but never a actual release date.
I'd like a link to a release date posting or a video by one of TFP saying a actual release date before I can support any one complaining about A17e not being released yet.
I've read we hope to by such and such we are trying to but never a actual release date.
I'd like a link to a release date posting or a video by one of TFP saying a actual release date before I can support any one complaining about A17e not being released yet.
What you're doing is not criticism; it's simply being critical, and there's a difference. They stopped pushing out updates because every time they do, people like you take every estimate they give and treat is as if it is some Gospel of Pimp and should be treated like the word of freaking GOD. Then, if something happens and things get delayed, or the estimate just wasn't accurate, you lose your damned minds and start calling people names, accusing the devs of lacking direction, integrity, etc...and outright lambasting what they're doing as "ridiculous."
You're not criticising in the sense that you like to seem to WANT to use the word "criticise," you're simply mudslinging to make yourself feel better, and to try and prove how "right" you are. You're entitled to your opinion...but when that opinion is basically a bunch of name-calling, childish, playground antics wrapped up in "but I have the right..." then we have the right to call you on it, because it's utter bollocks.
Nowhere have I seen an unwillingness to own up to failures. In fact, it's the community's unwillingness to accept failures that's led to the dearth of information. No matter how many times TFP have apologized for delays or deadlines or slow update info leaks, people in your camp harp on it. And harp on it. And HARP ON IT. The criticism has already been levied, and information given...yet here you sit, still lambasting them over it. You. Are. Part. Of. The. Problem.
I didn't say 16.4 was a finished game; I said that compared to other fully-released games, what exists in A16.4 could be considered a finished game, had the Pimps wished to do so. And I'm implying nothing. You're inferring based on your own confirmation biases. I'd point out how fallacious that is, but I'm reasonably certain you already know, and don't care, so what's the point?
The content I am referring to was released within a span of the last 5 weeks or so. I've said the instances I'm referring to make it SEEM amateurish. The reference of noob was stated by Joel in his own video followed by him admitting to not having played for more than a year.
So i'll set myself aside from the presumed camp you've associated me with. I'm calling on acknowledgment of what they've produced and what small changes I've suggested can make a huge difference. If you're saying TFP have cordoned themselves off from the community, I would like to hear that from Roland because that's sound really bizarre. As I've said elsewhere, I'm taking issue with how up until recently (following the loose timeline they provided ("probable release") they've stopped communicating or produced ad hoc videos and social media posts with little focus and appearing to be ignorant of workings of their own systems etc - this, at a time, following what they expected to be a release etc.
These are pertinent concerns that warrant some sort of response. I think the community should be expecting one to0.