zztong
Well-known member
I agree. My comments were in response to what I perceived to be a discussion of "realistic immersion."
PC What was the point of the water change?
- Thread starter GlassDeviant
- Start date
I agree. My comments were in response to what I perceived to be a discussion of "realistic immersion."
BFT2020
Well-known member
Yeah, don't get me started on being able to use a battery from a vehicle that has been sitting that long unused, or even a working engine
Riamus
Well-known member
I can see it now... TFP listens to the feedback and in A22:
No murky water or other drinks in loot or at traders or in vending machines. No change to how you can drink water from lakes and rivers currently and still no way to carry it away so that you have no choice but to have a dozen dew collectors per person even if you aren't doing much crafting.
Batteries and engines cannot be found in loot and must be crafted or bought to simulate the reality of them no longer being good after years of sitting around.
All lights everywhere are out as there is no one running the electric grid.
Practically all loot is gone besides scraps as it's already picked clean long ago.
Won't that realistic immersion be so much fun!
No murky water or other drinks in loot or at traders or in vending machines. No change to how you can drink water from lakes and rivers currently and still no way to carry it away so that you have no choice but to have a dozen dew collectors per person even if you aren't doing much crafting.
Batteries and engines cannot be found in loot and must be crafted or bought to simulate the reality of them no longer being good after years of sitting around.
All lights everywhere are out as there is no one running the electric grid.
Practically all loot is gone besides scraps as it's already picked clean long ago.
Won't that realistic immersion be so much fun!
Don't forget that fossil fuels will go bad in a couple years too.
Ever tried to use some old gas in your lawn mower?
So how long ago was the apocalypse anyway? That is an important question that I don't recall ever seeing answered here.
From the state of things, I would think it is fairly recent, like in our (the survivors) lifetime but who knows what the Pimps consider it (or if they've even considered it at all)
Ever tried to use some old gas in your lawn mower?
So how long ago was the apocalypse anyway? That is an important question that I don't recall ever seeing answered here.
From the state of things, I would think it is fairly recent, like in our (the survivors) lifetime but who knows what the Pimps consider it (or if they've even considered it at all)
BFT2020
Well-known member
I can see it now... TFP listens to the feedback and in A22:
No murky water or other drinks in loot or at traders or in vending machines. No change to how you can drink water from lakes and rivers currently and still no way to carry it away so that you have no choice but to have a dozen dew collectors per person even if you aren't doing much crafting.
Batteries and engines cannot be found in loot and must be crafted or bought to simulate the reality of them no longer being good after years of sitting around.
All lights everywhere are out as there is no one running the electric grid.
Practically all loot is gone besides scraps as it's already picked clean long ago.
Won't that realistic immersion be so much fun!
That's spooky. That's almost what I modded
- Gas is bad and has to be filtered (at a lost) for any you find while looting
- Drinks and food has been removed from loot tables (just murky water, seeds, and canned goods)
- Engines are replaced with engine parts in loot tables, and requires additional components to craft a new one
- Batteries are dead in loot (just a source of lead)
And yes, I been having a blast playing this way
But this is definitely not wide spread fun for everyone
meilodasreh
New member
Yes.
For consistency and also immersion/realism reasons fuel should be "murky" if you find it and it has to be
Also you shouldn't be able to "harvest" it directly from the source like cars, gas pumps, barrels,...
Instead you should have to craft a "drip-collector", a special "workstation" made out of a big tarp that can be put underneath cars, to collect drops of fuel which would come out of the - after all that time obviously leaking - tanks.
Let's say these require some filter (special buy-at-traders-only item), a bunch of scrap polymer and other stuff, and when placed, it automatically starts to collect up to three full "gas cans" per day, at the cost of also creating some heat that will lure in screamers.
You would have to get to these "drip collectors" regularly to collect the fuel to avoid it stopping because it's "full".
Sounds like a total crap idea to me.
I'm curious, in your mod can you still drop those batteries in a bank hooked up to a generator to recharge them? Or can those dead batteries be used in the recipe for any of the vehicles or is it a custom item designated as a "dead battery" which differs it from others?
Jost Amman
Well-known member
After reading the last 10 comments or so, I'm happy it's The Fun Pimps developing the game, and not you guys.
You wouldn't be able to tell fun from a boring if your life depended on it... :heh:
Unless you were just bantering.
You wouldn't be able to tell fun from a boring if your life depended on it... :heh:
Unless you were just bantering.
Ramethzer0
Well-known member
Chiming in on this one: Gasoline itself is not shelf stable. If its stored poorly it can go bad as quickly as a few weeks. Stored properly, it can go for longer but it has the tendency to still go bad after half a year. Kerosene starts to behave weird after a while, due to condensation, and I've not done much research on natural gas but in a bug out situation I wouldn't expect it to last long. I've got more concerns about the integrity of the containers that fossil fuels tend to be stored in.
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Riamus
Well-known member
Calendars in the game show 2034, so that appears to be the date when the apocalypse happened. But beyond that, I don't think anything has shown how long it's been. Based on how things look (which isn't a good measure in this game), I'd guess 5-10 years after the apocalypse.
There's also the fact that it'll evaporate over time, so even if it didn't go bad, it probably would be gone by the time the game is based.
Jost Amman
Well-known member
BFT2020
Well-known member
Do you think I was just bantering?
Something about having to make choices and plan ahead, each day of survival, just appeals to me.
Khyron
New member
This whole argument is dumb. Why? Because if 'Reality' is the goal, then can you imagine how the game would play?
The entire inventory system would have to be modified from the top down. No more carrying engines, they'd be way too heavy for anyone to just stuff in a nebulous 'backpack' we don't even see! Forges shouldn't occupy the same amount of space as a single nail, either. Then we'll have to completely screw up the whole scavenging system. I mean, whoever heard of disassembling a car into nonexistence with a wrench??? You should have to dismantle each part in sequence because obviously you can't reach some parts while others are in the way. And when you're done it's not like you can just mysteriously break down all the parts by hand. You have to individually smelt them down into their component minerals, and that includes far more than just iron. Then there's resources. You can't just chop a tree down and instantly make a cube! You gotta chop the tree, trim off the branches, remove the bark, then saw it into planks. Then you have to build your building carefully by constructing the wooden frame and nailing each individual plank to the frame. Unless it's concrete, in which case we need to construct the mold we'll be pouring the concrete into, mix the cement mix and water together in a cement mixer, pour it, even it out, wait for it to dry...
"Reality" is the worse possible justification to use in a game where you can instantly convert wood to rock to concrete to steel using just a nailgun
The entire inventory system would have to be modified from the top down. No more carrying engines, they'd be way too heavy for anyone to just stuff in a nebulous 'backpack' we don't even see! Forges shouldn't occupy the same amount of space as a single nail, either. Then we'll have to completely screw up the whole scavenging system. I mean, whoever heard of disassembling a car into nonexistence with a wrench??? You should have to dismantle each part in sequence because obviously you can't reach some parts while others are in the way. And when you're done it's not like you can just mysteriously break down all the parts by hand. You have to individually smelt them down into their component minerals, and that includes far more than just iron. Then there's resources. You can't just chop a tree down and instantly make a cube! You gotta chop the tree, trim off the branches, remove the bark, then saw it into planks. Then you have to build your building carefully by constructing the wooden frame and nailing each individual plank to the frame. Unless it's concrete, in which case we need to construct the mold we'll be pouring the concrete into, mix the cement mix and water together in a cement mixer, pour it, even it out, wait for it to dry...
"Reality" is the worse possible justification to use in a game where you can instantly convert wood to rock to concrete to steel using just a nailgun
Roland
Moderator
There are tons of games that all handle water survival differently. Some even ignore water and thirst altogether. Any time I approach a game in the survival genre I figure out what the rules are and then adopt those in my gameplay and survival strategies. Very rarely have I seen a game that makes all survival features hyper realistic. The issue that is really going on here is that there are some long-time players who were used to the old mechanics and found the new mechanic jarring compared to the old. That's the entire reason for the debate.
Most new players won't reject the game or proclaim it not survival because of how jars are represented or that there are limitations imposed on gathering water. They will simply come to figure out what the mechanic is and then adopt the game's reality into their personal gameplay. Some will make connections in their mind to explain why it is the way it is to help their own immersion and others won't even think about it once they understand how it works.
Inventory is a great example of something that people joke about how unrealistic it is but nobody really expects it to conform to reality. In fact, many double down and install backpack enlargement mods so they can push things to even greater unrealistic proportions. I wonder how many people complaining about the lack of empty jars and how it is unrealistic that we can't gather water into containers from lakes currently have a backpack mod installed...
Most new players won't reject the game or proclaim it not survival because of how jars are represented or that there are limitations imposed on gathering water. They will simply come to figure out what the mechanic is and then adopt the game's reality into their personal gameplay. Some will make connections in their mind to explain why it is the way it is to help their own immersion and others won't even think about it once they understand how it works.
Inventory is a great example of something that people joke about how unrealistic it is but nobody really expects it to conform to reality. In fact, many double down and install backpack enlargement mods so they can push things to even greater unrealistic proportions. I wonder how many people complaining about the lack of empty jars and how it is unrealistic that we can't gather water into containers from lakes currently have a backpack mod installed...
No not really. One is a bad idea about water in the game and the other is just facts about fossil fuels in the real world.
Apples and oranges. Again, glad you aren't developing the game.
All very true.
Hey! I uninstalled my backpack mod and have been sucking it up and dealing with it (besides I learned that the drone will take 4 cargo mods).
Some people are really bent about it, but I think most of us are just throwing around ideas. I mean I think my suggestions were reasonable, but I don't expect them to get implemented anyway, because face it, most indy devs don't think anyone's ideas but their own are good and they hate to admit someone else had a better idea for their game. Of course all of us think our suggestions are reasonable.
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binf_shinana
New member
確かに、バックパック拡張MODの導入に対して、ほとんどのプレイヤーが寛容なのは常に不思議に感じていました。
ドローンや車両を放置したままだと消失する可能性があるマルチプレイで、その対策として仕方なく導入しているサーバーは知っています。
また、アイテムの種類が大幅に増えすぎていて、バックパックの拡張をせざるをえないオーバーホールMODはたしかにあります。
しかし、サバイバルゲームにおいてはアイテムの取捨選択も楽しみの一つです。上記のような理由なくバックパックを拡張するのはゲームの要素を自ら一つ殺すことだと考えています。
Admittedly, I've always found it strange that most players are so open to the introduction of backpack expansion mods.
In multiplayer games, drones and vehicles can disappear if left unattended, and I know of servers that have reluctantly introduced them as a countermeasure.
Also, there are certainly overhaul mods that greatly increase the variety of items and force you to expand your backpack.
However, in survival games, choosing items is also part of the fun. I believe that expanding the backpack without the above reason is killing an element of the game.
.
Riamus
Well-known member
I agree. I consider inventory management to be a good thing in a game like this. And I think the amount of inventory space available is already plenty. Your own inventory isn't bad to begin with and your vehicles quickly expand to give you more space as you start progressing into the game and looting more. By the time you really need the space, you should have a drone and a drone with 4 cargo pods holds a lot of stuff. The combination of your inventory, your vehicle inventory, and your drone inventory, not to mention being able to place storage chests wherever you want to store things temporarily means I don't see any reason to use a backpack mod.
You are right, though, that if you're using a mod that greatly increases items you loot (even the vehicle madness mod does this, so it's not just overhaul mods), then you may need a backpack mod to compensate. But otherwise, I don't see any need.
Of course, some games have way too small of an inventory for what you can loot and it becomes a chore to deal with it, so there's definitely a balance needed. But I think it's in a good place in this game.