PC What was the point of the water change?

Buddy Revell said:
Instead of jars disappearing, have the character animate smashing the jar against their head after drinking. Maybe returning broken glass... small chance of bleeding.  It'll be the Fun Pimp way.
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But there is no eating sounds so why are people claiming you eat it unless they are trolling?  You could say you smash it without it as it makes more sense then eating glass since eating shards of glass does kills you in the game.

 
minisith said:
But there is no eating sounds so why are people claiming you eat it unless they are trolling?
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This is probably meant more as a joke.


Spoiler




You can come up with whatever explanation you want as to why it is like this and not different. It doesn't really matter. The fact is that the game does not return an empty glass when you drink from it. Whether you come up with an explanation or just ignore it is up to you. I just see it from the perspective that it's a game and doesn't have to be realistic.
 

 
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Been playing Alpha 21 now for a bit and my only gripe is about the water collection system is that when you are playing a game with no traders it is damn near impossible to find a filter. I thought finding honey in stumps was a challenge but I have yet to get lucky and get a water filter(I am assuming they are rare loot at best). 

 
Roland said:
I've found two filter mods for the helmet during the early game after countless restarts over the past year. I agree that finding an early helmet filter mod ruins the water survival gameplay but I wouldn't exactly call it a common occurrence. In both cases, I just sold it because I wanted to play the water survival game but I guess it is there for someone like you who doesn't. If you're finding it as a common item in all your restarts over the past two weeks you must be very happy. congrats.
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Much as I would hate to see it nerfed, I have gotten it pretty early in 3 of 4 A21 starts. Granted, I still make and use red tea/coffee/beer as their bonuses are situationally useful.

So maybe drinking water is only an issue the first day or two but honestly the water situation now never goes away because of the need for glue by the @%$#ing tanker load. QL5 robotics take stupid amounts of tape, and with the mod for QL6 scaling consistently it is even stupider at 90 for a turret, 60 for a drone.

I want a pump to pump water out of the nearby pond and make glue. That should be a late game thing!

 
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I hate the new water system.  Its beyond absurd and is killing crafting since its making it harder to make glue and duct tape.  I get they wanted to overhaul the system and that was not a bad idea but this is a terrible execution.  My base is by a lake, so why the heck am I having to scrounge toilets and use dew collectors?  I was super hopeful they would reverse course in this madness but it does not appear they have any desire to do so.

 
I don't want to see the jars come back either after playing with it for a bit but maybe if we could boil buckets full of water and/or snow?

Again, we can do the handwave and get magic bottles full (as long as we get the bucket back).

 
GreasyMullet said:
I was super hopeful they would reverse course in this madness but it does not appear they have any desire to do so.
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We're at freaking Alpha 21.1. How do you know what they have any desire to do? How can they have thoroughly analyzed play data to decide whether they want to make adjustments or changes? Just because there are complaints doesn't automatically mean those complaints are representative of everyone and that they should just erase features they added almost immediately after release.

Any reversal or major changes to dew collectors, water harvesting, etc are certainly not going to come before A22 or A23 if they come at all. They like to take many months of play data to make such decisions and they don't knee-jerk revert features they've implemented based on initial reactions to change.

 
個人的には、無駄な中間素材の削除には全面的に賛成であり、瓶の削除自体には賛成です。
ただし、露収集機が必要かと言われると「現状ではなくてもよかった」と回答します。

ダクトテープの数で全体のゲームバランスの舵取りをしたい意図は伝わりますが、拾ったり購入したぶんで足りてしまうため、あまり意味はありません。
爆発矢を大量に作りたいというオプションを達成したい場合は異なりますが、これについては露収集機があったとしても、現状では作るのが大変になりすぎていると感じます（手間に見合う性能になっていません）。

(google translation)

Personally, I'm totally in favor of removing the useless intermediate material, and I'm in favor of removing the jar itself.
However, when asked if a dew collecting machine was necessary, he answered, "I'm glad I didn't have it now."

It conveys the intention of wanting to steer the overall game balance with the number of duct tapes, but it doesn't make much sense because just picking it up or buying it will suffice.
It's different if you want to achieve the option of making a lot of explosive arrows, but I feel that this is currently becoming too difficult to make even if there is a dew collector (the performance is worth the effort not).

 
Roland said:
We're at freaking Alpha 21.1. How do you know what they have any desire to do? How can they have thoroughly analyzed play data to decide whether they want to make adjustments or changes? Just because there are complaints doesn't automatically mean those complaints are representative of everyone and that they should just erase features they added almost immediately after release.

Any reversal or major changes to dew collectors, water harvesting, etc are certainly not going to come before A22 or A23 if they come at all. They like to take many months of play data to make such decisions and they don't knee-jerk revert features they've implemented based on initial reactions to change.
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In his defense Roland, you did say a page ago that it was "the devs top priority to get rid of jars" (I am paraphrasing here, but it was something to that effect) and even though you might not have much better insight than the rest of us, you guys tend to forget your words are taken as having the weight of the devs.

 
Krougal said:
In his defense Roland, you did say a page ago that it was "the devs top priority to get rid of jars" (I am paraphrasing here, but it was something to that effect) and even though you might not have much better insight than the rest of us, you guys tend to forget your words are taken as having the weight of the devs.
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And I stand by what I said. But just because they never plan to return empty jars doesn't mean that they wouldn't ever make other adjustments that current critics might see as improvements. There are many ways they might change what they currently have without adding jars back in. But that wasn't my point. It doesn't bother me that the guy wants changes to be made because he doesn't like the current system. That's perfectly fair. What bothers me is that he seems to expect them to have reverted it all within a month of the original release. My point is that we can expect that any major changes to the current system aren't going to come until at least A22. Yeah, the bottles won't be coming back ever but at the same time it's also way too soon to be disappointed that systems implemented in A21.0 haven't been overhauled or reverted by A21.1. Sure, there are critical posts in the forums and social media but there is also plenty of support. It is not overwhelming and universal hatred of the new changes in A21 by a long shot so the devs are not going to knee-jerk revert anything.

 
I thought I'd dislike the changes to the water system, but I actually think it's fine.

I agree that it's difficult when starting out and that it's easier with more people in your group (which increases the chance of happening upon murky water or water purifiers), but it doesn't take too long to get to a stage whereby it's not something you have to worry about.

Actually in my last playthrough I did once find 3 screamers hanging around my water collector building I'd built with like 10 water collectors on the roof. Not sure if it's been scripted for them to try and destroy our water supply but I just added some defences around it to be safe. Would be cool if that were the case because as I said, I was at a stage where water was not an issue but if the enemies decided to target it at higher difficulties, then it would bring about a new challenge.

 
Toops144 said:
I thought I'd dislike the changes to the water system, but I actually think it's fine.

I agree that it's difficult when starting out and that it's easier with more people in your group (which increases the chance of happening upon murky water or water purifiers), but it doesn't take too long to get to a stage whereby it's not something you have to worry about.

Actually in my last playthrough I did once find 3 screamers hanging around my water collector building I'd built with like 10 water collectors on the roof. Not sure if it's been scripted for them to try and destroy our water supply but I just added some defences around it to be safe. Would be cool if that were the case because as I said, I was at a stage where water was not an issue but if the enemies decided to target it at higher difficulties, then it would bring about a new challenge.
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Mine are out in the open and noone has @%$#ed with them. The way screamers work is they are drawn by heat.

The way heat works is generally making noise. Using crafting stations all generate some heat. The chem station the most.

Resource gathering is a big heat generator too, especially with an augur or chainsaw.

This isn't heat in the literal sense, which I think many people take it as, but the figurative sense of "drawing heat to yourself"

So yes, even the dew collectors produce heat, which while it still doesn't make a lot of sense for them to outside of the obvious reason of limiting how many we spam, I think of it as signs of activity and civilization produce heat.

Some people would consider it a bonus, and although I generally do, I still want the ability to control when a screamer horde starts, it is a little annoying when you have planned to do some gardening and uninvited guests show up. A half a dozen or so dew collectors seems to be ok.

 
I'm not a fan of the new water system, nor of how magazines work.

DF it will be for me again, as soon as Khaine throws out the A21 adapted (5.0?) version.

Getting water from any source, lbd, and some different use of the magazine system (curious how it will work, but I'm confident it'll be more to my liking than vanilla).

Ah just a few weeks away.

 
meilodasreh said:
I'm not a fan of the new water system, nor of how magazines work.

DF it will be for me again, as soon as Khaine throws out the A21 adapted (5.0?) version.

Getting water from any source, lbd, and some different use of the magazine system (curious how it will work, but I'm confident it'll be more to my liking than vanilla).

Ah just a few weeks away.
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You're not alone. I am looking forward to the next version of Undead Legacy myself (though I really enjoyed Darkness Falls as well). Both @KhaineGBand @Subquake and their teams have done awesome work with their interpretations of the game. Tbh, UL addressed the over abundance of drinking/crafting water during early to mid game before we were ever faced with having to deal with dew collectors and the removal of jars in A21 vanilla. Whats instore with magazine progression will hopefully be refreshing.

Yeah, off topic (kinda) but if vanilla is the only gameplay one knows, delving into some mainstream overhaul mods like those mentioned here might just be the key for extending one's enjoyment of 7Dtd. Its worked for me 😊

 
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Krougal said:
Mine are out in the open and noone has @%$#ed with them. The way screamers work is they are drawn by heat.

The way heat works is generally making noise. Using crafting stations all generate some heat. The chem station the most.

Resource gathering is a big heat generator too, especially with an augur or chainsaw.

This isn't heat in the literal sense, which I think many people take it as, but the figurative sense of "drawing heat to yourself"

So yes, even the dew collectors produce heat, which while it still doesn't make a lot of sense for them to outside of the obvious reason of limiting how many we spam, I think of it as signs of activity and civilization produce heat.

Some people would consider it a bonus, and although I generally do, I still want the ability to control when a screamer horde starts, it is a little annoying when you have planned to do some gardening and uninvited guests show up. A half a dozen or so dew collectors seems to be ok.
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Yeah I understand you.

Like you my dew collectors are out in the open separate from the main base (around 100 meters away), but the idea of "drawing heat to human activity" so to speak makes sense.

 
I hope this find a way to the developer. It's very uncool to take the Jar out of the game.
You find water, but no empty Bottle or Glass for storing the water and take it with me.
And if I find something to drink, I wouldn't throw away the Glass Jar. So why does it disappear after drinking?
Sorry, but that's stupid.
Also, the unrealistic amount you have to drink and eat!
Okay, it’s a survival game, and not everything is realistic, but that is very uncool.

 
Pretty late to the party really. 








They (developers) don't have any intent at this point to bring back empty jars, it is now consistent with every other liquid in the game which is what they want.  It is the same as bottles of acid or gas cans.  They don't want to deal with empty containers in their game.

 
BFT2020 said:
 They don't want to deal with empty containers in their game.
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Not to nitpick, but if that is the end game, then at some point chest, safes, ranges etc are going to go poof like the  bird nests and jars?

Or is it just items that sit outside of PoI that give them problems?  Empty grills going bye bye?

Really just wondering, honest question.  

I mean, me thinks to is more of making it a gating item, so you can go kiss the traders butt AND give him some dukes.

 
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