PC What is wrong with melee?

Viktoriusiii

Viktoriusiii

New member
(didnt find the thread about melee beeing bad now so please merge if you want to)

WTF??? 5 minutes in and I already lost my interest in this Alpha... And I was so looking forward to it.

I haven't even tried out any other weapon than the sledge...

But EVERYTHING is ♥♥♥♥ed up with that thing. (precaution I play on insane and normal zombies are on "run" at daytime.)

1. There is no feedback if you hit it or not except a very silent "ump" when you landed a direct hit.

1.1 It feels like there is no impact AT ALL I don't know if its the animation that kinda cancels half way through instead of swinging a full swing or if its point 1

2. have you like... halved its range? Because I do not hit them if they aren't right in my face and that is not the sense of a sledgehammer. Its a "you don't get close enough" kinda weapon-

3. "glancing blows" feel completely arbitrary. When I'm off by 0.1 mm it doesnt register at all, while sometimes when I have misaimed like 3 Z's away I landed a hit. WTH? :D

Before I could 1v9+ zombies with a sledge on these settings (and not only bc it was a stone sledge) and now I cant kill one before I die. I literally can't. BC I cant hit them anymore. Hell even my the cross was right on top of them, I sometimes wouldn't hit.

Can s1 explain? BC I died like 5 times figuring this out (before I died like 40 times... since I bought this game :D so make of that what you want :D ) and I still have 0 clue how this is supposed to work!

 
I don't know what to tell you. I've been running a sledge almost since Day 1 and absolutely love it. The only recommendation I can make is to have a backup, low stamina melee weapon... but if you play on Insane I'm sure you have already considered that option.

 
Take a while to get used to. Perhaps it is similar as to why i was missing so much with the rocket launcher at first, travel time, or rather animation time in the sense of melee. Haven't really tested it out so very much, but i do hit more consisently now, both with rocketlauncher and sledge.

 
On every other Alpha build I've used primarily melee weapons excluding the horde night. This one though I've had to switch to solely using ranged weapons because melee is almost impossible. I'm not sure what they did to the game but it really sucks that I can't do a melee build anymore.

 
Take a while to get used to. Perhaps it is similar as to why i was missing so much with the rocket launcher at first, travel time, or rather animation time in the sense of melee. Haven't really tested it out so very much, but i do hit more consisently now, both with rocketlauncher and sledge.
Click to expand...
well... gonna try tomorrow again... but even if I would hit consistently, there is no... whatever you call it when you have swung something to max point and it just continues with its force... and there is no real feedback on if you have hit or not.

Will play on warrior for now and set walking speed to normal and see if that helps any in figuring this out.

 
Melee is my one gripe with a18. They fixed a lot of the things that made me just get bored of a17 so fast, so I'm happy it's gone in a more positive direction.

However, with Melee, I use clubs, iron clubs, and will try the bat if I ever find enough bat parts (those parts really waste inventory space please reconsider these things - also let us scrap the ones we don't want to use or melt them in a forge - which doesn't work currently), but I find I'm swinging right through zombies or hit the ground when I clearly had the x on their head, and point blank attacks completely miss, which is especially frustrating with vultures. Again clearly the club is going through the zombie but no hit detection is registered.

Attacks where I'm trying to clear out a window or a door, a zombie on the other side will sometimes get the glancing blow, which it shouldn't I haven't gotten through the block yet.

This all comes back to please for the love of all the gods in the fictionverse, put in a shove, a two handed - weapon sideways good ole fashion shove to stagger them back. a wimp swing and and a power swing isn't engaging play.

It took me some time to get used to the swing, albeit I still miss a fair amount, and at night when they run good luck, it's really hit or miss. literally.

I don't know if they tried the ray cast with this, or they just threw a random glancing blow chance with it. I'm not sure how it plays out, perhaps the pimps can enlighten us. But I'm constantly hitting the wall, the ground, grass, or nothing when it was a clear, or should have been a clear hit. I've been known to raise my voice at the monitor a time or two when this happens. I don't like doing that. Please fix it.

Also the zombies sometimes do that dang spin on the ground to stand up thing. it's not all the time thankfully, but it's happened enough times that I'm mentioning it.

But beyond this, the pimps have done a great job of making the game more fun again. I haven't done farming or many of the later stuff, only gotten to day 7 a couple times.

I'm sure they'll keep tweaking it until melee feels right, but I agree, the attack doesn't have a "feel" to it. The zombie either staggers or you're not sure you connect. I've used firearms more in this alpha than I have in the previous 3 or 4 combined because melee is so unreliable.

 
I agree with melee being off. Range seems to be decreased on all weapons, while the spear hits from a mile away.

 
I agree with melee being off. Range seems to be decreased on all weapons, while the spear hits from a mile away.
Click to expand...
Please TFPs... with Z's landing cheap shots over 300 miles, bad internet connection not included, rage mode and all this...

can we please get better range on weapons again?

I only tested the sledge... but it felt like I had better range with my torch and fist than with a fking sledgehammer.

 
well... gonna try tomorrow again... but even if I would hit consistently, there is no... whatever you call it when you have swung something to max point and it just continues with its force..
Click to expand...
“Follow through”

 
I agree with most of the op's post. Melee needs to feel like your hitting a ball of a tee. If you air swing it "follows through" and clearly misses. If you make a hit it needs weight behind it to get the tactile feedback hence the animation stopping. Glancing blows are a great adea and the right directional move, but typically all they are is a early or late hit with both negating any chance of a solid hit once it engages.

So basically all normal attacks need experimenting on semi-full swing through with glancing blows interrupting ether early or late and a solid hit landing dead center which will give the exact feedback needed on which way you've hit the target. The baseball bats current normal attack finishes past the crosshair slightly and not close to the tip and doesn't feel right when it lands but other weapons feel pretty good only if you land that solid center hit.

Power attacks however have a chance to move through multiple targets for bonuses(using glancing swings) rather than it being known as typically "more damage", so the animation interruption could be different for this and fleshed out through other weapons for doing different things(eg the spear being thrown).

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The sledge and spear seems to give very little feedback on hits. Even head shots that stagger sometimes there's not enough audio feedback. Other melee seems fine.

 
I agree with melee being off. Range seems to be decreased on all weapons, while the spear hits from a mile away.
Click to expand...
Yeah the sledge defentely has less range than I remember. Lets see in 17.4 the range was 2.9 blocks. in A18 its 2.6. There has to be something else going on because 0.3 of a block is not that big range wise, but its range feels MUCH shorter, like about 1 block range to me. The range is not the only problem I am finding melee hit boxes to be screwy as all hell. Many times I clearly should have gotten a headshot and it goes thru the zombie doing no damage. I mean it clearly physically just went thru his head but it didn't register, now if I was playing multiplayer I could blame this on latency if I am not the host, however I was playing single player when I noticed it. Least you picked a good weapon, the only viable weapons for melee past nomad are sledge followed by clubs, the rest just don't really got the crowd control you need to melee effectivly in A18.

When a18 first came out in experimental iirc I made a post asking the devs to fix the melee hitboxes because they were screwed up to all hell, glad to see I am not the only one who is noticing this. Hits even at close range (1 block or less) that would have connected in A17.4, were either not registering or, counting as a glancing hit, even thou the crosshair was directly on the center of their face/forehead.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree with most of the op's post. Melee needs to feel like your hitting a ball of a tee. If you air swing it "follows through" and clearly misses. If you make a hit it needs weight behind it to get the tactile feedback hence the animation stopping. Glancing blows are a great adea and the right directional move, but typically all they are is a early or late hit with both negating any chance of a solid hit once it engages.
So basically all normal attacks need experimenting on semi-full swing through with glancing blows interrupting ether early or late and a solid hit landing dead center which will give the exact feedback needed on which way you've hit the target. The baseball bats current normal attack finishes past the crosshair slightly and not close to the tip and doesn't feel right when it lands but other weapons feel pretty good only if you land that solid center hit.

Power attacks however have a chance to move through multiple targets for bonuses(using glancing swings) rather than it being known as typically "more damage", so the animation interruption could be different for this and fleshed out through other weapons for doing different things(eg the spear being thrown).
Click to expand...
I dunno, I don't see much point to glancing blows they deal virtually 0 damage, I guess they are sort of useful with the sledgehammer though, as glancing blows can also cause the knockdown blunt weapons can do it seems. I wish when the devs test this stuff they test it on a difficulty higher than the new default which the new default is adventurer which is like super easy mode. Try the diff melee builds on survialist or insane, you'll see most weapons other than sledge and clubs aren't really that viable. If your testing stuff on adventurer thats silly, as the player gets a damage bonus vs zombies on that mod, and the zombies don't even hit for full damage. At least test on nomad, or better warrior to really balance things out.

 
The sledge and spear seems to give very little feedback on hits. Even head shots that stagger sometimes there's not enough audio feedback. Other melee seems fine.
Click to expand...
The melee feedback has never been great in 7dtd, but its never been this bad either. TFP really messed up in terms of melee in a18 I feel, the guns feel great, better than they ever did, but the melee really just doesn't feel right at all anymore. Most of the melee weapons other than sledge/club just are near worthless late game, as late game its more about crowd control than raw damage, and no other weapon other than sledge/club really offers it as well. Fists is close to a club it'd be the 3rd best but its a distant 3rd due to having less range than a zombie. Knives/spear/stun baton I'd not even consider using as they are just so bad, i've tried them. Knife's deep cuts perk does not even stack the bleeds properly. single bleed was 1hp/s, deep cuts lv 3 drops a stack of 4 on a target on power attack, but somehow thats only 2hp/s, Pretty sure it should be 4 hp/s.

Spear is just ugh, throwing away your weapon is a stupid move imo, looks cool as hell, but when you think of it, you'd be an idiot to do that irl.

Stun Baton I am hoping is just a very early april fool's joke by TFP as its by far the worst melee weapon in the entire game.

 
The melee feedback has never been great in 7dtd, but its never been this bad either. TFP really messed up in terms of melee in a18 I feel, the guns feel great, better than they ever did, but the melee really just doesn't feel right at all anymore. Most of the melee weapons other than sledge/club just are near worthless late game, as late game its more about crowd control than raw damage, and no other weapon other than sledge/club really offers it as well. Fists is close to a club it'd be the 3rd best but its a distant 3rd due to having less range than a zombie. Knives/spear/stun baton I'd not even consider using as they are just so bad, i've tried them. Knife's deep cuts perk does not even stack the bleeds properly. single bleed was 1hp/s, deep cuts lv 3 drops a stack of 4 on a target on power attack, but somehow thats only 2hp/s, Pretty sure it should be 4 hp/s.
Spear is just ugh, throwing away your weapon is a stupid move imo, looks cool as hell, but when you think of it, you'd be an idiot to do that irl.

Stun Baton I am hoping is just a very early april fool's joke by TFP as its by far the worst melee weapon in the entire game.
Click to expand...
I like a lot of what they have done with Melee and guns in 18. I dont feel like its 100% there yet tho.

Melee- Yes the feedback and odd misses that are really hard to believe sometimes and leave me smh. (sledge) But the more I play the less it happens so idk.

Guns- Looking great except 1 thing. The "feature" of locking you into ADS mode once you take a shot in ADS mode. I think this is horrible. Give us back the option to lock into ADS mode, or take away the toggle completely. Manual control is so much more flexible. If we can toggle or not toggle crouch, please let us do it with aiming. Aiming is so much more crucial.

Edit: I have always seen all those other melees as inferior to the club/sledge anyway, so nothing has really changed as far as that goes for me. Spear has its uses sometimes, but havent brought myself to main with it yet because I feel I would need 2 of them on my hotbar for situations where i miss and lose it or, or something crazy happens and I cant pick it up. Or I would still have a sledge on my belt also anyway. And belt/backpack space is even more valuable than before now.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Reading up, Idk about glancing blows doing low damage. I did one on accident that with a sledge that 1 shot two zombies at the same time.. They both died. But that was a rare instance. One snuck up from behind a bookshelf while I was fighting another zombie. I had just started a power swing and they both died. I am pretty sure the glancing hit was vs the fresh zombie too. This was on Survivalist too, I think perked 3 or 4/5. It was pretty cool when it happened.

 
Yeah, it was very strange to make the animation of melee combat worse than it was before, while setting out to improve and having a professional animator who worked on "Doom"....something's wrong here.

 
Im using melee from day 1 (mostly sledgehammer) and have no issues with the hits, the new animation stops in a ugly way yes, but overall im loving melee in A18 its mush more fun with the new mechanisms, those never ever get hit days are over.

 
Im using melee from day 1 (mostly sledgehammer) and have no issues with the hits, the new animation stops in a ugly way yes, but overall im loving melee in A18 its mush more fun with the new mechanisms, those never ever get hit days are over.
Click to expand...
TBF the hits that are "missing" might not actually all be missing. It might be lack of feedback making you think it missed. Or things like the block breaking underneath the zombie when he is ragdoll/stunned makes it seem like you made no contact with the zombie.

But then sometimes during the zombies swing animation or other animation it seems like you 100% hit perfect but no sound or feedback so who knows if there was actually a hit or not. Either way though there is something not quite right about it.

I agree that melee is 100% more fun than it has been with what they added, but there is still some issues.

 
Melee has always been badly coded in 7DtD. In previous alpha's you also had to find weird "sweet spots" to hit, they didn't correspond with the visual feedback on screen at all. It seems like it's been exaggerated in A18.

It feels so dumb having a huge sledgehammer just whiffing through zombies that are right in your face, trying to chew it off. Barely being able to hit a crawler without it biting your ankles off is also weird.

Like previous alphas, once you figure out where to keep your crosshairs while the animation plays etc., it becomes usable, but it never feels right. I always end up just using guns because they're way more reliable and fun than the other options, this game really needs to flesh out it's first person combat if it wants to have "builds" that are all viable and fun.

 
Glancing blows a definitely an issue with not landing hits. I'm not sure how its set up but its like its not updating with enough points on the arc to register hits smoothly. This goes hand in hand with missing targets completely especially in large groups and also causes artifacts on hitting targets beside the crosshair and outside the arc.

Video with timestamps:

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top