PC What happened to the Behemoth?

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Nexian

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Did this zombie ever make it into the game? I saw videos for it ages ago. Was it just too fiddly?

 
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As I understand it the size of the thing was causing it pathing issues they couldn't resolve.
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Definitely, developers were stopped by technical problems and not common sense.

 
I just liked the idea of it. Large, easily hit target, lots of hp. Maybe it gets some ominous music on a horde night.

It moves slowly, with big footstep sounds. You want to take it down before it reaches your base and rips holes in it.

 
I wish we could have the behemoth instead of the demolisher. Don´t get me wrong, as a challenge the demolisher is fine. But he turns this game into a repair fest.

 
I wish we could have the behemoth instead of the demolisher. Don´t get me wrong, as a challenge the demolisher is fine. But he turns this game into a repair fest.
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The Behemoth would be no different. It was announced as a 5m high zombie that destroys several blocks with one blow.

The only advantage over the demolisher would be that there would be no hidden damage. When the demolisher explodes, it also damages blocks that are covered by other blocks.

 
And that would be a lot easier to handle when repairing. @RipClaw

If we could just crank up the number of zombies to 32 per person without getting horrible lag we would just mod the demolisher out. Enough challenge to deal with 96 sprinting Z´s at once. Or 160 if all are online at the same time. But that´s not gonna happen sadly. And i doubt that optimization will make this better.

 
As I understand it the size of the thing was causing it pathing issues they couldn't resolve.
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that kinda sucks cuz he looked really cool.

hell he didn't have to be as big as a building, IMO he would be Scary if he was just as big and thick as the demolisher.

maybe a special ability like a Roar that lures zombies , A ground pound and a Stomp

but oh well, maybe his model could be reused for a Charging zombie?? or something

 
I wish we could have the behemoth instead of the demolisher. Don´t get me wrong, as a challenge the demolisher is fine. But he turns this game into a repair fest.
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well if demolisher explodes ... its basically punishment because you failed to deal with it

be a little creative

- as long as theres way to your base(ignoring doors) demolisher wont destroy stuff

- layered electric fences on this path make demolisher harmlessly stand in front of you

- penetrator perk is extremely powerfull against military /utility / demolisher ( 3/5 penetrator gives you 41% more damage to demolisher with any gun /ammo)

- dont use shotguns on them .. ever

- multiple dart traps as last line of defense kill any demolisher in seconds + they cant make him explode

- even if you happen to hit the button .... try to burst them down ... if you manage to kill him before he explode you saved the day ( dead demo wont explode)

- good approach is to get solid smg mod it for accuracy/less recoil/drum magazine and save 9 mm ammo for blood moons using 7,62/shotgun/magnum .. for general gameplay because 9mm ammo is cheap /easily obtained(compared to AK/M60 ammo), smg can be extremely accurate + have basically no recoil for close range so you can happily spray in correct height to pop head after head with no risk of exploding demolisher

demolishers may look scary but they can die literally in few bullets on warrior /survivalist + its always nice to make them throught corridor / ramp where they wont do as much harm even if they managed to explode far from anything valuable

for behemoth that design overall was bad if you make 3 block wide zombie ... it wont fit anywhere and be easily stopped by 1 block as pillar with 2 block gaps so people would just have such " simple cheap wall" around that will be ignored by all zombies but keep behemoth busy waiting for bullets + overall theres nothing too special on him just a bullet sponge with splash damage nothing else like spiting + explosions for copsm always running footbal zombie, jumping spiders or very unique demolishers where you have to aim :D

in ideal case every zombie should have something to step out crowd or atleast special ones... now it doesnt really matter if its hazmat cheerleader nurse stripper ... we have already quite bit of zombies that are basically 99% same with different model

its good they scrapped that idea in favor of bandits ... as ranged enemies definitely add more to gameplay especially if there will be some kind of raids from them as well + poi for them is quite interesting (walled off area similar to traders with guard towers etc)

And that would be a lot easier to handle when repairing. @RipClaw
If we could just crank up the number of zombies to 32 per person without getting horrible lag we would just mod the demolisher out. Enough challenge to deal with 96 sprinting Z´s at once. Or 160 if all are online at the same time. But that´s not gonna happen sadly. And i doubt that optimization will make this better.
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well amount of zombies is just blood moon problem with a18 is how empty world is - compared to a16 /a17 theres close to none wandering zombies / hordes world feels nice and happy but extremely empty definitely not as survival game

for reusing his model ... it was very unfinished / unpolished with quite awkward animations its basically half done so they would need to work on him alot if they wanted to reuse that model but it could be definitely nice to have similar "boss" guarding loot few random green boys

but you are right perfomance is getting worse alpha after alpha even if your hw handling it well .. engine doesnt leading to funny stuff from "afking zombies" over pathfinding issues , flying blocks stuck in air if theres too many things to fall( try to destroy dishong tower basement at once... whole tower can fly or "fake empty blocks in strange places" ... ever seen sinks instead windows ? :D i think most would even sacrifice some visuals .. if it made game handle more zombies at once

 
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well if demolisher explodes ... its basically punishment because you failed to deal with it
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The demolisher explodes when the button on its chest is pressed. This can be happen through other zombies, through traps or through the player. It has nothing to do whether the player cannot deal with it.

be a little creative
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This has nothing to do with a lack of creativity. If we could build bases without any restrictions, we would have completely different ways to deal with the Demolisher.

However, there are limitations of the game. For example, the bigger you build the base the more lags you have in the horde night. Therefore you have to build the base compact so that the horde night is not a slideshow.

- as long as theres way to your base(ignoring doors) demolisher wont destroy stuff
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In Alpha 17.2 the AI was changed so that the zombies smash through the wall if the path is too long. Maze bases had become useless. You have to be extremely careful that the path is not too long.

- layered electric fences on this path make demolisher harmlessly stand in front of you
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He can still explode if you accidentally hit the button. In a melee base, that can easily happen with a hammer.

And if you accidentally switch to the gun loaded with HP ammo, the demolisher will go boom instead of getting killed. Happened to Kage848 twice.

- penetrator perk is extremely powerfull against military /utility / demolisher ( 3/5 penetrator gives you 41% more damage to demolisher with any gun /ammo)
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Apparently, they modified the Penetrator Perk. Originally, it only worked for the hunting rifle and the sniper rifle. Now it partially works for all weapons that have AP ammo loaded. It gives you more armor penetration for other weapons but you can not hit multiple zombies at once.

- dont use shotguns on them .. ever
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I use the shotgun but I loaded it with slugs and it is a beast. Slugs are now AP ammo.

With boomstick on 5/5 and the right Shotgun Messiah books you can often kill the demolisher with a single head shot because you have a high chance of dismemberment if the target is closer than 3m. And you get a 20% bonus if the demolisher still has all his HP.

- multiple dart traps as last line of defense kill any demolisher in seconds + they cant make him explode
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Dart traps are pretty much the only trap you can still use. All other electrical traps can set off the explosion. However, you need many dart traps to kill a demolisher and you have to spend a lot of time in the mine. My base with dart traps and electric fences uses about 90000 iron for each horde.

- even if you happen to hit the button .... try to burst them down ... if you manage to kill him before he explode you saved the day ( dead demo wont explode)
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Does not always work. If other zombies are shielding the demolisher, you're wasting your ammo.

- good approach is to get solid smg mod it for accuracy/less recoil/drum magazine and save 9 mm ammo for blood moons using 7,62/shotgun/magnum .. for general gameplay because 9mm ammo is cheap /easily obtained(compared to AK/M60 ammo), smg can be extremely accurate + have basically no recoil for close range so you can happily spray in correct height to pop head after head with no risk of exploding demolisher

demolishers may look scary but they can die literally in few bullets on warrior /survivalist + its always nice to make them throught corridor / ramp where they wont do as much harm even if they managed to explode far from anything valuable
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The SMG has a rather low base damage compared to the M60. Furthermore the M60 can hold over 100 rounds of ammunition with the drum magazine. If the explosion has already been triggered, reloading is a problem for any weapon.

A problem is also that the button of the demolisher is on the same level as the heads of most other zombies. So it can easily happen that you accidentally trigger the explosion when trying to kill zombies with headshots.

The most annoying thing after a demolisher explodes is that you have to repair blocks that are actually covered. I had to build a maintenance tunnel under my base to get to some places I can't fix otherwise. Is not very helpful for stability to dig tunnels under the base.

 
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Do not siderail this discussion into a discussion about Demolishers. We already have an active thread for that.

 
I'm glad that the idea of the Behemoth has been dropped. A horde is about every single enemy being weak and overwhelming you by numbers. That's for example the principle behind horde games like "They are billions".

I know that in a voxel game you will never be able to have such a mass of enemies but that doesn't mean you have to create a 5m zombie that ploughs through the base like a bulldozer.

By default I play with 32 zombies at the same time and that is already a size that gives you the impression of a real horde. Therefore the game should be optimized to get as many zombies as possible on the screen at the same time so that the player gets the impression of a real horde.

 
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