What happened to 4k maps?

[theFlu]

And such an acceptable map is possible even with the current RWG, and even could be made guaranteed by adding this crude pseudo code routine:
-----------------------
for 30 tries:
do a RWG map
repeat if all traders are in it

If still not all traders in it, tell the users his parameters are too far off for RWG to generate a valid map, does he accept to have an invalid map?

That'd be pretty horrible UX .. map generation takes 2-60 minutes, and you might just get a "can't do it" at the end. What it should honestly be, is a test step in QA.. 3 tries, no map => no release. Fix the settings / generation before publishing it.

3 tries, not 30. Because even with 3, some unlucky user is running into 30. And probably the actual test should be 30 maps, no failures, at the known worst settings.

I don't think that has much to do with progression.

Tomato, tomato; it's all progression

Oops, It's a map thread, so I'll post my distracted ramblings in a spoiler...

Spoiler: Oops, sorry

As you can, by design, loot or craft most of the stuff, slowing down crafting progress 'enough' would just make looting more powerful.
Atm, the best route is basically to:
- Save up parts until you can make your legendary of the thing
- At best, consider if you think it's likely you can afford to craft a tier upgrade, without sacrificing the Q6

If crafting progress slowed down a Lot (and looting weapons essentially disabled), you could land in a place where you get enough mats to make the costs trivial .. but they still wouldn't be big upgrades so skipping would still be tempting.

I don't think the midtiers can be made worth crafting with the current setup.

Couple ways I can see people crafting more tiers is to:
- make looted items different from crafted ones. So you'll make "survivor rifles" and loot "marksman rifles", pretty much the same in power, but some mechanical differences. You'll still "lose progress" from the looted sidegrade, but it feels a little different as the two don't compete.
- simply force the tiers. Pistol Q1 costs 1 handgun part, Pistol Q2 costs a Q1 Pistol and a handgun part (same total cost for Q2, and if you want the Q6, you'll have to obtain a Q5)

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

repeat if all traders are in it

Why not just write code to ensure all traders are in it in the first place? Prioritize the traders, iow. Then, there would be no need for re-rolling 30 times or more until you finally get a small map with all involved.

the minimal setting for flatness could be increased the smaller a map is to ensure more successes

Not a bad idea. Would probably prevent a lot of the weirdness I'm seeing in the 4096 rolled for testing.

Someone from TFP said a few years ago (AFAIK) that they are not sure how much of the story will also be added to RWG but they will try to add it.

One moderator has subsequently said it would definitely be Navezgane only. You're saying the plan is to add it, at least, partially to RWG. So, I gather no one but TFP really knows TFP's thinking on that.

It's been my impression some changes toward linear, including both Navezgane and RWG, have been to accommodate the story but I also get the impression TFP has realized that isn't necessary for the story as there has been discussion on the forums regarding keeping story mode separate, as in other survival games, given it would get very old, very quickly on RWG maps most of the playerbase appears to be playing back to back runs on. (Obviously, story mode and environmental storytelling are not one and the same.)

Some survival games do separate an overarching story; others don't, depending what kind of game it is. See Subnautica, for example. It's overarching story is incluced via PDAs accompanying the life pods, Degasi habitats, etc. littering the hand-crafted game world, but it's still an open world game world due to the fact that only a select few, carefully placed along a "route," trigger progression of the storyline and the player is led to them via radio -- should they choose to answer the radio. Players don't have to answer the radio, especially for long periods of time, while they just go off and do their own thing. Others, e.g. Green Hell, separate the story from a static, handcrafted map completely. I think it depends what kind of game (and map) it is which is appropriate.

Aside from locking down the traders, I'd think most of the linearization has to do with biome progression rather than story progression, e.g. TFP perhaps wants to present the biomes themselves one at a time in order of difficulty, expecting players to build "forward bases" in each to use while they're there, essentially. If that's the case, I honestly don't think that's necessary (or, even desirable*), either, and negates the "open world" feel. The traders were already introducing them in order of difficulty and that worked even when traders were randomized in RWG maps. Traders appear to have been locked down for story mode in both Navezgane and RWG as each would be affiliated with either the Duke or Noah depending where they appeared. If the plan now is to separate story mode from RWG, that obviously wouldn't be necessary.

*As for desirability, this game has something that makes putting up anything but a little storage, etc. in biomes other than the one chosen for the player's permanent base undesirable: horde night. I would think very few players, if any, are going to want to build permanent horde bases in every biome, but the game seems to be encouraging that.

I don't think any of the linearization elements of the RWG maps were necessary. Isn't the game supposed to be a "go wherever you want, do whatever you want" kind of open world? If biome difficulty is a concern, I'd honestly trust the players -- including new players -- to realize pretty quickly, "Hmm. Maybe I shouldn't go/have gone in there just yet." New players would obviously be severely underlevelled for it and face the consequences immediately. Meanwhile, veterans would go to whichever they like, knowing how to handle being underlevelled.