PC What do you HOPE to see with the attribute system (without complete scrapping or over

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Limdood

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I'd like to see a system where no attribute feels like it HAS to be invested in to have a fun, viable character.

The current builds that have been coming out have consistently made intelligence, and to a lesser extent, strength, feel like you (in SP) or at least one member of your team (in MP) HAD to invest considerably.

I'd love to see super melee builds that ignore perception/ sneaking. Hyper stealth builds that don't bother with strength or endurance and take a slow and steady approach with low risk poi clears. Scavenger builds that focus on looting and buying and mostly ignore intelligence.

I also want to give TFP some big credit with one of their less visible changes in the last build. With the variety of loot quality from traders, complete with mods now available, a "no crafting perks" playthru is almost viable. And i see that as a really good thing for the game. I think they need 3 more steps in that regard to get there all the way though. First is to fix the randomized mod slots on trader loot (dumping 15k dukes on a level 6 steel pick with bunker buster, only to find out it only had 1 mod slot...yeowch), next is to have sufficient ammo to defend available to purchase. Ammo isn't cheap, but if I can't craft it (it's locked behind mostly high int perks), and i can't loot enough, then i can't really play that playstyle after all. Last is to make vehicles available somehow from high end quests or very expensive from traders. A no intelligence playstyle would need to be mobile, and no vehicle is crippling.

Just my thoughts on what I'd like to see from the attributes. I feel that I'd everyone feels they have to take something, they kinda lose the "choice" implied by a system like that.

What do the rest of you think about the attributes and where they are or could be heading to really make them reflect the game you'd like to see?

 
I probably can't articulate exactly how I feel. Things don't seem quite right. Not that the game is unplayable but it's making the game a bit of a drag for me.

I don't really mind the new system as it is now in theory, I just really wish I had more points. Even a bonus point every few lvls would make the game a lot better for me.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same.

 
I probably can't articulate exactly how I feel. Things don't seem quite right. Not that the game is unplayable but it's making the game a bit of a drag for me.
I don't really mind the new system as it is now in theory, I just really wish I had more points. Even a bonus point every few lvls would make the game a lot better for me.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same.
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I agree with the bonus points. Maybe an extra 1 every 5 levels, or 3 extra every 10 levels. As a SP only it is always a struggle to balance it out, especially now with MIT graduate zombies.

 
Still feels like learn by doing was a better system, letting you focus where you wanted and ignore the rest. Probably needed adjusted for slower lving but otherwise worked much better and you could use points to target exactly where you wanted. Not really against the new system but the old one was pretty seamless and well done.

 
Still feels like learn by doing was a better system, letting you focus where you wanted and ignore the rest. Probably needed adjusted for slower lving but otherwise worked much better and you could use points to target exactly where you wanted. Not really against the new system but the old one was pretty seamless and well done.
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Agreed, either that or like the other two said with at least getting an extra point or something here and there especially now that the perks cost several points.

 
Well, since you all are saying you are feeling the sting of this in Single Player why not make it happen?

F1

giveselfxp 10000

Esc

Every third or fifth level as the mood strikes you. No need for a degree in modding. It can be handled all ingame. Instead of speculating about it really test it out and see if it works well. Adjust the amount up or down as needed to get that extra point. Since there's no longer level gating it won't really make a difference that your increasing in levels faster. Tougher gamestage could be the price you pay.

 
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Still feels like learn by doing was a better system.
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I completely disagree. Maybe the idea of learning by doing is nice in theory, but in almost every game it's done, and in A16, it was nothing but cheese.

In A16 there were several problems with it, and I disliked it so much that I only played thru A16 once to higher levels and set the game aside til the next update.

For one, "learn by doing' encourages players to do really stupid things like craft garbage constantly just to get skill/xp. Ex, we would spend most of our time at night crafting and salving crap. If I was "the weapons guy" I'd make dozens of clubs or bows or something, scrap, repeat - to push my skill and get xp. We'd all craft frames or something constantly while doing stuff during the day to get xp and skill. One would get an auger and dig holes tunnels to get stupid amounts of xp. This was also before looting had any danger to it so you could race around the map speed looting everything to get xp and skill. All cheese. With extra cheese on top.

Did you have to play cheesily? No, but cheese systems encourage cheese behaviors. In A16 you got way too much xp for doing simple things that involved zero challenge too.

The other problem with the system was that it made all the skills very blah. Some skills were really good, most were meh.

IMO almost every about A17 is better and especially the skill system, although I very much dislike the recent change to force specialization. I'd prefer specialization to be a choice, not forced. 7DTD involves several elements and this new tweak makes it so that you can't enjoy them equally as you level up - you pretty much have to be a crafter and gimp yourself for combat or be combat focused and not craft at all. Far less fun than the earlier builds where you could have a solid combat build and do some crafting too.

Even so, the A17 skill system is vastly superior. You get xp for everything you do. You bump the skills of your choosing. You don't have to do idiotic unnatural unfun things to skill up. You can focus on playing the game and enjoying the content and not worry about stupid stuff like, oh geen, I want tier 4 tools so I better make 1,000,000 stone axes to skill up my tool making.

The only thing I'm not a huge fan of with A17 is how the stamina cap works, which also got made worse with recent builds (and I dunno, maybe people should complain less because if this is how the devs react...stam was already fooked and as punishment they made it significantly worse), because I'm not a fan of having to micro manage food constantly to keep stam up. Plus there's almost no point in better foods because you'd have to be insane to allow your max stam to drop low enough to benefit from them. But the worst part is that as a whole, A17 is a ton of fun - the food/stam micro is not fun.

As someone who's played since before Steam release, I think A17 is by far the best version of the game yet. I liked the earlier version of skills/atts better, but even with the new lube requiring setup it's vastly superior to A16. I don't like the stam system but it does make one think about food and drink more than before.

 
Another quick solution - edit quests.xml to give 25 reward points (or how ever many) instead of 5 points for the end of the starter quest chain. Gives you a head start. *ALWAYS BACK UP YOU XML file before changing it though*

We did this for our server as the first week with minimal stamina or anything was draining.

Overall the required extra points for the attributes is too slow - definitely need more bonus points or to lower the requirement.

I think it kicks up to 2 points at level 4 now? I think it shouldn't until the higher levels.

Over learn vs perks argument, some things I'd prefer to be learnt by practising

eg general archery skill, crafting speed/quality skill, running speed, stamina. Ie things that if you practice in the real world you get better or fitter.

But things like making a forge or ability to make bikes etc should be perks as they are learnt skills rather than honed by practising.

 
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I'd like to see specialisation in one of the attributes be more meaningful.

In general the system should stay as it is now, with cost for levels in each attribute increasing geometrically as you get higher level in them, and perks unlocking at different attribute levels.

But at the very start of the game you should have to choose an attribute to specialise in. All the other attributes should then have their cost doubled.

That way, you'd actually find your chosen attribute (and its associated perks) easier to get and available at lower level than other attributes and their perks. It would make specialising much more meaningful.

 
67.08% out of 320.2% doesn't seem like much to me. About 1 for every 5.
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seems like u got the numbers wrong here

401 Voters total

and 194 voted for I prefer the old A16 perk/skill system (combination points/auto increase)

and 132 voted for I prefer the new A17 perk system (points only)

u can count % on that :)

 
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67.08% out of 320.2% doesn't seem like much to me. About 1 for every 5.
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Had you actually read anything about that poll or in that thread, you would know that the first 3 options combine for 100%. 32.92% of people voted for the "I like the new A17 perk system best" option, leaving 67.08% of the people voting that they would rather have the A16 perk system back or to have a strictly "learn by doing" system. So 33% don't mind the new broken system, but more than twice that amount want older perk systems back in place.

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seems like u got the numbers wrong here
401 Voters total

and 194 voted for I prefer the old A16 perk/skill system (combination points/auto increase)

and 132 voted for I prefer the new A17 perk system (points only)

u can count % on that :)
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You're forgetting the 91 votes who want "learn by doing". Like I said before, I, and 67.08% of the people in that poll want the A16 or learn by doing system back in place. The A17 system is garbage.

 
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You're forgetting the 91 votes who want "learn by doing". Like I said before, I, and 67.08% of the people in that poll want the A16 or learn by doing system back in place. The A17 system is garbage.
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ok i missed that but also we have to take in account that the 132 voted for I prefer the new A17 perk system (points only)

was the old system with Lvl Gates. we never had a poll for the current system

 
ok i missed that but also we have to take in account that the 132 voted for I prefer the new A17 perk system (points only)was the old system with Lvl Gates. we never had a poll for the current system
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The current system is still gated behind attributes and prerequisites, which is nothing like A16 or "learn by doing". And now that they've broken things even worse than the b199 initial exp. release, I'd venture a guess that even more than 67.08% would prefer A16 or learn by doing over the current A17 b233 system.

 
Remove recipes from the perk system, trees should be (construction, mining, hunting, melee, crafting, looting, etc...), switch to learning by doing.

 
I'm fine with how perks function to give you improvements to your abilities. Where the issue I have is the number of points needed for the upper levels. As with many things nerfed in A17, its not the single nerf that's the issue. Its the piled up nerfs. Ok, slower to get to many things we got used to in A16, that's fine. But then nerf loot, nerf building, nerf food, nerf stamina and it starts to pile up. Then like last night I'm trying to find food and water, just a simple wood grocery store I was having to kill 15 zombies and what do I get, 2 cans sham 1 beer and 4 empty glass jars. The food I burned killing all the zombies was higher than the reward to go into the building not to count arrows and repair to club.

 
gotta love how 1 total response in this thread is on topic...

The attribute system is what we've got now, for better or worse.

So...WHAT are you looking for within the attribute system. The person who wants to see a bigger effect from specialization into one attribute certainly has a point...it'd be really cool to see a big benefit from being "the strength guy" or "the perception guy."

I'd also like to see some focus on single player progression. Specialization in MP is pretty cool, but it feels like most people are feeling pigeonholed in SP into the same builds every time, with only the most minor variations. Even if its an option, some vanilla support for a single player experience that at least resembles the MP progression would be awesome.

 
gotta love how 1 total response in this thread is on topic...
The attribute system is what we've got now, for better or worse.

So...WHAT are you looking for within the attribute system. The person who wants to see a bigger effect from specialization into one attribute certainly has a point...it'd be really cool to see a big benefit from being "the strength guy" or "the perception guy."

I'd also like to see some focus on single player progression. Specialization in MP is pretty cool, but it feels like most people are feeling pigeonholed in SP into the same builds every time, with only the most minor variations. Even if its an option, some vanilla support for a single player experience that at least resembles the MP progression would be awesome.
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Sorry to stay off topic, but I have to agree with others, learn by doing was a far superior and more enjoyable system for me as well.

 
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