What A17 is actually missing... IMO... Loot Boxes

J

Jackelmyer

New member
So... this came about from a discussion in another thread. But I think I know, at least for me, the literal thing missing from A17.

There's more of a grindy feel and that's been noted all over the place. And I think it's because...

We don't have loot boxes anymore. And... We kinda used to have them. Kinda.

Hold on. Bare with me.

Loot Boxes: Regardless how you acquired them, they're a gambling mechanism. You open one up, most of the time you get garbage. But eeeevery now and then, BAM! You get super awesome!

7D2D A16.4 and prior Loot: You open up any container, some were better than others (treasure map), and... Most of the time it was garbage (especially mid-late game), sometimes, it was BAM! (early-mid game). Minibike books? Hell Yes! Auger Blade!?! Hell yes! Bunch of other stuff.

And... It feels like we lost that. In the first week or two I've pretty much found all my guns. And then... I start adding mods... and... it's all incremental...

Nothing but incremental change is literally the definition of GRIND. And... That's pretty much all we have now...




And just to be clear, we do need some grind. Actually, there kinda should be a fair amount. But we also need WOOT and BAM! moments. Have to have those or... it's just grind tediousness.

I'd add that we also had a gear system that like... most... major games used. Colored Gear with meaning. Purple is essentially epic gear everywhere in most games with loot. We... lost that with A17. Which, when you opened up a loot box (any 7D2D container) you're BAM! factor varied as well. BAM! My last sniper rifle part! BAM! My last sniper rifle part AND it's PURPLE! ZOMG!

So... I mentioned bringing back gun parts. Maybe not...

Maybe bring back books for some things. Like say the 4x4 and the Hog bike. That'd be cool.

Maybe make weapon drops more rare. Add in more weapon mod drops. And it kinda gets is back to the weapon part system. Kinda. You'll have a bunch of parts but you still need that blasted weapon.

And bring back weapon quality by color.

Maybe this will make us feel a little more like we have loot boxes again. And bring back some of the actual feel that we need to hunt stuff down.

 
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Yeah, we need some incentive late game because the ammo cost to loot a POI is not proportionate to the returns.

A good start will simply be to increase the amount of certain items as such ammo, glue, repair kits that randomly appear in containers based on gamestage. Your gamestage goes up, the zombies get harder in the POIs, you use a lot more stuff, but you do not get more stuff to replace it. You have a greater chance based on gamestage to get some items over others, or higher quality items and mods, but not quantity. Again, we need quantity to go up, not just the probability... it already does that and it's not enough.

They got rid of stainless steel, and that's a shame. Stainless Steel Polish could have been a late game POI-exclusive item. I would be glad to dump some ammo into a POI late game with high probability of getting that stuff and slowly improving my base.

 
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Yeah, we need some incentive late game because the ammo cost to loot a POI is not proportionate to the returns.
A good start will simply be to increase the amount of certain items such ammo, glue, repair kits that randomly appear in containers based on gamestage. Your gamestage goes up, the zombies get harder in the POIs, you use a lot more stuff, but you do not get more stuff to replace it. You have a greater chance based on gamestage to get some items over others, or higher quality items and mods, but not quantity. Again, we need quantity to go up, not just the probability... it already does that and it's not enough.

They got rid of stainless steel, and that's a shame. Stainless Steel Polish could have been a late game POI-exclusive item. I would be glad to dump some ammo into a POI late game with high probability of getting that stuff and slowly improving my base.
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Even that still feels kinda incremental to me.

I miss the... "Omg... Dude... Guess who just got a sniper rifle handle! PWN time!". Or "wtf! I just got the mini bike book on day 1!" Or "This game sucks! I can't ever find the damn mini bike bo..." <book shelf god shines down> "I FOUND! I LOVE THIS GAME! OMG! ZOOM ZOOM TIME!"

lol. May seem silly but it was a fun aspect of the game.

 
Yes, it is not really a solution, but something that would be a step in the right direction. Right now, getting a single awesome and rare item still would not justify the expense of clearing POIs in late game.

 
It's not silly at all and I agree. That's why I hate level scaling, especially in itemization. It's nothing more than a boring artificial way to control the player. But still, there has to be a soft threshold - if you are able to get end-game or chase items at day 1, you will again stop having reasons to continue playing.

They could just soft-gate them in areas/POIs with lootlists that have a chance to spawn these items - still random, improbable and hard, but not impossible to get early on, depending on the recipe/item. Subnautica did it decently when it came to tech progression imo - they could do it even better in a non-fixed world.

 
you want more loot go back to alpha 16 ;) im enjoying the game right now how it is, now you really need to loot every house and survive.

 
I'd add that we also had a gear system that like... most... major games used. Colored Gear with meaning. Purple is essentially epic gear everywhere in most games with loot. We... lost that with A17. Which, when you opened up a loot box (any 7D2D container) you're BAM! factor varied as well. BAM! My last sniper rifle part! BAM! My last sniper rifle part AND it's PURPLE! ZOMG!
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This part is actually easilly fixed, that we get highquality items of good items way too soon. I have no idea why TFP has done it the way they have considering the gated kind of system they are using.

Quality should be removed from the Intellect Trait and made into two different skill traits. Let's call them "Finesse" and "Craftmanship" for lack of a better words.

"Finesse" could still be under Intellect and define the quality level of more complex items crafted, like weapons and scrap-metal and military armor.

"Craftmanship" could be under Strength and define the quality level of tools, early game items and armors such as cloth, hide, leather and iron.

For example.

These skills could then easilly be gated so that you don't outlevel the need to loot gear and weapons. So as to not reach quality level 6 waaay to early just because you are focused on levelling Int-based skills.

It's a no-brainer really. Would solve several QOL and gameplay balance issues in alpha 17.

Maybe bring back books for some things. Like say the 4x4 and the Hog bike. That'd be cool.
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I agree. A few things need to be hard to learn, but some should be found as loot to give more incentives to explore and loot even in late game. So some craftable items need to be rare, and books and recipies are a great way of achieving that. Really miss it.

 
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I do wish they would just make some things not able to be crafted by players. So you either loot it or buy it from a trader. And I know they've mentioned some type of "legendary" tier of stuff, but I think maybe you should only be able to craft up to level 5 stuff. Make level 6 loot/trader only.

The fact that I can craft everything coupled with the fact that quality only really affects durability(other than extra mod slots, big whoop) makes looting for high end stuff useless.

Maybe make weapon/tool/armor mods loot only? There needs to be a reason to keep looting, even mid to late game.

 
Even that still feels kinda incremental to me.
I miss the... "Omg... Dude... Guess who just got a sniper rifle handle! PWN time!". Or "wtf! I just got the mini bike book on day 1!" Or "This game sucks! I can't ever find the damn mini bike bo..." <book shelf god shines down> "I FOUND! I LOVE THIS GAME! OMG! ZOOM ZOOM TIME!"

lol. May seem silly but it was a fun aspect of the game.
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I kinda miss that aspect too especally the books, added a sense of real randomness and such that the game kinda misses now,

 
I'd like to see more Tiers of items as well as higher tiers.

If we have to deal with a dozen radiated zombies in every POI by day 14, we should have gear that allows us to do something about it.

 
When I read the thread title I was like "Someone is now asking for lootboxes? What the actual #$%^? Roland is going to have a breakdown!", and then I read the thread...and I have to say I agree. :)

I do wish they would just make some things not able to be crafted by players. So you either loot it or buy it from a trader. And I know they've mentioned some type of "legendary" tier of stuff, but I think maybe you should only be able to craft up to level 5 stuff. Make level 6 loot/trader only.
The fact that I can craft everything coupled with the fact that quality only really affects durability(other than extra mod slots, big whoop) makes looting for high end stuff useless.

Maybe make weapon/tool/armor mods loot only? There needs to be a reason to keep looting, even mid to late game.
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Also agree with this.

 
When I read the thread title I was like "Someone is now asking for lootboxes? What the actual #$%^? Roland is going to have a breakdown!", and then I read the thread...and I have to say I agree. :)


Also agree with this.
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lol. Sorry Hotpoon. It's just that's what crossed my mind when having a discussion with someone else. And it really does seem like all loot containers in the past were more... loot boxy.

I know. And I don't mean to lead Roland to a stroke. lol.

 
I do wish they would just make some things not able to be crafted by players. So you either loot it or buy it from a trader. And I know they've mentioned some type of "legendary" tier of stuff, but I think maybe you should only be able to craft up to level 5 stuff. Make level 6 loot/trader only.
The fact that I can craft everything coupled with the fact that quality only really affects durability(other than extra mod slots, big whoop) makes looting for high end stuff useless.

Maybe make weapon/tool/armor mods loot only? There needs to be a reason to keep looting, even mid to late game.
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Exactly (except for the mod slot whoop, you do know every filled mod slot gives additional damage, right?).

One vehicle, one weapon and one armor piece only available through scavenging would make a huge difference.

But lets see how legendary stuff changes the equation. Legendary "by definition" can't be craftable and I'm okay with the trader selling such an item for more zeros than your weapon has mod slots.

 
now you really need to loot every house and survive.
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100% false, it's super easy to not loot any of the dungeon POIs, kill zombies out in the open, makes multiple mines to get iron and bullet resources. Then when you level unlock steel just get your barter to 4/5, sell 3 stacks of steel to every trader for a cool 45k Dukes and buy whatever the heck you want. Plus with all the mining done and out of the way you should have as many steel rounds as you want and 20k+ concrete mix ready to roll lol.

 
100% false, it's super easy to not loot any of the dungeon POIs, kill zombies out in the open, makes multiple mines to get iron and bullet resources. Then when you level unlock steel just get your barter to 4/5, sell 3 stacks of steel to every trader for a cool 45k Dukes and buy whatever the heck you want. Plus with all the mining done and out of the way you should have as many steel rounds as you want and 20k+ concrete mix ready to roll lol.
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Maybe former players should play without traders. I really thing traders are game breaker at the moment, making everything easy.

 
Maybe former players should play without traders. I really thing traders are game breaker at the moment, making everything easy.
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I pretty much only use the trader for food now to be honest. I get coin from selling steel and then use all the world vending machines. In my SP streaming playthrough I took over a Fire Department building, 3 vending machines. I completely removed the garage and am building a base on the existing asphalt slab there.

 
You are absolutely right. Just type "F1" followed by "giveselfxp 10000000" and you can play such a game today :cocksure:
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I thought it was extremely obvious, and it feels weird to even have to say this, but removing progression doesn't make everything more fun either.

Maybe I should put this way: "progression rates don't have to define how fun a game is".

 
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