Well, the jars do get a comeback it seems.

[pApA^LeGBa]

I doubt that. 4 dew collectors cost about 400 polymers.

If you focus on it, it´s possible, i tried once how many i can get going in the first two days. There is polymer literally everywhere and you still get enough other stuff, just loot houses like you would anyways, get every pile of those small brown boxes, every tire, every plastic trashcan, blinds, trash bags etc. Ofc it slows you down a bit, but that doesn´t really effect you that much, still enough time until the first horde.

About what i want for water survival: Anything that isn´t just a time eater, but at least a bit of a challenge.

 

[Syphon583]

I really hope that isn't what they do. I don't want to use jars at all. If they make it so that you have no choice but to use jars even if you're using a dew collector, then I'm stuck having to mod out the jars. I don't want jars in loot and I want to be able to use the dew collectors without needing jars so that I can entirely ignore that jars are back in the game. Any other option will require me to use a mod to remove jars entirely.

I get what you're saying, but if the dew collector is still going to produce "jars" of water, then it would be kind of silly to not have to provide jars in some way. The collector is not magically creating jars as well. Yes, I know that's what it's doing today, but you also don't get the jars back today.

Of course, one option is that instead of producing "jars" of water, just let the player drink straight from the collector instead of extracting and taking the contents with you. Of course, then you'll get loads of players complaining that they should be able to bottle the water from the dew collector.

If you really don't want to deal with jars, mod them out. I might just do that myself depending on how it's implemented.

 

[Riamus]

I get what you're saying, but if the dew collector is still going to produce "jars" of water, then it would be kind of silly to not have to provide jars in some way. The collector is not magically creating jars as well. Yes, I know that's what it's doing today, but you also don't get the jars back today.

Of course, one option is that instead of producing "jars" of water, just let the player drink straight from the collector instead of extracting and taking the contents with you. Of course, then you'll get loads of players complaining that they should be able to bottle the water from the dew collector.

If you really don't want to deal with jars, mod them out. I might just do that myself depending on how it's implemented.

No different than getting water from a toilet or even a water cooler. Neither have jars but they give you jars. There are plenty of abstractions in the game. There isn't any need to make the dew collectors require jars. Especially if jars are only crafted after getting a crucible.

 

[meganoth]

If you focus on it, it´s possible, i tried once how many i can get going in the first two days. There is polymer literally everywhere and you still get enough other stuff, just loot houses like you would anyways, get every pile of those small brown boxes, every tire, every plastic trashcan, blinds, trash bags etc. Ofc it slows you down a bit, but that doesn´t really effect you that much, still enough time until the first horde.

About what i want for water survival: Anything that isn´t just a time eater, but at least a bit of a challenge.

You are still looking at it from the viewpoint of an experienced player who for example doesn't need anything more than a lowest quality club and a roof prepared in 2 minutes for the night to survive the first week easily if he needs to. And the question is not what you could get in an experiment where you focus entirely on it, because nobody would want to focus on it for 2 days in a "normal" game. The question is what happens in normal play to a novice or intermediate player.

You want a challenge as a veteran player? Do you see that anwhere else in the game? Food? Ammo? Horde night? The balance in the game is not geared to veteran players, in no part.

Before the jar removal with a normal playthrough I never ever had any shortage of water and that without doing anything special. Now, with a normal playthrough I at least see that I have to manage water just like I have to manage food and honey and ammo. No, it still isn't hard for a veteran, but there is a difference

 

[theFlu]

There isn't any need to make the dew collectors require jars.

The need is kind of introduced if drinking "generates" (preserves?) jars. Especially if crucible-locking is supposed to make them scarce, the collector would become more important as a source of empty jars than as a source of water... which is not on the great end of "the spectrum of realistic game mechanics"..

 

[Kalen]

The need is kind of introduced if drinking "generates" (preserves?) jars. Especially if crucible-locking is supposed to make them scarce, the collector would become more important as a source of empty jars than as a source of water... which is not on the great end of "the spectrum of realistic game mechanics"..

Yeah, the only way I can see dew collectors not requiring empty jars, would be if drinking doesn't return an empty jar.... which would feel weird.

 

[grz__]

I really hope that isn't what they do. I don't want to use jars at all. If they make it so that you have no choice but to use jars even if you're using a dew collector, then I'm stuck having to mod out the jars. I don't want jars in loot and I want to be able to use the dew collectors without needing jars so that I can entirely ignore that jars are back in the game. Any other option will require me to use a mod to remove jars entirely.

I don't think it's that big of a deal. You just enter, let's say, 100 jars, and until they're gone, you can forget about it. It probably takes you 5 seconds to do that. And you can forget about collecting the empty jars in the loot if you don't want to, because they can be crafted.

 

[Jost Amman]

They could introduce a new mechanic in line with Greek tradition where you smash your glass on the ground after drinking.
That way they can't say it's weird that the jar disappears since you get broken glass instead.

 

[Adam the Waster]

I playtested the current iteration of jars this past weekend and it felt pretty good to me. It was nice to actually have to run over to a body of water to scoop up water again to boil. From a gameplay perspective, I think its a good thing to have the players interact with the environment more. Especially if that environment has zombies hiding in them ready to pounce on you if you are not paying attention (looking at you crawler steve hiding in a ditch )

Will there be thr changes like joel talked about like distilling water and stuff

 

[Riamus]

The need is kind of introduced if drinking "generates" (preserves?) jars.

Hopefully not.

 

[theFlu]

Hopefully not.

So, you'd find a jar in trash, fill it, boil it and lose it on use?

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

You are still looking at it from the viewpoint of an experienced player who for example doesn't need anything more than a lowest quality club and a roof prepared in 2 minutes for the night to survive the first week easily if he needs to. And the question is not what you could get in an experiment where you focus entirely on it, because nobody would want to focus on it for 2 days in a "normal" game. The question is what happens in normal play to a novice or intermediate player.

You want a challenge as a veteran player? Do you see that anwhere else in the game? Food? Ammo? Horde night? The balance in the game is not geared to veteran players, in no part.

Before the jar removal with a normal playthrough I never ever had any shortage of water and that without doing anything special. Now, with a normal playthrough I at least see that I have to manage water just like I have to manage food and honey and ammo. No, it still isn't hard for a veteran, but there is a difference

And we are talking about a game with a huge number of very experienced players. I would say more than half. With the long development time this should also be considered by the devs.

 

[Riamus]

So, you'd find a jar in trash, fill it, boil it and lose it on use?

I've already said I don't want them in loot either, so no. However, if they were in loot (and if I actually wanted them in loot), then yes. It would limit the overabundance of jars, at least until you can craft them after getting a crucible. If you keep finding jars and keep getting them back when used, you're just constantly generating more jars.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 3:32 PM

And we are talking about a game with a huge number of very experienced players. I would say more than half. With the long development time this should also be considered by the devs.

True, though they make little to no money from veteran players. If they focus only on them and make the game work for them and not for new players, new players are likely to just refund the game because it isn't fun for them. If they make the game so it's good for new players, that will bring in money for TFP and veteran players are usually already using mods anyhow, so it isn't a big deal to them unless they are on console.

However, that does not mean I want jars. It just means that focusing only on veteran players because they are the majority doesn't help TFP much.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

The cooking pot is, has been, and will always be the only real limitation on drinking water. As soon as you find or craft a cooking pot, drinking water ceases to be a meaningful problem.

It’s possible this will change but that seems extremely unlikely to me. And to be honest, I have never played a survival/crafting game where water is scarce after the first few in- game days.

 

[theFlu]

I've already said I don't want them in loot either, so no.

So you're actually hoping that you won't see a single jar unless you craft them yourself? I'm not trying to attack you, if that's what you want, then all right.

But I also don't think that would really satisfy the basic idea of "getting water from a lake", which I kinda fully expect TFP going for atm... you'd be crafting each individual jar to produce a single sip of water at a stage of the game where you're already drowning in dew collectors, not just water ...

 

[grz__]

True, though they make little to no money from veteran players. If they focus only on them and make the game work for them and not for new players, new players are likely to just refund the game because it isn't fun for them. If they make the game so it's good for new players, that will bring in money for TFP and veteran players are usually already using mods anyhow, so it isn't a big deal to them unless they are on console.

However, that does not mean I want jars. It just means that focusing only on veteran players because they are the majority doesn't help TFP much.

I disagree with that statement. You have to like a game for what it is, not for what it could be. New players aren't strangers from another planet. If they're interested in this game, it's because we have similar tastes. And novice players will only be novices for a short period of time. You have to learn by playing, not by making everything easy. We were all novices at one time.

 

[Professor-Pip]

So I've been thinking about ways they might change the water-survival system and still re-introduce empty jars. Here's some of my thoughts:

• Empty jars don't stack in inventory (maybe they stack in crates?). This means that you need to handle each one to fill them with water, instead of filling a stack instantly.
• Change the recipe for the Dew Collector to make it more difficult or make it require more Forge Ahead magazines.
• Decrease water in loot and add some empty jars.
• Boiling water is only one step to getting drinkable water. Maybe you need to craft a water filter and filter it too.

I'm not a fan of all these ideas but, they would make water survival more difficult.

I do like to feel like I am struggling the first few days and any effort o TFP's part to make water survival interesting will help.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Riamus It´s now over 12 years of development. Nearly 12 years available on steam. The V1 and Console release already happened. There is no major milestone to happen anymore that would draw in a huge amount of buyers. They sold over 22 millions already, i doubt they will reach 25 tbh.

 

[Roland]

The more people get used to the idea that a “jar of water” is simply a “unit of water” and accept that water survival is not going to exist at the hyper realistic simulation end of the spectrum the better they will manage their expectations and avoid disappointment. Just sayin…

 

[theFlu]

Hmm, for the people who dread the micromanagement of tossing out empty jars (at least Riamus here, apparently someone on that steam screenie):

Just "loot all" until "inventory full", and then drop them once. The full inventory prevents you from picking up any more.

Or preferably, once full, make a stash box, drop Everything there (including empties, so they'll auto-stack later) and clear on. You'll need to touch the icon once per POI, to toss it at the dump box when you "loot all" on it. The addition of one trash item won't cause another trip to the drop box in about 98% of the cases. And in the 2%, you'll just drop the extra jar...

I predict swapping my outfit more often than I'm managing jars.