we NEED more terrain textures!(gardening&biome ideas)

[neomega]

so i started playing in a18 so i dont have nostalgia for the removed features. that being said about 2 years ago i tried a16. i was surprised to see that there were more biomes and more gardening options then currently. i was super perplexed by this as in later versions you could only plant in pots and not able to do the authentic farmer experience. i found exploring the plains at the upper left town in navezgane during dusk to be super pretty and cozy. the cold forest had occasional snow that changed the color of the world and actually ELEVATED the ground by a block?? not even sims 4 or zomboid can do that!

over the years i thought of ideas of how this stuff could be reintegrated but updated. ill put gardening in a 2nd post so the wall of text isnt tldr levels. or maybe i should make a different thread?

Plains-placed between forests and desert for smoother terrain transition. similar to how it was in a16-flat land with few (plains&birch?) trees but with a ton more wispy tall grass. think valheim plains. there would be small pockets of player height dense grass. whats in there? a moldy backpack? a sleeper zombie waiting to ambush you?
biome hazard-pollen! player enters the plains and gets red eyes/hay feverish sneezes, obscuring vision. need to craft eye droppers or a sorta anti irritant to extend time in the zone. goldenrod and coal would be more frequent here- a good place to go in preparation of the burnt forest (new plant ingredient type-wheat? return of grain alcohol? FRESH sham sandwich?!). a new trader would be required (sell priority- resources? workstations? attachments?). this works out as we have 6 lvls of quest progression yet only 5 traders so by reaching wasteland joel would gives out lvl 6 infestations

Pine forest(cool)-slightly lower temp, temp drops low enough to give cold debuff during night and storms. just right amount temp that the coffee buff will get rid of it. im guessing this was removed cause it was too difficult to look nice but if there was someway to bring back the occasional snow and elevating ground that would make the biome so much more dynamic and engaging. still considered the starting biome so no biome hazard is needed

Forest(warm)-this biome would act as the players comfort starting area. it would always be smaller and located within and mostly surrounded by the pine forest. a tad bit warmer then current forest so normal rain wont make you cold (only for thunderstorms?). this will allow the player adept time to gather clothes and prepare for the colder pine. a few gimmicks would be disabled here like nighttime zombie aggression, only the basic zombie types would spawn(no bikers and lumberjacks), as long as your in this mini biome the newbie coat is active. since forest is an extension of the pine forest the trader(rekt) would be shared

with these new biomes the overall difficulty would have to increase by end game. i dont know what TFPs intended progression was back in a16 so these could be interchanged
forest-"-1/2" skulls (just zero with added nerfs)
pine forest-0 skulls
plains-1/2
burnt-1
desert-1 1/2
snow-2
wasteland-2 1/2
if you place plains here you could hold the hand of the player a bit by having a biome hazard but no extreme storm type. for example:
pine/forest-no biome hazard/no biome storms/no special zombie
progress to plains- yes biome hazard/NO biome storms/maybe special zombie?
progress to burnt forest-yes biome hazard/yes biome storms/yes special zombie

i even thought the radiated biome looked cool-very swampy,gloomy moody.

this is where the topic title comes in. if TFP doesnt want to bring the extra biomes back thats not the worst as the player can create the mod to bring them back right?
nope.
around a17 they appeared to have changed the way the game handles terrain textures (which im guessing is the sole reason both gardening and the extra biomes were removed). i know this because i was inspired by my idea and attempt to learn modding to do all this myself just to learn its actually impossible. at least visually

my question is what are the POSITIVES to this newer texture system? because it seems like the negatives FAR outweigh the positives if we were to lose such key features of biomes and gardening.

 

[Riamus]

Terrain textures/biomes were removed due to constraints of the game engine and hardware requirements. They are not likely to ever come back for this game, though most would like to see the old biomes return or new ones added.

 

[neomega]

but the world loaded just fine in a16, if not loaded FASTER. what else changed?
theres gotta be a way to add new textures, at least through 3rd party means.

 

[Riamus]

but the world loaded just fine in a16, if not loaded FASTER. what else changed?
theres gotta be a way to add new textures, at least through 3rd party means.

A LOT has changed since A16. What worked back then isn't always going to work today. You can do a forum search for faatal's and Madmole's comments on removing the biomes if you're interested in more specific details. But based on what they've said, they just aren't likely to ever return.

 

[neomega]

A LOT has changed since A16. What worked back then isn't always going to work today. You can do a forum search for faatal's and Madmole's comments on removing the biomes if you're interested in more specific details. But based on what they've said, they just aren't likely to ever return.

ill check those out. i was referring a17 performance but i may be faulty.
i wouldnt be too bothered that devs arent planning on bringing them back if we would be able to mod it back in ourselves you know? also its not just the biomes but its my understanding thats why ground gardening was removed too?

 

[Riamus]

ill check those out. i was referring a17 performance but i may be faulty.
i wouldnt be too bothered that devs arent planning on bringing them back if we would be able to mod it back in ourselves you know? also its not just the biomes but its my understanding thats why ground gardening was removed too?

Similar reasoning, but not directly related, I believe. In other words, related to performance/engine limitations, but for different reasons than textures.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Prior was procedural y generated world so less static models and structures on the screen
= higher Fps and more entities. Less detail, almost 1\5 the poly count per entity. Less
calculations. Less detailed ai interactivity. IE Spinners. Origin jitters. Less pois condensed
into chunks, today "player driven requests more pois in a smaller space". so more pois and static
objects loaded simultaneously = less entities to compensate, and less fps in those areas. Just load
up and check you will see it progressively change over time and alphas. Shorter detailed view
distance prior also.

Snow: I liked it too, but Caveat Emptor regarding assets. Once burned twice shy.

History/Release Notes - Alpha 20.6 (2022-08-16) Added :: 7 Days to Die Questions & Answers

This is the Version History as best as I've been able to gather from the start of 7 Days To Die on Steam. Please before reporting any bugs check to make sure you've compared to the changes in version history, any known issues, and that it can be reproduced on a newly created world in the version...

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Removed old treestump blocks that create snow, smoke and sandstorms now that we have
procedurally placed particle effects. changed particle generation mechanic.

Terrain: pine was also no lone zone texture, today Burnt is also waste minus the brick overlay.
If I had to choose the most flexible subterranean texture, it would be desert, and just change the
color per biome. Plains could be the alternate of desert, or the gravel path texture.

Grass: It is still billboard type asset in an atlas so you can mod it to plains color if you wish.
And add your own asset to the mods folder and add it to the biomes to render.

You can mod smoother terrain transitions for yourself, All you need is a fractalized texture at pixel
level to overlay on the borders, Then in Biomes.xml pick a single lighting spectrum and apply it to all
biomes.

The main thing that will change is the topological models and terrain textures. Secondary change is the
spawning. The lighting will not flash change. Test it for yourself just open console, and type spectrum desert
while in the wasteland, then cross the border. I would turn off the biome indicator though.

If blended correctly, using two biomes you will have 25 combinations 5 biomes and 20 near seamless blends,
and if you want specialty biomes you can incorporate variable percentages of up to the 5 biomes to create more.

Pollen with overlay: would probably get a lot of pushback, going by prior posts regarding screen overlay
effects and visibility.

The tree models are still there just duplicate a tree of same dimensions in blocks.xml and point it to
the other model. Then add it to biome.xml.

The ores were separated and placed in specific biomes to follow the present biome progression.

Basically the more that is added on one side the more will be taken away on the other side to balance the
load.

The game is being built today to include the lowest performer in the market. So a lot of simplification.

The positives are inclusion from a business viewpoint vs an individual. Proof look at sales, before and after
each change.

 

[zztong]

but the world loaded just fine in a16, if not loaded FASTER. what else changed?

POIs where much simpler. There were also fewer high-polygon (detailed) blocks.

theres gotta be a way to add new textures, at least through 3rd party means.

My understanding (which might be wrong) is the number of textures could be larger, but it comes with a memory hit and that is not favorable to the consoles. I recall there is a PC mod that adds textures, though that doesn't mean the POIs built without those textures would suddenly have them.

pine forest-0 skulls
plains-1/2

I don't know that you need more textures to have these. I mean, sure it would look nice to see pine needles, but I think you could intermix dirt with grass to get an acceptable pine forest. I think you could make plains by (removing trees, of course) by trimming back on the flowers in the forest (and the pine forest).

I wonder / worry about how maps will turn out with having two more biomes to share the available space. A 4k map isn't very big.

Personally, they sound more like subbiomes for the current Forest biome, but I wouldn't object if they were added.

small pockets of player height dense grass. whats in there? a moldy backpack? a sleeper zombie waiting to ambush you?

Sounds like a new custom block (high grass) being used in biome decorations (a current technology).

biome hazard-pollen! player enters the plains and gets red eyes/hay feverish sneezes, obscuring vision. need to craft eye droppers or a sorta anti irritant to extend time in the zone.

I want to think this would be possible today as it seems similar to what radiation effects do. I think you could do it by biome and also within the proximity of a selected block.

I'm neutral to the idea. It really depends on what the effects are as to if I'd like it, or not...

player enters the plains and gets red eyes/hay feverish sneezes, obscuring vision. need to craft eye droppers or a sorta anti irritant to extend time in the zone. goldenrod and coal would be more frequent here- a good place to go in preparation of the burnt forest (new plant ingredient type-wheat? return of grain alcohol?

I wouldn't mind obscuring vision a little and some sneeze sounds; it's a minor complication to play. I don't really want to craft eye droppers. I think just a period of acclimation would be enough. Or, if done as a block (like the radioactive waste barrels, but with flowers) then just destroy/harvest the flower.

I don't mind adding wheat as a new ingredient and for farming. It creates some variety, though really doesn't extend the game. It's a minor thing.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Sounds like a new custom block (high grass) being used in biome decorations (a current technology).

Yup, it's just duplicating a grass block and scaling. I don't know how much a billboard or postcard
asset effects the area load. Faatal recently broke it down for me in detail, The part that sticks in my mind
is the 4 meter height divisions, and I have been Jonesing to ask about it. But I think I have met my quota,
for obscure questions for a while.

 

[neomega]

i wouldnt even be apposed if the player was given the option of choosing 5 from a pool of biomes to generate in their world. like say you wanted a cooler climate world, you could pick snow,pine/forest,burnt,wasteland and plains to generate since its too cold for a desert.

POIs where much simpler. There were also fewer high-polygon (detailed) blocks.

ok this helps frame the reasoning to me. i guess there were a lot more personalized/complex block types added to a17.

Terrain: pine was also no lone zone texture, today Burnt is also waste minus the brick overlay.
If I had to choose the most flexible subterranean texture, it would be desert, and just change the
color per biome. Plains could be the alternate of desert, or the gravel path texture.

Grass: It is still billboard type asset in an atlas so you can mod it to plains color if you wish.

I don't know that you need more textures to have these. I mean, sure it would look nice to see pine needles, but I think you could intermix dirt with grass to get an acceptable pine forest. I think you could make plains by (removing trees, of course) by trimming back on the flowers in the forest (and the pine forest).

i agree that a lot of those things are insertable ourselves but as it seems to currently stand, you cannot make a new biome have its own visual identity as you cant even change the TINT of terrain textures. that would have been so simple and was my original mod plan. ■■■■ i wish ground textures was just a LITTLE more flexible.

Pollen with overlay: would probably get a lot of pushback, going by prior posts regarding screen overlay
effects and visibility.

I want to think this would be possible today as it seems similar to what radiation effects do. I think you could do it by biome and also within the proximity of a selected block.

I'm neutral to the idea. It really depends on what the effects are as to if I'd like it, or not...



I wouldn't mind obscuring vision a little and some sneeze sounds; it's a minor complication to play. I don't really want to craft eye droppers. I think just a period of acclimation would be enough. Or, if done as a block (like the radioactive waste barrels, but with flowers) then just destroy/harvest the flower.

I don't mind adding wheat as a new ingredient and for farming. It creates some variety, though really doesn't extend the game. It's a minor thing.

the pollen and eye drops are just fancy talk for the standardized biome hazard, just the lore explanation of why the player has issues entering the biome like burnt and beyond. the eye droppers would be the equivalent of black lung serum/sunstroke tonic of the plains. screen obscuring doesnt need to actually be a thing. then the player would eventually make some kinda permanent protection

I recall there is a PC mod that adds textures, though that doesn't mean the POIs built without those textures would suddenly have them.

microsplat right? i tried it but i was incredibly confused by the concept for a newbie modder.

 

[zztong]

microsplat right? i tried it but i was incredibly confused by the concept for a newbie modder.

I'm not sure as I've not used one of those mods. Searching, I see "Pyro Paints" and another called "CK Textures and Paints."