PC Vehicles on Horde night

[ColdGate]

Difference is: try that with the ne ai.If you can manage: good for u. But the risk is infinatly hogher then drivibg away.

Yes we did play without it. But its just not as fun as trying to find a way to survive.

I will always remember my first few hordenights, because i didnt know any exploits.

Survival was the nr 1 concern. And it was the most fun i had in the game.

If i have to selflimit myself for a challenge it becomes boring real quick.

I wonder if you guys can hear yourself.

ARK: giga(first release) is fine! If you have a problem with a creature beeing 100x stronger then any other, just dont tame it.

Skyrimotion scaling

Witcher: endless cowhide

Who argues like that? -_-

Ok, then I do not see any problems with minibikes, or other abuses, more choices = more fun. Furthermore they look balanced - no fight is no risk, but no loot.

Here, on this forum less then 1% of 7DTD players, but they skilled, looking for challenges and difficulty. But rest 99% may have another opinions, they asking not about disabling minibikes, but about disabling Horde Nights!

 

[DEADication]

And he's back...from outer space. :smile-new:

In 4 years of playing I have made one mini-bike.

Another player got the parts together and gave them to me as a gift.

So putting it together and trying it out was the polite thing to do.

Haven't used one since.

I will play the game my way, and I really don't give a rats arse how someone else plays it.

So ride, drive, run, hide, log off, man the walls or take em on head on, I don't care.

I'll just role play my own reality......suspension of disbelief is critical. :smile-new:

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Roleplaying is nice and all. But i can also roleplay in ET(1982) that doent mean its a good game.

But you know what? I'll leave this discussion. There is nothing to gain from it.

You repeat the “just roleplay“ thing so much its insane. YOU CAN STILL DO THAT AFTER THEY FIX THE EXPLOITS!!!

The only hope that I have is, that Roland shares my views and therefor maybe TFPs do too.

 

[DEADication]

Roleplaying is nice and all. But i can also roleplay in ET(1982) that doent mean its a good game.
But you know what? I'll leave this discussion. There is nothing to gain from it.

You repeat the “just roleplay“ thing so much its insane. YOU CAN STILL DO THAT AFTER THEY FIX THE EXPLOITS!!!

The only hope that I have is, that Roland shares my views and therefor maybe TFPs do too.

Don't get upset about it.

It's a game....a fantasy construct.

A game where I have run around with thousands of tons of concrete in my backpack.

A fantasy construct where you have to enable suspension of disbelief for it to work.

As the player, you are an inherent developer of that construct, as much as TFP is.

I have always played SP dead is dead, 1 life only, last human alive.

Always sort of felt multiple lives was a bit of an 'exploit' regarding my fantasy.

And of course Traders are an absolute no no.

I have never needed a game option to enforce it.

I did it, and it wasn't hard to do.

 

[RestInPieces]

any problems with minibikes, or other abuses, more choices = more fun.

So, are only abusive as you say, choices fun, and meaningful weighted choices, where players must actually think before making a choice are not? Cool statistics there btw.

I will play the game my way, and I really don't give a rats arse how someone else plays it.I'll just role play my own reality......suspension of disbelief is critical. :smile-new:

Of course none really cares about how others play. Sorry, but it is naive and egocentric at best, to think so - and if they really did, they would also complain about other people playing on different difficulty options, different modes etc - obviously none complains about that so I urge you to employ your common sense and think why that doesn't happen.

So personally, if I wanted to roleplay using imaginary game mechanics, I'd get a piece of paper, call some friends and play DnD. Plenty of suspension of disbelief there. And if I wanted to roleplay in 7DTD there's always creative mode for that (much more freedom there for pure RP).

What I personally want to enjoy in this game though, is that survival/TD/RPG/sandbox combination it was advertized for, and combination means, like, combining you know, blending, all these elements together, not skipping some of them on the way. And in the spirit of survival/TD specifically, I want the game to present me with meaningful choices having incentives/consequences. It may be hard to fathom, but that's what a lot of people enjoy and it's irrelevant to difficulty (there are options for that already) and it can't happen if these meaningful choices aren't there.

 

[DEADication]

And if I wanted to roleplay in 7DTD there's always creative mode for that (much more freedom there for pure RP).

Every time you play 7DTD you are roleplaying.

And as if I would use creative mode in my fantasy construct????????

And mr "naive and egocentric", pull up on the passive aggression.

 

[RestInPieces]

I have never needed a game option to enforce it.

Yes, people like to say that but I wonder if that's the case. Stamina, health, hunger, inventory, enemies, durability, materials, tools, weapons, pretty much everything in the 7DTD universe are enforced rule-following game elements. You wouldn't need to play a video game, if you were completely comfortable with suspension of disbelief and if you didn't really need a universe with enforced rules, because theoritically your imagination would be enough.

In the absense of these rules, you would lose health/die whenever you wanted, be hungry whenever you wanted, engage enemies whenever you wanted etc. Everything would be imaginary. You can even make your own ruleset through XML editing as many people like to repeat for some reason - but it's still a ruleset with enforced rules you play in!

And mr "naive and egocentric", pull up on the passive aggression.

Isn't it egocentric when someone thinks it's always about them?

 

[DEADication]

Yes, people like to say that but I wonder if that's the case.

Seriously, you wonder? Well I got news for you, people are varied, some are very honest unto themselves.

You wouldn't need to play a video game, if you were completely comfortable with suspension of disbelief and if you didn't really need a universe with enforced rules, because theoritically your imagination would be enough.
In the absense of these rules, you would lose health/die whenever you wanted, be hungry whenever you wanted, engage enemies whenever you wanted etc. Everything would be imaginary. You can even make your own ruleset through XML editing as many people like to repeat for some reason - but it's still a ruleset with enforced rules you play in!

Been studying 18th century philosophy?

Watching movies must be an absolute blast.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't it egocentric when someone thinks it's always about them?

Dude, you are being rude and misguided, much of this thread has focused around you. So settle

 

[RestInPieces]

Seriously, you wonder? Well I got news for you, people are varied, some are very honest unto themselves.
Been studying 18th century philosophy?

Watching movies must be an absolute blast.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, you are being rude and misguided, much of this thread has focused around you. So settle

I only characterized behaviors and that was only in response to characterizations of my own (and others') behavior!

Also explained my points, yet you spend a post characterizing me. For which I take no offence, but you don't really respond to the things I demonstrated. People are varied - that's why there are so many menu options, XML options and mod capabilities in this game - your point? You are talking about honesty with one's self but didn't you clearly contradict yourself in your last post by talking about suspension of disbelief and imaginary rules being all that you need while playing a game full of enforced rules?

 

[Viktoriusiii]

He is not rude, nor disguided.

His point is basic gaming philosophy.

And you didnt get what he meant by “i wonder...“

It wasnt really a question and more a Statement that NO GAME gives you absolute freedom. Every game has a ruleset and a universe that supports that ruleset.

Examples:

There is hunger and thirst.

So everyone follows a ruleset set by the game and not their imagination.

And there are 1000s of little rules like that, that everyone follows.

So doubting that people dont want rules is absolutely justified.

 

[RestInPieces]

...

Viktorius, I can't reply privately and characterize others as freely and rudely as I want, your inbox is full! xD

 

[ktr]

The only thing that I think might need to be changed with vehicles in general is probably the damage they take and possibly how the hordes spawn in relation.

1.) If possible, let the horde spawn in front of the player when they're on a vehicle, making them harder to avoid.

2.) Running directly into a zombie should slow down the vehicle in relation to the vehicle's size. (Ideally, but perhaps not possible.) The more zombies, the greater the chance that they will make your vehicle slow down or completely stop.

3.) Damage vehicles should move slower and possibly exploded once enough damage is dealt.

4.) Maybe tweak how far a vehicle can go before it needs to be refilled. Perhaps a full tank of gas can get a person through horde night, but just barely. There for if you forget to refill or have an engine of low quality (perhaps it's got terrible fuel efficiency) you might not be able to entirely zoom through horde night. But you can still use it as a reprieve or escape option if things go bad.

Those risks still allow careful players their escape route - and I do believe that vehicles should be a viable escape/way to deal with the horde - but doesn't make them "autowins". I'm not a big fan of 'they don't work on horde night'. It seems like a cheap way to circumvent the vehicles. Gyrocopters should probably be vulnerable to vultures.

tl;dr - running away should always be a viable tactic. I'm a big fan of classic zombies and their threat was always in numbers and the fact they can't get tired.

 

[RestInPieces]

The only thing that I think might need to be changed with vehicles in general is probably the damage they take and possibly how the hordes spawn in relation.
1.) If possible, let the horde spawn in front of the player when they're on a vehicle, making them harder to avoid.

2.) Running directly into a zombie should slow down the vehicle in relation to the vehicle's size. (Ideally, but perhaps not possible.) The more zombies, the greater the chance that they will make your vehicle slow down or completely stop.

3.) Damage vehicles should move slower and possibly exploded once enough damage is dealt.

4.) Maybe tweak how far a vehicle can go before it needs to be refilled. Perhaps a full tank of gas can get a person through horde night, but just barely. There for if you forget to refill or have an engine of low quality (perhaps it's got terrible fuel efficiency) you might not be able to entirely zoom through horde night. But you can still use it as a reprieve or escape option if things go bad.

Those risks still allow careful players their escape route - and I do believe that vehicles should be a viable escape/way to deal with the horde - but doesn't make them "autowins". I'm not a big fan of 'they don't work on horde night'. It seems like a cheap way to circumvent the vehicles. Gyrocopters should probably be vulnerable to vultures.

tl;dr - running away should always be a viable tactic. I'm a big fan of classic zombies and their threat was always in numbers and the fact they can't get tired.

This is some good thinking. The bigger the variety of tactics one can choose to employ, the better, that's for sure. In Darkwood for example, small random electricity outages at night are pretty thematic and atmospheric, but I am not a fan of "magical/cheap" mechanics that make alternative tactcs impossible either.

 

[ktr]

This is some good thinking. The bigger the variety of tactics one can choose to employ, the better, that's for sure. In Darkwood for example, small random electricity outages at night are pretty thematic and atmospheric, but I am not a fan of "magical/cheap" mechanics that make alternative tactcs impossible either.

Thanks

Power outages could definitely fit in 7d2d since we're using generators that were basically cobbling together from old engines and such. Heck, the generator at a place I used to work constantly had issues.

The place that I tend to teeter back and forth on when it comes to any attempts to counter a particular strategy (be it underground, stilt bases, or 500 wooden spikes, etc) is that I would like to see more attention paid to the Game Stage and subsequent horde/spawning generation first.

In most of my games, be they SP or MP, there always seems to come a point where my game stage vastly outpaces my weapons skills and, while I don't go out of my way to hunt zombies, I'm also not shy about killing them. This usually results in massive damage to my base when I get horde filled with cops and irradiated zeds followed by 3-4 days worth of clean up, repair, replenish ammo, etc, and leaves me with little time build/explore/do other things that I'd like to do. Because of that, I have certainly taken a horde night or two "off" either by driving or staying below ground and mining/smelting/etc. So, I can understand why people might not want those options interfered with.

 

[Kattla]

Roleplaying is nice and all. But i can also roleplay in ET(1982) that doent mean its a good game.
But you know what? I'll leave this discussion. There is nothing to gain from it.

You repeat the “just roleplay“ thing so much its insane. YOU CAN STILL DO THAT AFTER THEY FIX THE EXPLOITS!!!

The only hope that I have is, that Roland shares my views and therefor maybe TFPs do too.

About Roland i do not know, but the developers do share your view.

Sometime between A15 and A16 their "intended way to play" this game

changed from "just have fun" to "You shall not be safe anywhere".

(I may get the exact wording wrong , but they do seem true to their word).

Hence why i say the result is simular to Henry's Ford supposed quota:

"Any customer can have their car painted in any color as long as it is black".

"Any player can play the game any way they want as long as they fight zombies day and night".

So you are also right again, there is nothing to gain from this topic.

In my view, there is nothing to GAIN from fixing supposed exploits either. You know of anything, say so.

Byebye.

 

[Kattla]

Difference is: try that with the ne ai.If you can manage: good for u. But the risk is infinatly hogher then drivibg away.

There be changes to melee and running in A17, yes. But we do not yet know

if it is a nerf, or just something that require a bit of training to be as useful as it was before

A17.

The only person i know of with access to A17, and a skill level high enough to give an opionion on it,

would be Gazz. No saying the other devs are bad, but i do not know their skill level.

 

[RestInPieces]

and a skill level high enough to give an opionion on it, would be Gazz.

Stop trolling Gazz Kattla, jeez.

 

[DEADication]

He is not rude

Do you understand what ad hominem means?

I'll give you an example.

Sorry, but it is naive and egocentric at best, to think so -

I only characterized behaviors and that was only in response to characterizations of my own (and others') behavior!Also explained my points, yet you spend a post characterizing me.

So because others characterised you, that justified passing it onto someone that had nothing to do with it?

If you slap someone and they object, then you double down and slap them again, they are not being hypocrital returning the favour.

I am not really that interested in debating this topic, it's been done to death.

I am responding because a rude arrogant fricker ad hominemed me for no good reason.

And until you acknowledge this, I will have no reservation 'characterising' you.

As far as gameplay goes, I gave up a long time ago on expecting 7DTD would be the game I wanted.

I hate the cyclic tower defence\grind, it's not what I want.

The only reason I'm still a fan is the modability, and I accepted a long time ago that I would have to mod the game to be what I wanted.

So taking that into account, how vanilla ends up is moot for me, it's not the game I will be playing.

 

[DEADication]

About Roland i do not know, but the developers do share your view. Sometime between A15 and A16 their "intended way to play" this game

changed from "just have fun" to "You shall not be safe anywhere".

Yep, been wondering when they are going to change their name from The Fun Pimps to the The Serious Pimps.

 

[RestInPieces]

I will play the game my way, and I really don't give a rats arse how someone else plays it

Here, you state, out of the blue, that you don't give a rat's arse how someone else plays the game. That's great, me too. What you implied though wasn't (very) obvious - not until your next post.

Of course none really cares about how others play. Sorry, but it is naive and egocentric at best, to think so

(Quoted with context)

I reply condemning a silly "argument" that makes anyone who dares talk about gameplay mechanics that some others don't agree on, seem like they want to impose their playstyle upon others. We might even have agreed if your first statement wasn't in reality much more like: "I don't give a rat's arse about how others play, like some other people here who "care" how others play". And none really uses "care" in that sentence, in a caring, loving way. And if judging by your reaction to my statement, it is what you really meant.

Dude, you are being rude and misguided, much of this thread has focused around you. So settle

I am responding because a rude arrogant fricker ad hominemed me for no good reason.

Ad hominem means to attack the person's personality and integrity (or misc attributes), instead of the message/argument. Do the math..

Anyway, always condemned the above behavior because it is the very essence of ad hominem. Hard to make a discussion when you talk about gameplay, present your arguments, and some people openly say or imply that "you just want to impose your playstyle on strangers over the internet", like some kind of psychopath. I don't care if people disagree with me, I enjoy a good argument but I find this behavior very "ad hominem", as you said.

Modding is great. But caring about how the base game will turn out and giving feedback is justified. Modding can only change the game up to a point - and one can neither rely on modding to solve everything, nor expect that every kind of mechanics one wants will be available with mods.