"Job loss" ... do you travel by mass transit? That's a whole lot of rent-a-horse business gone, you know.
I don't hate the idea of "preserving jobs", the morals are decent.. but the full output of a cashier is "moving items by a few feet". It produces nothing. If we can free those people to do anything that actually produces something, it's a net gain.
Losing low skilled jobs is an actual economic issue, but it shouldn't be solved by forcing companies to waste man-hours on pointless tasks. I'd much prefer a UBI for that (and that idea has massive issues too, but we'd basically just be paying the cashiers to output nothing ... no change detected )
We both know that this isn't a "technology" issue. It's how BIG employers use technology simply to cut costs by outright removing people from specific roles. My vision for humanity is a world FOR humanity, and not for machines.
The BIG guys tend to forget that it is US, The People, who buy and consume their products. It's US who LIVE lives. However, in their wet dreams, they probably imagine a completely automated society where the robots do their bidding and only a few elites benefit from the shared resources.
Work, like it or not, gives not only cash, but also human dignity to people.
(I'm not specifically saying all this to you but it's a general reply on the topic)
This is an exciting time to be alive. Maybe THEE most exciting time to be alive.
Obviously AI is getting better, robotics are getting better; no one is going to halt that progression. They might put in speed bumps, but it's gonna keep going.
The likelihood that we will eventually move into a "you don't have to work anymore" universal basic income situation is pretty good. You might think that will usher in the end of society. Everyone will become lazy, useless messes. But you don't know that. You have no idea what will happen.
Those cashiers, at the very least, are completely disengaged with their job, and more likely hate doing it. This sounds like the best thing for them.
There will never be a successful "we don't have to work any more" society. Never has been, never will be. It's the carrot, not the reality. The reality is as long as there is a system of power and control there will always be people who have and people who dont have. In 5 years you won't even be able to afford a subscription to a worthwhile tier of chatgpt and that's when the real economic classism is contrasted. You cant think AI is going to be beneficial for the average citizen when history has shown, over and over and over, the average citizen is locked out of high level benefit by its price. Same people complaining about billionaires are now quoting billionaires about how great their life will become. AI is not some benevolent god about to return and bestow forever utopia on an awaiting populace. AI is a for profit product that will only benefit you if you own enough stock in its IPO that you can afford the subscriptions moving forward. You try building a computer right now? Those people telling you all will be well because of AI are charging you 800 dollars for the same ram kits that cost 150 dollars 3 years ago. They blame it on the rise of AI and the need for ALL available ram. Nah, its those same people reaching into your wallet or purse because you have no alternative. In truth Seven Days 2 Die is a microcosm of this trek to AI. Just research the tuna industry for specifics (hopefully you get that reference) It's the ultimate form of greed through forced consumerism. We are literally playing THE game that represents this very concept. While I respect your opinion on the matter, in terms of believing the cashier is disengaged. That's not my point but I do hear you- though it does sound suspiciously like a justification for looking the other way while those around you are infected one at a time. While i am not suggesting AI is not beneficial, I am only saying I will support every human job for as long as I can regardless of how "antiquated" or "old school" I may seem while doing so. Come back to this forum in 5 years when your electricity bill in 1800 a month, your water bill is 200 a month and every calorie you eat is 20x the cost of a calorie today, when you are taxed per mile you travel, per shower you take, per toilet you flush. Watch as AI helps every major company that can afford it to leverage the monetization of every resource to exact every dollar you scavenge for. THIS is the economy of 7 days 2 die. Only so many cans of food left to find and their ain't no super corn gonna fix that.
That's ... a "legal" version of the Broken Windows Economy. Making your local shop raise their prices for wasted work, is no different to getting taxed.
You believe the "local shop" is the root. It is not. The local shop sits at the end of a long line of decisions. They have their own line to hold and the entity above them has theirs.
Root of .. what? Hiring some people to dig holes so a group of government hires can come in and fill them on the first group's taxes? Pointless work is pointless, cashiering isn't even "fulfilling" for most.
But, I don't think this is really relevant for a 3.0 Thread, or this entire forum... if this gets split into a thread, I might carry on, but here we're just in the way of the silence ..
It's the carrot, not the reality. The reality is as long as there is a system of power and control there will always be people who have and people who dont have. In 5 years you won't even be able to afford a subscription to a worthwhile tier of chatgpt and that's when the real economic classism is contrasted. You cant think AI is going to be beneficial for the average citizen when history has shown, over and over and over, the average citizen is locked out of high level benefit by its price. Same people complaining about billionaires are now quoting billionaires about how great their life will become. AI is not some benevolent god about to return and bestow forever utopia on an awaiting populace. AI is a for profit product that will only benefit you if you own enough stock in its IPO that you can afford the subscriptions moving forward. You try building a computer right now? Those people telling you all will be well because of AI are charging you 800 dollars for the same ram kits that cost 150 dollars 3 years ago. They blame it on the rise of AI and the need for ALL available ram. Nah, its those same people reaching into your wallet or purse because you have no alternative. In truth Seven Days 2 Die is a microcosm of this trek to AI. Just research the tuna industry for specifics (hopefully you get that reference) It's the ultimate form of greed through forced consumerism. We are literally playing THE game that represents this very concept. While I respect your opinion on the matter, in terms of believing the cashier is disengaged. That's not my point but I do hear you- though it does sound suspiciously like a justification for looking the other way while those around you are infected one at a time. While i am not suggesting AI is not beneficial, I am only saying I will support every human job for as long as I can regardless of how "antiquated" or "old school" I may seem while doing so. Come back to this forum in 5 years when your electricity bill in 1800 a month, your water bill is 200 a month and every calorie you eat is 20x the cost of a calorie today, when you are taxed per mile you travel, per shower you take, per toilet you flush. Watch as AI helps every major company that can afford it to leverage the monetization of every resource to exact every dollar you scavenge for. THIS is the economy of 7 days 2 die. Only so many cans of food left to find and their ain't no super corn gonna fix that.
You have the common dystopian outlook. However, I don't have a utopian outlook. I have an outlook of somewhere in the middle...like how basically everything has ever landed since the dawn of man.
The majority of our species' time on this planet was a jobless one.
As I said...you don't know what's going to happen. But what we do know is AI is not going to be stopped and something will be done to balance things out...one way or another.
Wow. This Great Wall of Text might be big enough to be seen from low Earth orbit.
You have the common dystopian outlook. However, I don't have a utopian outlook. I have an outlook of somewhere in the middle...like how basically everything has ever landed since the dawn of man.
The majority of our species' time on this planet was a jobless one.
As I said...you don't know what's going to happen. But what we do know is AI is not going to be stopped and something will be done to balance things out...one way or another.
Wow. This Great Wall of Text might be big enough to be seen from low Earth orbit.
You have the common dystopian outlook. However, I don't have a utopian outlook. I have an outlook of somewhere in the middle...like how basically everything has ever landed since the dawn of man.
The majority of our species' time on this planet was a jobless one.
As I said...you don't know what's going to happen. But what we do know is AI is not going to be stopped and something will be done to balance things out...one way or another.
btw there has never been a jobless time on this planet. from the very first days survival was the one and only job that required hunting, gathering and defending 24/7... and wouldn't you know it? Oregon, in the US pacific north west is passing legislation right now that will criminalize hunting and fishing as animal cruelty. So when you say things like dystopian and somewhere in the middle did you mean being unemployed and unable to hunt to feed your family or did you mean life in jail for an animal cruelty felony as a result of trying to feed a family? I'm telling you, THIS is how the zombie apocalypse starts. Maybe.
"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."
There will never be a successful "we don't have to work any more" society. Never has been, never will be. It's the carrot, not the reality. The reality is as long as there is a system of power and control there will always be people who have and people who dont have. In 5 years you won't even be able to afford a subscription to a worthwhile tier of chatgpt and that's when the real economic classism is contrasted. You cant think AI is going to be beneficial for the average citizen when history has shown, over and over and over, the average citizen is locked out of high level benefit by its price.
As a history and economics teacher, this couldn't be farther from the truth. Democratization of technology has been the iron law of history, (tech becomes cheaper has time goes on, available to more people) maybe spend a little less time browsing and more time reading up on your history, @JustBrowsing .
Agree with you on the hate for billionaires though. UBI is only impossible because the billionaire class cannot stomach the idea of 15% inflation. In the US though, that would be countered by the Federal Reserve raising interest rates, which would be ideal as it would push people back into putting their money into savings accounts, as opposed to gambling on the stock market
Truly is gambling when you understand that companies used trillions from the fed (when interest rates were near 0% during the 2010s to pump up their own stock prices. They're due for a crash.
AT ANY RATE, a UBI of 2000 per American citizen would be ideal, and people with assets over a million dollars have to pay it back at tax time. Could use some consumption taxes on fast food to artificially increase the prices for heavily processed foods, to help pay for the UBI---there are other taxes too--and given the incompetence of congress, you'd need someone to run for President in 2028 to promise a "new deal" with the American people, a promise to "wage a war on poverty" using the same tactics employed by Lincoln during the Civil War via the printing of Greenbacks as a "war measure" (this gives us UBI), and a takeover of our healthcare industry seeing as healthcare companies are only in it for the profit and not for actual human healthcare.
On the whole AI bit, I noticed that Fataal,--and according to reputable opinion polls out there from Pew, AP, Reuters--, most Americans seem to be souring on AI. In the 7 days to die space, as a history teacher who has no experience coding, I was able to use dishorde to create an automated bot system for crossplay users on our permadeath, insane, nightmare-speed 24/7, server. The bot created a currency called oblivion that gives players oblivion for every in-game zombie kill, every in-game minute they spend on the server, players can in-turn use the in-game currency in a similar manner that on PC servers people use z-coins. Created custom POI "gyms", that players can walk up to and type !gym, whereby the bot auto-spawns zombies within the perimeter of the gym itself in a cadence. 10 gyms on the entire map, increasing in lethality as you get to the 10th gym. ANYWAY, I say all of this to demonstrate that I had no idea how to code, and while @faatal is absolutely right that the bots are dog-water at coding, (in the same manner that someone who isn't trained in history is dog-water at analyzing historical trends) to someone who has no experience with coding, they're actually a god-send. Bot codes and makes errors. Go back to bot with symptoms of whats wrong, bot fixes it. I suppose to someone who knows how to code, that's a stupid waste of time---but this bot has changed the QOL on our crossplay server.
On another note, mostly been lurking this forum and keeping my thoughts to myself on the 3.0 update. Spent a good 90 minutes of my life minutes clicking through every god forsaken page looking for Fataal's messages, or TFP staff, or anyone who actually works for TFP, to lick the plate clean on this specific forum.
My wish for 3.0 was that they had checkboxes to nerf certain parts of the skill tree (dont remember the names but they're in the intellect mastery section for reading books) but everyone has that sorta opinion, so not sure if its possible to entirely neutralize certain perks with a check of a box or "coding doesnt work like that bro, no way no how that could be a thing". Even certain items in-game too---I'm hoping that with the trader changes, I'll be able to nerf super corn in such a manner that it doesn't kill the entire trader quest system. Currently on our permadeath, insane, nightmare-speed 24/7, server, it's sort of honor system (with a 100 year ban if you're caught) that no one grows super corn. Super corn sort of breaks the entire economy of the game---and our server sells itself as "thee hardest crossplay server in exisitence"---not to mention the approximate ~$4000 I've given away in cash prizes on the various seasons of "Permadeath Payday PVE" to people who completed the season goal. An unofficial e-sport if you will. (wish this game had that---it would be so awesome if it did!)
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