PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary

[Treb]

Those are all completely different because they compound on each other and you know it. Each stage of Archery gives +10% , where as the Int Mastery just flat out invalidates the previous perk entirely. It's not compounding to build on the prior one, it just out and out replaces it

Also the difference is it's a mastery, so losing one of your main capstone abilities hurts extra hard too. I definitely agree the full mastery is hilariously strong and will almost certainly get nerfed

They should replace the 5th level int mastery with something else like "Robotic Turrets now stagger enemies" or at least slow them or *something*. Currently they don't really do anything because enemies run through, and if you have a set up so that the enemies can't just run past them, they don't do enough damage to justify all the time spent mining.

If the mastery 4 said charge faster by 50% and the mastery 5 said charge faster by 100% you would be ok with it?

You're getting stuck on the way it's worded.

 

[Adam the Waster]

Sorry, I do sometimes get tired by all the back and forth too easy/hard, too fast/slow, performance is great/bad, that was boring/fun and then get ticked off. Everyone has an opinion and it is easy to express it over the internet when you don't have to say it to their face. People will also treat TFP like it is a hive mind, when in reality even we have different opinions in the company and argue with each other. Trying to guess what appeals to our typical player is not easy.

Thanks for your clarifications. I am glad you found more positives than negatives. I will try not to rip off your head in the future

*hops on soap box*

You guys do great for many things and if I saw joel or any TFP person I would have no problem saying that they have done great with the game on some aspects. However I would also tell them that they have strayed away from much of the survival aspects of the Game.

Performance and other parts are great
Others I would like more of but I sometimes need to expect that, I got no part in development. I wish I did or learned to code stuff maybe in time but

I hate hearing people saying modders are better then the devs because the devs have more things to take care of vs someone who wants too add on to the game. In a perfect would Aka PC, lmao (side note the izzys gun mod looks sick AF)

But you guys do great. I hate that the community can be stress full. I mean we lost joel here we don't wanna lose another dev.

We all love you faatal @SnowDog1942 likes you in other ways

 

[jdm311]

With this update we lost 2 armor mods: cooling mesh and insulated armor mod. Since managing temperature in 1.0 wasn't a thing, I only used those mods to buff my explosion resistance. It seems there is nothing to replace that currently. Let's look at the armor mods we have. General purpose mods are: fittings, muffled connectors, 1-4 pocket mods, and armor mod. Body armor adds bandolier mod. Boots add impact bracing and stealth boots mods. Nothing extra for gloves. Headgear adds more mods than I have space to wear . If wearing light armor, can't use fittings/muffled connectors/stealth mod. If wearing heavy armor, can't use armor mods. Light armor wearers are clearly lacking in mods they can use. Especially when you couple with pack mule. If pack mule is maxed, gloves will only make use of the armor mod. More non-headgear armor mods should be added. General purpose armor mods could be added to increase explosive resistance. For gloves you could add extra grip that could increase swing speed or damage of melee weapons and/or tools. Maybe even a mod that reduces stamina use when aiming a gun. For feet, maybe cleats to help you move a little faster on dirt. I'm sure some really creative people can come up with some good additions.

 

[EvilPolygons]

I hate hearing people saying modders are better then the devs because the devs have more things to take care of vs someone who wants too add on to the game. In a perfect would Aka PC, lmao (side note the izzys gun mod looks sick AF)

Modders have the luxury of doing their thing as a hobby. Modders don't have to worry about filing for bankruptcy due to their products being so niche and harcore that only a handful of people are interested in them.

No developer can be expected to cater to every individual player's specific tastes in game mechanics, or difficulty levels, or anything else. And very few developers build into their games the massive level of very powerful mod support that we enjoy with 7 Days to Die.

Without The Fun Pimps, there wouldn't be a game to mod in the first place. People need to remember that.

 

[zztong]

[Frostclaws, Plague Spitters] No more than 10% would seem reasonable.

There's a trade-off there. If you make them rarer then the achievements to get your acclimation badge will take longer. Maybe they're attracted (spawn more often nearer) to people under the effects of a smoothie?

Post automatically merged: Monday at 4:08 PM

The problem with reducing the number of spitters/frostclaws is that it will make the Kill X challenges way harder. If it took 40-50 minutes to even find 10 spitters, that would be really annoying.

Oh, I see I should have read further before replying. I agree with Vaeliorin on this issue.

 

[Mr. Perfect]

Sorry, I do sometimes get tired by all the back and forth too easy/hard, too fast/slow, performance is great/bad, that was boring/fun and then get ticked off. Everyone has an opinion and it is easy to express it over the internet when you don't have to say it to their face. People will also treat TFP like it is a hive mind, when in reality even we have different opinions in the company and argue with each other. Trying to guess what appeals to our typical player is not easy.

Thanks for your clarifications. I am glad you found more positives than negatives. I will try not to rip off your head in the future

How do you guys manage to balance things? IIRC back in the day there was a company supplying player metrics, but they went out of business or something? Without telemetry I'd imagine there's not much to go off of when trying to figure out how the playerbase is fairing with gameplay.

 

[Adam the Waster]

so niche and harcore that only a handful of people are interested in them.

Idk when the over 20 million copies sold. Like they show off (not anything wrong with that)
Happened but it was in the early alphas. I'm sure it's more now especially with console.

But they had a audience. The survival game audience. Now they want to go to the RPG audience.

Its like if Minecraft become a first person shooter, or turning dead island into a survival game

Or fallout into a survival game.... oh wait

As a side game is nice or a spin off. Like bloodmoons for example.


Can you have both? Personality think they can.

By adding a world difficulty/conversation
That ether adds or removes features.

 

[Jost Amman]

The problem with reducing the number of spitters/frostclaws is that it will make the Kill X challenges way harder.

Just reduce X.

 

[EvilPolygons]

By adding a world difficulty/conversation
That ether adds or removes features.

It isn't as easy as just adding a switch in the Options menu. Every optional feature still has to be designed and coded. Which means coders have to be paid, designers have to be paid, potentially art and sound guys have to be paid, testers have to paid, etc, etc.

New features and options need to have enough wide consumer appeal to justify the cost of implementing them. Everything costs money to implement.

Personally, I love really niche, hardcore game mechanics and systems. I'm a realism and simulation nerd. No developer is ever going to make decent $$$ by producing the type of games I want to play. That's just the reality of it. So I tend to play games that are super moddable.

It sucks that mods aren't an option for console players, but no one except the console manufacturers can do anything about that.

 

[Riamus]

Those are all completely different because they compound on each other and you know it. Each stage of Archery gives +10% , where as the Int Mastery just flat out invalidates the previous perk entirely. It's not compounding to build on the prior one, it just out and out replaces it

Also the difference is it's a mastery, so losing one of your main capstone abilities hurts extra hard too. I definitely agree the full mastery is hilariously strong and will almost certainly get nerfed

They should replace the 5th level int mastery with something else like "Robotic Turrets now stagger enemies" or at least slow them or *something*. Currently they don't really do anything because enemies run through, and if you have a set up so that the enemies can't just run past them, they don't do enough damage to justify all the time spent mining.

This doesn't really make any sense. Archery is okay because it goes from 10% to 20%, but stun baton isn't okay even though it's just going from 50% to 100%? It's the same thing. You are stacking percentages. It's just worded differently, but the effect is the same. And whether or not it's called a "mastery" doesn't change that it's just another perk with different ranks.

Archery +10% then +20%. It could also be listed as +10% and then +10% more.
Stun Baton +50% then +100%. It could also be listed as +50% and then +50% more.

Archery, +20% replaces +10% (you don't get both).
Stun Baton +100% replaces +50% (you don't get both).

It looks exactly the same to me other than the percentage amounts. It doesn't matter how it is worded. It matters what the effect is. And these are the same.

 

[Adam the Waster]

For those (like myself) who ask about temperature or anything

@SylenThunder has a post from discord about temperature.

Now send it to jawoodle to shut him lmao

 

[Space4Ace]

However I would also tell them that they have strayed away from much of the survival aspects of the Game.

The game used to be more about survival only because a lot of features were not implemented yet. You were basically playing only a few parts of what the full game is going to offer later on.
With 2.0, the game is getting closer to TFP's vision on what 7 Days to Die should be. People are free to play an older Alpha version if they think it's better than 2.0.
Also consider that some features might not actually be complete and some new additions in later updates will help with balancing the overall game.

You can now step down from your soapbox.

 

[CyberHellKen]

Modders have the luxury of doing their thing as a hobby. Modders don't have to worry about filing for bankruptcy due to their products being so niche and harcore that only a handful of people are interested in them.

No developer can be expected to cater to every individual player's specific tastes in game mechanics, or difficulty levels, or anything else. And very few developers build into their games the massive level of very powerful mod support that we enjoy with 7 Days to Die.

Without The Fun Pimps, there wouldn't be a game to mod in the first place. People need to remember that.

You said this far better than I did. I appreciate the base game for what it is and also happily enjoy the modder's works to give me so much variety that I can still come back to vanilla and get continued enjoyment. This is the game I'd want with me if stranded on a desert island, mods or no mods. My largest complaint is that I keep neglecting my vast backlog of games to play 7 Days in some shape or form.

 

[Adam the Waster]

The game used to be more about survival only because a lot of features were not implemented yet. You were basically playing only a few parts of what the full game is going to offer later on.
With 2.0, the game is getting closer to TFP's vision on what 7 Days to Die should be. People are free to play an older Alpha version if they think it's better than 2.0.
Also consider that some features might not actually be complete and some new additions in later updates will help with balancing the overall game.

You can now step down from your soapbox.

I heavily disagree,
"The game used to be more about survival only because a lot of features were not implemented yet"

That's great, but why in the hell would they basicly change the whole genre of the game from a survival, rpg, horde, etc to a mostly rpg with survival.

If it's like the temperature thing where they are working on it due to the armor system messing everything up? Fair play.

But it's one thing to start small and evolve. Then start small, evolve and then evolve into something else.

If joel came in rn and said 'yeah this was our plan the whole time" you know what fair. I disagree but fair. But you or I don't know.

But it just feel strange that we had those features and are now gone. If 7dtd came out RN as is it now with early access lable then no one would say anything. But they didn't and it feels like they flip flop alot.

Not many games have the luxury of 7dtd that have a constant development for what 13 years I think. And get funding via the players and we get to play it. But they changed things

TLDR: if 7dtd came out rn no one would say anything

 

[Khalagar]

Can anyone confirm if the farming perk increases your chance to get honey from stumps? It doesn't say it does, but I'm pretty positive it does.

I went from getting like 1 honey per 15 stumps, to getting like 5 honey from 8 stumps. I know RNG gonna RNG, but I'm almost positive that going from 0 to 3 in the farming perk is the cause lol

If the mastery 4 said charge faster by 50% and the mastery 5 said charge faster by 100% you would be ok with it?

You're getting stuck on the way it's worded.

This doesn't really make any sense. Archery is okay because it goes from 10% to 20%, but stun baton isn't okay even though it's just going from 50% to 100%? It's the same thing. You are stacking percentages. It's just worded differently, but the effect is the same. And whether or not it's called a "mastery" doesn't change that it's just another perk with different ranks.

The difference is it's NOT stacking, it flat out replaces the older perk. It's not "stun Baton does X more damage" it's "Int Mastery 5 makes Int Mastery 4 completely cease to exist" which is really weird. Imagine if the Agility perk line went "Chance to cripple enemies legs" and then the very next perk was "100% chance to remove an enemies leg per shot". It would be a really weird progression because one perk was just flat out replaced by the next one

I just looked and not a single other mastery perk is balanced that way. And it's not that it's not good, because it's actually hilariously broken, it's that it robs the Int Mastery of having another perk in it. The int weapons besides stun baton are pretty meh, so that extra mastery perk could do a lot of good instead of just being immediately replaced

 

[EvilPolygons]

But it's one thing to start small and evolve. Then start small, evolve and then evolve into something else.

Evolution is like a box of chocolate. You never know what you're gonna get.

 

[Uncle Al]

The difference is it's NOT stacking, it flat out replaces the older perk. It's not "stun Baton does X more damage" it's "Int Mastery 5 makes Int Mastery 4 completely cease to exist" which is really weird. Imagine if the Agility perk line went "Chance to cripple enemies legs" and then the very next perk was "100% chance to remove an enemies leg per shot". It would be a really weird progression because one perk was just flat out replaced by the next one

I just looked and not a single other mastery perk is balanced that way. And it's not that it's not good, because it's actually hilariously broken, it's that it robs the Int Mastery of having another perk in it. The int weapons besides stun baton are pretty meh, so that extra mastery perk could do a lot of good instead of just being immediately replaced

It is stacking. You're getting caught up in semantics.

Look at the basic attribute bonuses:

Rank 1, 200% headshot damage and a 5% chance to dismember.

Rank 2, 210% headshot damage and a 10% chance to dismember.

They're not additive. You don't actually have 410% headshot damage at rank 2. That means the second level of bonuses are flat out replacing the first, right?

Except they're really not, rank 1 is +100%/+5% and rank 2 is an extra +10%/+5%. Same for INT mastery. Rank 4 is +50%. Rank 5 is another +50%. Exactly the same as Fortitude's +50 health at rank 4 and another +50 health at rank 5. That doesn't mean 'getting rank 5 means 4 is wasted' because rank 4 is the first half of what you get at rank 5.

Look at it this way, if you could take mastery perks out of order, then just taking rank 5 INT mastery without rank 4 wouldn't give you 100% baton charge. Either of them would give you 50% baton charge and taking both would give you 100%.

 

[Adam the Waster]

It is stacking. You're getting caught up in semantics.

Look at the basic attribute bonuses:

Rank 1, 200% headshot damage and a 5% chance to dismember.

Rank 2, 210% headshot damage and a 10% chance to dismember.

They're not additive. You don't actually have 410% headshot damage at rank 2. That means the second level of bonuses are flat out replacing the first, right?

Except they're really not, rank 1 is +100%/+5% and rank 2 is an extra +10%/+5%. Same for INT mastery. Rank 4 is +50%. Rank 5 is another +50%. Exactly the same as Fortitude's +50 health at rank 4 and another +50 health at rank 5. That doesn't mean 'getting rank 5 means 4 is wasted' because rank 4 is the first half of what you get at rank 5.

Look at it this way, if you could take mastery perks out of order, then just taking rank 5 INT mastery without rank 4 wouldn't give you 100% baton charge. Either of them would give you 50% baton charge and taking both would give you 100%.

I just wish it was a different buff like place a extra robot down and have 3 sledges!!!

 

[Old Crow]

@faatal Not sure if this is your wheelhouse - Any chance the Stealth Boots mod will start displaying changes on the character sheet soon? Kind of annoying and weird that it says it has a noise reduction, but my boots still show +10% to noise. They also don't display the stamina penalty reduction.

 

[faatal]

@faatal Not sure if this is your wheelhouse - Any chance the Stealth Boots mod will start displaying changes on the character sheet soon? Kind of annoying and weird that it says it has a noise reduction, but my boots still show +10% to noise. They also don't display the stamina penalty reduction.

It is not, but I sent it to Allan.