PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary

[ilexev]

There was an ambitious PvP project planned, by the way. How about reviving TFP a bit so they might think it's worth it?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:11 AM

After the 3.0 of course

 

[Grandpa Minion]

The important thing at this point is a few features are being brought back,
the overall consensus and polls on that is very good.
If tfp took the next 5 years to reinstate removed items and to focus on bugs before adding bandits would be perfectly fine with me.

 

[Riamus]

Are you sure you really wanna do this?

Content? What kind of content? The fact that it's either your way or the highway?

You're the one who just insulted THE WHOLE FORUM saying that we're all just a bunch of fanboys, and YOU are telling me about ad hominem attacks? At least mine was a joke meant to roast you for your continued behavior on this forum, but you weren't even joking.

You've been relentlessly nagging TFP for the same information over and over, telling them how they should handle their PR, basically accusing them of deceiving their player base. You've been spamming the forums with the same requests, over and over, and we've all been patient and understanding with you.

Now I dare to make a joke poking fun at you, but no, HIS majesty calls it an ad hominem attack?
If that's your attitude then I'm done with you. You deserve all the ridicule that's coming on you. SMH.

Yeah, I mostly just ignore him or don't reply to him directly very often anymore because it's just not worth it. His behavior is borderline (sometimes over the line) trolling at this point. No one can have any different view than he does or they are wrong and a fanboy and whatever else. It's sad to waste so much time complaining.

 

[Roland]

The important thing at this point is a few features are being brought back,
the overall consensus and polls on that is very good.
If tfp took the next 5 years to reinstate removed items and to focus on bugs before adding bandits would be perfectly fine with me.

Now you’re pushing for 5 years? You must really feel intimidated by the arrival of bandits. You must think their inclusion will be the final nail in the coffin for some aspect of the game that is super important to you.

 

[Jost Amman]

Now you’re pushing for 5 years? You must really feel intimidated by the arrival of bandits. You must think their inclusion will be the final nail in the coffin for some aspect of the game that is super important to you.

Imagine if TFP named one of the bandit NPCs Grandpa Minion!
He would be the terror of all PvE players, I'm sure!

 

[HammerDano]

Are you sure you really wanna do this?

yup

Content? What kind of content? The fact that it's either your way or the highway?

You're the one who just insulted THE WHOLE FORUM saying that we're all just a bunch of fanboys, and YOU are telling me about ad hominem attacks? At least mine was a joke meant to roast you for your continued behavior on this forum, but you weren't even joking.

You've been relentlessly nagging TFP for the same information over and over, telling them how they should handle their PR, basically accusing them of deceiving their player base. You've been spamming the forums with the same requests, over and over, and we've all been patient and understanding with you.

I am not basically accusing them...I flat out said it.

Now I dare to make a joke poking fun at you, but no, HIS majesty calls it an ad hominem attack?
If that's your attitude then I'm done with you. You deserve all the ridicule that's coming on you. SMH.

yes, ad hominem, it's when you attack the person and not the content of their response.

can you dispute what I said about the road map timings NEVER being achievable? that you CANNOT have well defined tight schedule AND have an OPEN ENDED development? Because, I do think that the road map with dates was a lie to get as many new console and old console gamers to buy the game. It was combined with FOMO and they did tell lies that the game would not be on sale again "for a very long time". THAT was the content you don't engage with. Just so you don't have to go looking...here is the post.

Be honest, this is a fan club disguised as a forum...even asking basic questions can start an avalanche of over reaction. That's not healthy. imo
THEY DO NOT communicate this stuff out in a timely fashion. Like, for example, letting people know that 2.5 has been pushed back several weeks. You guys are the exception...not the rule...people bought this game taking them at their word...are they supposed to be as expert as YOU at reading TFP's tea leaves? NO...the game is very late, TFP should do what is uncomfortable for them...and communicate in an on going manner, much as I have described many times: State what you intend, as the time gets closer amend the message. They can still have "surprise content" they do not tell us about, because we won't know about it until it is released anyways. Not trying to get privy information.


I disagree somewhat. There was never going to be a realistic timeline BECAUSE the original road map dates were never achievable. They were a lie that served a couple of purposes 1) to get more console players to buy in/buy back in 2) to get an unfinished game on the console platforms (for the pedants - there is a big difference from a tight schedule of a year and a half...and having no schedule AT ALL)

Since then it seems TFP find it easier to just ignore any criticism about THIS or to communicate about why they are so far behind.

I do agree with you that TFP seem to be unable to make a accurate estimate of time expectation past a month...which is why I keep advocating for short term communication. It isn't to make them look bad...it is because THAT is where they are most accurate.

so yup I do hound them for communication....because they ARE far behind THEIR schedule...I am not trying to force them to crack the whip...or put out a buggy mess...which I get accused of often.
You and Riamus both say that you are "done with me" but will keep on side line sniping with out actually Engaging in refuting what I have said.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Well, every few days, during the night, when they're closed to the public, a chopper comes from somewhere outside of the quarantine zone and restocks them!

I believe that to be a future, enhancement. I know they have
both hands full at the moment, and that isn't priority. But
presently they don't air drop, unless they are using Blue thunder
or air wolf. "Age reference again"

I only say this because, of the streamers that seem to favor
being a stones throw away from the trader, and staying in their
encampment to craft all night. Other than watching Neebs for entertainment,
I watch the others to see how a mod plays out before I download to play it
and that is a favored starting point.

Although, I do like the thought of that as a future addin, as they
begin to incorporate the the new theme. That and having it be dangerous
in the immediate area of the traders. Deliveries and pickups being done
periodically by the factions by air and by ground. Even as inspiration
for a mod.

It could create a whole new set of player related interactions, choices,
and situations.

I have no real expectations, but using that tag as all of their default
in the template, and ric never having been seen yet. That coupled with
the possible desire to keep any story inclusion as simple as possible.

Faatal spoke briefly of events, the flatspot mechanic, the addition of the heli
pads, Jen's constant interjection of stem packs. The injection of another humanesque
element. It just makes it seem that the traders are to have a more active role to
the game itself in the future. It implies extremely vaguely, of a simplistic version
of reputation in order to trade.

 

[Roland]

Be honest, this is a fan club disguised as a forum...even asking basic questions can start an avalanche of over reaction.

This is a community of fans and it is a forum. It is a moderated forum with the mission of keeping things generally positive. Criticism is allowed and not censored as long as it is respectfully delivered. There are many forums on the internet related to 7 Days to Die and most of them are either unmoderated or very permissive of negativity and toxic behavior. When unbridled attacks on the integrity and ability of the developers is allowed to flourish, those who love the game and agree with the devs are attacked, mocked, and piled on until they leave. Here, people who are fans have a place where they know they are not going to persecuted just because they like magazines, or storms, or biome progression.

People who dislike those things can voice their displeasure here and will be challenged and asked to defend their criticism but as long as they do it without personally attacking anyone (including the developers) their POV is heard and often shapes some of the balancing moves that TFP makes. There are so many other forums you can visit if what you want is to be able to ad hominem the developers without having to defend yourself. It's okay that there is one place where you can't do that.

Reactions to your posts are usually due to the way you go about it rather than the actual content of your request. @khzmusik basically asked the same question you did, got an answer from faatal that you wanted and mostly thumbs ups from the community. He even suggested making a new dev diary just for 2.5 and beyond to better communicate the developers' intentions and again got zero blow back for it. Why? Because he didn't call them liars and rage about something he had already raged about umpteen times. He was respectful and still delivered much the same criticism that you often do but to much greater effect. I wouldn't be surprised if @Crater Creator isn't considering starting a dev diary for the rest of the Town Hall request features. We'll see.

THEY DO NOT communicate this stuff out in a timely fashion. Like, for example, letting people know that 2.5 has been pushed back several weeks. You guys are the exception...not the rule...people bought this game taking them at their word...are they supposed to be as expert as YOU at reading TFP's tea leaves?

Yes, we are the exception. Which means you have PLENTY of places to go to rage about this stuff online and get tons of thumbs ups and support. Here, moderation in expectations and reactions to change are much more chill. In Pimps We Trust. We are fans not just of the way the game used to be but of the living developmental process of it. When changes disappoint us we discuss it--sometimes heatedly-- but those who just can't deal with the changes and remain civil go away either by their own choice because IZ Prebuilt's chat beckons them with exactly the type of discourse they want or because they start attacking people and are banned.

NO...the game is very late, TFP should do what is uncomfortable for them...and communicate in an on going manner, much as I have described many times: State what you intend, as the time gets closer amend the message. They can still have "surprise content" they do not tell us about, because we won't know about it until it is released anyways. Not trying to get privy information.

I agree. We all want more communication. The difference is that after voicing it and knowing TFP heard a long time ago, we have been willing to let them be them. It's fine to tell them that you want things done a different way once or twice. But going on and on about it isn't helpful. If they don't want to do it your way no amount of griping about it will change anything but just cause discord and strife in the community.

 

[HammerDano]

can you dispute what I said about the road map timings NEVER being achievable? that you CANNOT have well defined tight schedule AND have an OPEN ENDED development? Because, I do think that the road map with dates was a lie to get as many new console and old console gamers to buy the game. It was combined with FOMO and they did tell lies that the game would not be on sale again "for a very long time".

@Roland care to answer that...because it is kinda central to WHY I am inclined to keep asking for better communication, to not just "let it go". The "town hall" was unprecedented...until it happened.

 

[Roland]

Sure...but I doubt it will satisfy you. You're on a mission. You've stated your position and been responded to by one of the developers so you know they've read your demands and expectations. Now it's their choice to make those changes closer to what you want or to continue in the way they have been going. There's no need for you to continue to harp on it. You can't force change. They have to come to the decision themselves.

can you dispute what I said about the road map timings NEVER being achievable?

Of course. I was there when they wrote it up and approved it. No mustaches were being twirled evilly. No maniacal laughter was included. They were purely joyful that they were leaving early access, delivering a unified game across several platforms that would soon have full cross-platform capabilities. It was a great milestone and they were excited about outlining the rest of the features they wanted in the game. They knew that timelines can suffer delays and so included the disclaimer that the dates were subject to change. I dispute that they lied simply to sucker people into buying the game. I dispute that more than 1% even paid attention to the roadmap or cared about the scheduling.

that you CANNOT have well defined tight schedule AND have an OPEN ENDED development?

When did they ever say their development is open ended? Fans say that they don't care if development could just continue forever but that's not them. They do want to wrap up the game and move on to new projects. They aren't dragging this on with no end in mind. They set goals because they wanted something to shoot for. Internally they have new goals for when they will be done with different phases. They choose to keep those to themselves right now. Your expectation is that dates are a schedule that must be kept. That doesn't necessarily reflect reality in software development. Your perspective on this is skewed enough that by your accounting according to your universe, the devs must be lying when they pass an estimated date. This is not a military organization....

Because, I do think that the road map with dates was a lie to get as many new console and old console gamers to buy the game. It was combined with FOMO and they did tell lies that the game would not be on sale again "for a very long time".

You're wrong. It's all made up in your own mind and you have no proof of your allegations. I just looked at the Playstation store and the game still sells for $44.99 a year and a half later. People predicted that price point was way too high and that the price would drop like a rock within a few months. But it hasn't. It's maintained its pricepoint when other games that came out at the same time have dropped to half their original price by this point. Why? Because it is selling well at the price point. For software to maintain their early adoption pricing for the length of time 7 Days to Die has is remarkable. Nintendo does it with their own games for their own platform but 7 Days to Die has no exclusivity contract and TFP doesn't own their own platform to keep the prices high. The price is as high as it is purely due to market demand and that means the game is doing well.

When the game goes on sale and for how long is not within the full control of the devs. The stores that sell the game have the right to run sales so if the game went on sale sooner in your mind than "a long long time" it doesn't mean that there was deception involved. Eventually the game will drop in price. It's inevitable. But so far the prediction that it would take a long long time for the sale price to drop to where it was during Alpha phase looks to be true.

 

[Blake_]

Last I heard it was 3x the cost !? Are you assuming that will slip with further development?

Well, yes, I hope so in the short term... in a sense? 3x the cost might not be THAT huge. It means obstacle avoidance, basic team tactics, a bit of weapon switching, basic covering and peeking, and MAYBE: item/weapon pick up, driving and/ or trigger activation, like levers, buttons, etc. Those last few don't require huge amounts of power to compute and can be done effectively.

But 5x the cost needs more, as they could become basic bots, that "build" and plan, with a proper dedicated AI manager, with something like behavioural trees or even tied to a "shadow of mordor" system in which a bandit escapes or somehow survives your sledgehammer and generates a quest in which he becomes higher level and spouts a couple of phrases and all that. It might be possible to avoid that huge of a big-shot AI and just make an event system that tracks bandits that escape and despawns them to evolve them later. They talked about road encounters and stuff like that, and an AI manager is already in for zds, so it can really go either way.

Emergent gameplay is the sole reason why this game has a high resistance to boredom, anything that adds to it will just be a boon. Also, it's not really the same to kill a bandit called "bandit marrauder" vs killing one named "Trolland the mathematician" . Named entities like Grace are the
go-to method for flavour and sense of acomplishment.

And just imagine how all of that comes together with a huge storm and a bunch of zds thrown into the mix. 3x. Yeah. Maybe.