PC V2.0 Delayed Again

HammerDano said:
three delays on the first goal...is there any point at which you can agree that is too long?  where in the roadmap or in the dev streams did they say it would be at least a couple more years not a year and a half? I missed that. I will ask you directly...do you think "all dates subject to change" reasonably means years...not weeks or months at most?

There is zero chance I will ever participate in a TFP project in progress again. and yes, I won't miss you either. lol
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Well, considering the roadmap is not even 3 1/2 months overdue and if they release in May, it would be under 5 months overdue, that isn't "years".  If you mean total time... well, it was already indicated to be around a couple of years from when 1.0 was released.

And that is your choice.  You made the choice this time to buy a game that wasn't complete... twice.  Clearly, that isn't a good option for you, and there isn't anything wrong with not liking to wait for a game.  Better to just buy games that are finished in the future.

 
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Riamus said:
Well, considering the roadmap is not even 3 1/2 months overdue and if they release in May, it would be under 5 months overdue, that isn't "years".

And that is your choice.  You made the choice this time to buy a game that wasn't complete... twice.  Clearly, that isn't a good option for you, and there isn't anything wrong with not liking to wait for a game.  Better to just buy games that are finished in the future.
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lol...just going to ignore the time up to the first delay as not counting? 

IF 2.0 goes to experimental in May it will be mid to end june before it gets to console...fingers crossed...so almost a year after launching the game...you can math that any way you wish...and that is just for the first stop on the roadmap. 

we had one month to cash in our Legacy console loyalty reward...one month. You can say "you didn't have to buy back in"...great attitude. thanks.

It is a never again for me with these guys...i seriously doubt they will ever bottle lightning twice. and if they do? I won't be going through any of the growing pains. 

not that I will live THAT long.

 
Riamus said:
Well, considering the roadmap is not even 3 1/2 months overdue and if they release in May, it would be under 5 months overdue, that isn't "years".  If you mean total time... well, it was already indicated to be around a couple of years from when 1.0 was released.

And that is your choice.  You made the choice this time to buy a game that wasn't complete... twice.  Clearly, that isn't a good option for you, and there isn't anything wrong with not liking to wait for a game.  Better to just buy games that are finished in the future.
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By the logic of people like him, we wait 5 years between new versions😄

 
HammerDano said:
says the player base that does not do without...how is it so hard for PC gamers to understand that console is getting slow rolled on a relaunch to @%$#ing console. go ahead...keep telling me to be patient...dollars to donuts you would not be quiet if the rolls were reversed. 2.0 will drop when it drops...i didn't sign on for 3-4 more years of loosey goosey development until the game is complete, but, here we are. We had to wait for rwg...we had to wait for peer to peer...at this point I don't think we are ever going to get dedicated servers for console...I sure am not getting any encouraging answers about it, am I? 
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Send your complaints to Micro$oft and $ony for your delays to console, or better yet get a PC. Your crying here isn't going to make them move any faster.

 
HammerDano said:
did I pretend that it was a definitive answer? no I did not.
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Hmm. That sounds similar to putting timeframes on a roadmap. Did they pretend Q4 2024 was the definitive release time? No they didn't. They even put a disclaimer just like you did. 

Listen...I helped invent internet arguing. I know what's going on here. You're always giving yourself an exit. "But I said it wasn't definitive". But then you try to legitimize it by saying "it correlates...blah blah blah".

Just shoot straight. 

The problem is, I don't think there's anything that you can shoot at. You just want to vent your frustrations and create a neatly wrapped up boogie man to blame. And also you just want the back and forth. You said that you would complain to Sony & Microsoft if you believed they were truly at fault for the dedicated server delay. Why didn't you? It would be an opportunity to call TFP's bluff. Well, you won't complain to them because you wouldn't get the back and forth from them that you get here. 

 
HammerDano said:
lol...just going to ignore the time up to the first delay as not counting? 

IF 2.0 goes to experimental in May it will be mid to end june before it gets to console...fingers crossed...so almost a year after launching the game...you can math that any way you wish...and that is just for the first stop on the roadmap. 

we had one month to cash in our Legacy console loyalty reward...one month. You can say "you didn't have to buy back in"...great attitude. thanks.

It is a never again for me with these guys...i seriously doubt they will ever bottle lightning twice. and if they do? I won't be going through any of the growing pains. 

not that I will live THAT long.
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What ignored delay?  2.0 was on the roadmap for Q4 2024, which is less than 3 1/2 months past (December 31 is still Q4).  If you are claiming a delay for dedicated servers and not for 2.0, then that is a different topic.  I replied to you talking about 2.0.  And I don't think they made any statement saying that dedicated servers would be available right when 1.0 was released.  If they did (I would like to see where), then you can say it was a delay from what they stated.

Even if it is early June for stable, it is still nowhere near years. 

And no one here cares if you ever buy another game from them.  Stating it is pointless.  There are plenty of people who will.

Arez said:
And also you just want the back and forth.
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Seems that way, doesn't it?  😀

 
Arez said:
Hmm. That sounds similar to putting timeframes on a roadmap. Did they pretend Q4 2024 was the definitive release time? No they didn't. They even put a disclaimer just like you did. 

Listen...I helped invent internet arguing. I know what's going on here. You're always giving yourself an exit. "But I said it wasn't definitive". But then you try to legitimize it by saying "it correlates...blah blah blah".

Just shoot straight. 

The problem is, I don't think there's anything that you can shoot at. You just want to vent your frustrations and create a neatly wrapped up boogie man to blame. And also you just want the back and forth. You said that you would complain to Sony & Microsoft if you believed they were truly at fault for the dedicated server delay. Why didn't you? It would be an opportunity to call TFP's bluff. Well, you won't complain to them because you wouldn't get the back and forth from them that you get here. 
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 Why have I not led a crusade against Sony and Micro Soft even though there is no proof that it is their fault that 7 dtd can't/didn't pass certification? you on crack?

 I leave myself exits? lets hear them.

 
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HammerDano said:
three delays on the first goal...is there any point at which you can agree that is too long?  where in the roadmap or in the dev streams did they say it would be at least a couple more years not a year and a half? I missed that. I will ask you directly...do you think "all dates subject to change" reasonably means years...not weeks or months at most?
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See that's the problem here.  I've been playing and having fun with this game for years.  I've known that with their small team that development is slow, and at times mistakes were made.  I have no issue with where the game is now, and didn't expect any of the timeframes to be met.  Honestly i'm a little surprised they are being met as quickly as they are.

HammerDano said:
There is zero chance I will ever participate in a TFP project in progress again. and yes, I won't miss you either. lol
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Bye i guess??  But what's with the missing line?  I'm really confused why you would say that.  Did i tell you to go away?  Did i say i won't miss you, or anything like that?  It just seems weird that you would bring that up.

 
4sheetzngeegles said:
@SylenThunder

That part I found out, when I was checking other games that have been successful

with crossplatform. That is also why I mentioned Fortnite, When I was reading

to understand, It was the one game that seemed to be able to support the most

platforms. Then I read that they are using EOS also. I know that its unreal engine,

but I didn't know if that has any bearing. But Riamus pretty much explained it.

Whomever is having to deal with that roundrobin situation. I offer a constant virtual 

pat on the back.
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EOS is only used to generate a common ID for the player over all platforms (AFAIK), this is only a small part of the network protocols used by the game.

 
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HammerDano said:
Why have I not led a crusade against Sony and Micro Soft even though there is no proof that it is their fault that 7 dtd can't/didn't pass certification? you on crack?
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TFP has said that Sony & MS are the reason. So right now it's in Sony & MS's court. If you really cared about the situation more than you care about complaining then you would hit up Sony & MS. Like I said, if they were to tell you that it's actually TFP's fault, you would have some precious cargo on your TFP hate train.

What it sounds like to me is that you really don't care if it's Sony & MS's fault. I suspect it's because they will not indulge you like you get indulged here.

HammerDano said:
I leave myself exits? lets hear them.
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I already said - you'll say things like "...I know it's not definitive proof but..." to give yourself a backdoor in case you get challenged. "Well I said it wasn't definitive"...but you said it. That's from chapter 1 of Internet Arguing.

 
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HammerDano said:
Strangely, i agree about this one. Storm's Brewing implied dynamic weather...environmental hazards alone wasn't cutting it with the fan base...so they decided last minute to fix a self inflicted injury. imo

I take it your answer to the original question is no...it is never mission creep.
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Ah sorry, didn't see that question. If we talk about any of the alpha versions there was definitely feature creep. And when we look at how the game started with a small scope and they blew up the game because of the success then yes, there is a lot of mission creep there, obvious and to a large part with willful intent 😉.

HammerDano said:
I grouped this together because if you think about it...you did answer your own question. X and ps5 can have 4 in a party...S can have 2...which would have been nice to know before hand. Why wouldn't we want better options? why wouldn't we want dedicated instead of peer to peer? All of my friends play multi player games...there's close to 30 of us who play Rust together in loose groups, obviously we don't expect to have all of us to be able to be  on a server at the same time, but, they are not interested in wasting half the night getting 4 people connected at the same time.
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Ok. So in my view we are both somewhat right. The missing dedicated-server feature is not different or more basic than other still missing features, it just is the most important missing feature for your specific situation. But if you had heard something about 8 players multiplayer being supported by 7D2D then I can imagine how bad the surprise was when the actual numbers were much lower. As I don't frequent console shops I don't know if it was possibly to know this before buying or not. It would be an important number to know for me as well, at least for multiplayer games that I want to play with friends.

HammerDano said:
maybe they did and maybe they didn't...I don't know, but, I do think we should be better informed. I don't know why they would not tell us what why and when...other than telling us would put them in a bad light? like perhaps they had security issues due to 3rd party servers for PC that they knew would be a problem when trying to get permissions for console from Sony and MS? who knows really? just speculation.
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Anything between them and Sony/MS is probably under NDA, and even if not they would certainly generate bad vibes if they talked about details without consultation.  So no, I don't expect to get the slightest info about this, at max there may be a summary AFTER everything had been wrapped up. This is exactly as expected.

HammerDano said:
I'd suggest asking GROK yourself...you'd be able to refine your questions. What I asked was: approx. how long does it take a developer to get permissions for crossplay and for dedicated severs?
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At the moment searching yourself for reliable info is still much better than asking an AI. Not faster, not easier and you'll never get a summary. But you can not depend on the information unless you check how the AI arrived at that knowledge. Thankfully DeepSeek showed everyone the way.

 
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HammerDano said:
 Why have I not led a crusade against Sony and Micro Soft even though there is no proof that it is their fault that 7 dtd can't/didn't pass certification? you on crack?

I leave myself exits? lets hear them.
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At this point getting dedicated released is currently on us as we have been waiting for 2.0 to be in a good working state to do a submission for it, but delays keep happening. In hindsight we could have tried to push it through with a 1.x release, but the "we will be done any week now" mindset held it back. If we had a time machine, we could go back and try to fix all kind of things, but we don't, so we can't.

I really don't care who you blame or what you crusade against as long as you don't clutter up this forum with a bunch of idle chatter. All people and companies make mistakes and we know about our mistakes as we do talk about what we could do better as any business should. That being said, mistakes are often repeated and lessons can be hard to learn. For my part, I am focused on getting things done and not wasting my time dwelling on past mistakes.

 
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One thing that I think is important to point out is that some features of 2.0 have already been released in some of the 1.x updates. Crossplay is all that is mentioned on the roadmap and technically that has already been delivered in a minimal form. Random Gen for consoles has also been delivered. So it isn't exactly accurate to say that the entire 2.0 update has been delayed. Console players are able to play multiplayer games right now on random maps. Improvements to that will come.

 
faatal said:
At this point getting dedicated released is currently on us as we have been waiting for 2.0 to be in a good working state to do a submission for it, but delays keep happening. In hindsight we could have tried to push it through with a 1.x release, but the "we will be done any week now" mindset held it back. If we had a time machine, we could go back and try to fix all kind of things, but we don't, so we can't.
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thank you for putting that out there.

 
Roland said:
One thing that I think is important to point out is that some features of 2.0 have already been released in some of the 1.x updates. Crossplay is all that is mentioned on the roadmap and technically that has already been delivered in a minimal form. Random Gen for consoles has also been delivered. So it isn't exactly accurate to say that the entire 2.0 update has been delayed. Console players are able to play multiplayer games right now on random maps. Improvements to that will come.
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thank you for splitting this off and for starting with the post you chose. It is how I feel...and I know my friends, I can't tell them to spend money on game they can't really reliably play together. 

yes, some of the features...which we should have had on launch finally became available for console users, before 2.0 has been released. Man...i reiterate...this has not been a great roll out to console. imo

great title for the thread by the way...two birds with one stone. honestly, well done.

 
Arez said:
🤯You were right! It was said we were waiting on Sony and Microsoft, but it hasn't even gotten to them yet. 🤔
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Not sure. I understand Fataal saying that the current implementation has not been submitted yet. That doesn't mean they didn't get a laundry list of changes from Sony/Microsoft after submitting a then-current state of the game at a past date. Which would better fit with past communication, unless I misunderstood completely.

 
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