PC Unofficial A17 Feedback Survey

The developers should do something like this for every alpha. At least once would be good even if they don't do it regularly. Empyrion has started doing it and it seems to be working out well for them.

http://survey.empyriongame.com/index.php/584288?lang=en

Example of their survey. Theirs doesn't require sign in though. There's good and bad to that. On one hand, it's easier for people to make multiple responses, but on the other hand, many people won't participate in the survey if they have to log in to do it, especially if they don't have an account created.

 
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There seems to be a boatload of new threads about A17. To add an alternative, more structured way of collecting feedback, I created this survey:
https://goo.gl/forms/Cs66bbZ0dz6klyqB3

(Requires sign in to limit each person to 1 submission.)

I hope the results prove useful to the devs.
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That's a good idea. You got my votes ^^

Though its a bit 2-dimensional since we can't explain our picks, but at least we would be able to get a better picture of what needs to be addressed.

The "no opinion" choice is a two-sided blade if evaluated wrong. So I hope anyone looking at the results takes the more critical approach of evaluating this choice.

 
I proposed something like this to Roland. Apparently they plan to get our feedback in a more structured way after the A17e has been online for a little longer - reason is that they feel like many players are still changing their opinion.

Let's see and hope they mean it. Regarding your survey - I would break it down however. Zombie AI has little to do with the block damage they do and can be addressed individually. Stealth system per se is good - however, the level of stealth required to not attract zombies is not balanced in my opinion. I think there were more than those two where i thought the answer could go either way.

 
The problem is that for a survey to actually show the opinion of players, it need to be taken by a large cross-section of players - not just a self-selecting subset (players who post on the forum and have strong opinions).

Short of spamming out the survey link with the game (on the main menu or something), that's very hard to do.

Any survey just posted here (or even posted here and on the Steam discussion) is going to give results that are skewed to the point of uselessness.

 
I disagree Tea.

Your hypothesis would mean that those with stronger opinions (pro or contra) are mostly on the forums.

But if that were true (most ppl just dislike using forums) then the ones in the middle are not going to give their opinions anyways.

So how do you suppose we "test" what the median is?

And even if you do, don't you think most ppl in the forums have taken the most time evaluating the game?

I know 7 ppl who have never been to the forums, most of them think the game is fine, no matter what TFPs change. Because they just want to play casual.

So if they are fine either way, we might as well try to find the best path for those who DO care.

 
The problem is that for a survey to actually show the opinion of players, it need to be taken by a large cross-section of players - not just a self-selecting subset (players who post on the forum and have strong opinions).
Short of spamming out the survey link with the game (on the main menu or something), that's very hard to do.

Any survey just posted here (or even posted here and on the Steam discussion) is going to give results that are skewed to the point of uselessness.
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I agree, eventhough I think its a good idea from OP - and there's no real better way of doing it- it will always be biased because of reaching only a small (fanatic) part of the playerbase. It should have a link in the launcher but I doubt TFP will ever do that as they have to react to the results, which they have never been really fond of doing.

 
I disagree Tea.Your hypothesis would mean that those with stronger opinions (pro or contra) are mostly on the forums.

But if that were true (most ppl just dislike using forums) then the ones in the middle are not going to give their opinions anyways.

So how do you suppose we "test" what the median is?

And even if you do, don't you think most ppl in the forums have taken the most time evaluating the game?

I know 7 ppl who have never been to the forums, most of them think the game is fine, no matter what TFPs change. Because they just want to play casual.

So if they are fine either way, we might as well try to find the best path for those who DO care.
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It's not "my hypothesis" it's well-established Polling Methodology 101.

 
So how do you suppose we "test" what the median is?

And even if you do, don't you think most ppl in the forums have taken the most time evaluating the game?

I know 7 ppl who have never been to the forums, most of them think the game is fine, no matter what TFPs change. Because they just want to play casual.

So if they are fine either way, we might as well try to find the best path for those who DO care.
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Tell me Tea. I really want to know how you would do that.

You can't say its completly invalid, if that is the only data we can get.

 
There seems to be a boatload of new threads about A17. To add an alternative, more structured way of collecting feedback, I created this survey:
https://goo.gl/forms/Cs66bbZ0dz6klyqB3

(Requires sign in to limit each person to 1 submission.)

I hope the results prove useful to the devs.
Click to expand...
Just like modders fixing the game you just did the pimps' job. This is absolutely highly in their interest that they do this themselves. It's amazing that they are not trying to actually find out what people think. If they don't want to know - then they are just like every other developer *cough Bethesda*. If they didn't realize that they should ask these kinds of questions right now, then they need to get their act together as a company!

Cudos enragedcamel, good survey!

 
I wouldn't put the quality of AI AND block damage they do into one question in the poll, because I like the new AI for the most part - that is once they spawn in the world, but I still don't like they are really excavators capable of destroying even the sturdiest of defenses in seconds which is the second part of the question, so those two things should be separated for those who actually like the AI itself, just not the balance of their power, but to be fair I would like to add that I also HATE the zombie spawn system which is ridiculous as they spawn right in front of you OR right behind your back after you made sure you cleared that freaking room, this breaks immersion greatly, but not sure if this should be seen as a part of the AI or not. When I think of AI, I think of the way they behave when they are already spawned, not the system that manages how and when exactly they spawn.

 
I don't think you can or should lump zombie AI and block damage into a single question. I love one and hate the other. Just saying.

 
Well, it's a nice way for us forum users to see momentary opinion about it. My group of 4 co-op friends had only time to play through two horde night (both day 7) till now. Not enough to really know anything.

I won't log into google from this browser, will not vote, sorry. But I'm interested in the results :rapture:

Just like modders fixing the game you just did the pimps' job. This is absolutely highly in their interest that they do this themselves. It's amazing that they are not trying to actually find out what people think.
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The experimental is out for 2 weeks and has only one hasty bug fix pass applied, some balancing fixes are supposedly in the pipeline but not released yet. Roland said (I think even to you in another thread) that it is too early to make informed judgements. And at least in my case he is totally right, I definitely need more time to make up my mind, especially about the tower defense part. I have 2 new ideas at the moment that I first have to test out and I haven't even reached day 14, neither in the coop game nor in the SP game I started yesterday.

 
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Just like modders fixing the game you just did the pimps' job. This is absolutely highly in their interest that they do this themselves. It's amazing that they are not trying to actually find out what people think. If they don't want to know - then they are just like every other developer *cough Bethesda*. If they didn't realize that they should ask these kinds of questions right now, then they need to get their act together as a company!
Cudos enragedcamel, good survey!
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Except Bethesda has many good things that just work intuitively and once you get the hang of it, there's still lower amount of things you would like to complain about than things you actually like and truly enjoy.

 
I don't think you can or should lump zombie AI and block damage into a single question. I love one and hate the other. Just saying.
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Exactly my thoughts I wrote one post above yours lol

This is a good poll overall though, you know it shows that people actually care for the better future of the game and it's also good to know that you're not alone in this. Results so far clearly show me that I share the same feelings of the majority of players who participated in this poll.

 
Except Bethesda has many good things that just work intuitively and once you get the hang of it, there's still lower amount of things you would like to complain about than things you actually like and truly enjoy.
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Except that you never participated in an experimental release inside EA with bethesda.

 
Except that you never participated in an experimental release inside EA with bethesda.
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No one did lol but the point still stands, Bethesda has more good things than bad things and those good things just work the way that is acceptable by majority of players who like games from Bethesda in the first place.

 
Just like modders fixing the game you just did the pimps' job. This is absolutely highly in their interest that they do this themselves. It's amazing that they are not trying to actually find out what people think. If they don't want to know - then they are just like every other developer *cough Bethesda*. If they didn't realize that they should ask these kinds of questions right now, then they need to get their act together as a company!
Cudos enragedcamel, good survey!
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The issue is, TFP isnt really interested in players opinions, they have their own game in mind. Ofcourse they like input on what they bring, but thats about it. Someone brought up Empyrion devs who do these surveys (and I can confirm they do it A LOT), but Emp devs actually build the game based on players input. Emp in its current state is exactly made on the primary wishes of the playerbase from past surveys.

The thing with surveys being done by developers is, they are forcing themselves to develop according to that outcome.. something TFP/Madmole wouldnt like.

 
The issue is, TFP isnt really interested in players opinions, they have their own game in mind. Ofcourse they like input on what they bring, but thats about it. Someone brought up Empyrion devs who do these surveys (and I can confirm they do it A LOT), but Emp devs actually build the game based on players input. Emp in its current state is exactly made on the primary wishes of the playerbase from past surveys.The thing with surveys being done by developers is, they are forcing themselves to develop according to that outcome.. something TFP/Madmole wouldnt like.
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To be fair, I like the idea behind Empyrion, but I never understood the mechanics it uses. I guess your post partially explains why. Many people with different opinions trying to pull it more towards their own vision will simply tear it all apart in the end, if the developers wanted to make everyone happy. That's simply impossible, but what they could do is to try their best to find some sweet spot between all those visions, find some nice balance, take the best of all worlds so to speak and come up with the most intuitive and best possible result of that mixture, but never overdo things to the point that they no longer make sense.

 
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