PC Underground Threats & More

Underground Threats & More

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and one who shoots bandits on sight.

:p

Actually, the ventilation is a good idea, since..... the vent is then a beacon for zombies.

Heat map is already going to be there, but now they have a place to dig at.

(unless yer smart, and put the vents exiting into your drop pit. Bait for the trap. heh)

 
@meganoth

I was referring to your whole first and last paragraphs primarily, which were laden with sarcasm and essentially calling the ideas I support "lazy design" in a mocking way. I took it as very combative.

But differences aside, you do bring up some good points. I'm also a huge supporter of both sentry zombies and breadcrumbs, it's just that I've been primarily supporting ventilation. If you combine these suggestions what you have is a system that serves as a technology gate for reaching 100% safety underground as well as active underground threats (zombies following you underground from your entrance). As another user suggested, your vent could also generate heatmap which would bring zombies to the vented location (provided a player is present in the chunk) similar to the way screamers approach forges. Then through the breadcrumb system they may wander and try to find a way to engage you, or they may start digging - forcing you to build defenses for your intake/exhaust system. In normal situations, maybe there would just be a few zombies near the entrance to your mine and that's it. Maybe there would be "events" like the wandering hordes where zombies would follow the breadcrumb trail down into your mine once a day or so. Not too much to make it frustrating to mine, but enough to keep the player engaged underground. And of course on 7th nights you'd be automatically hunted which would make hiding underground astronomically difficult if not impossible without a significant investment in defenses. From a base-building perspective it could be fun and interesting to develop systems to establish yourself underground. Maybe it would be too complicated for the average player (or rather, too complicated to communicate to the player) so a simpler solution like diggers and breadcrumbs would have to be employed. That's ultimately up to TFP.

One of the big perks of a ventilation system IMO would be the necessity of vent intake and exhaust in PvP scenarios to discourage players from having a cheesy underground safehaven for their bases. Players could still attempt to conceal their exhaust but it would give detectives some form of telltale sign that a base is in the area. In the past, the sound radii were large enough that you could stalk players using sound. Now the map is much smaller but the sound radii are far too small so the chance that you encounter another player through anything other than sheer luck is minimal, which isn't as exciting from a PvP standpoint. Don't worry, I know the game isn't being made for PvP, but that's how I play the game so it naturally plays a part in my perspective here. I think there are possible solutions that could be fun from both a PvE standpoint and a PvP standpoint. And maybe ventilation isn't that solution but out of the choices here it's my favorite one.

 
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My earlier findings have now been cooked up into a tasty survey. Since I couldn't encapsulate everything into 1 poll question, I made a more elaborate survey on Survey Monkey. Please use the link at the top of the page.
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Great poll, thanks for putting this together!

 
Thanks, badger2013. :)

Regarding ventilation, I don’t think it would have to be as much of a one-off or a simple underground on-off switch as meganoth is describing it. It’s natural to expand spaces over time: working into a new ore vein in your mine when one is depleted, or adding rooms to your base as you need room for more stuff or more people. Your first week hidey-hole is very different from your ultimate underground compound, and the game could account for this progression. The player could have to find that balance between the complexity they want and the oxygen they need multiple times on their journey to success, in the same way you now have to balance complexity and heat as you grow. I still consider entity-based threats at least equally important, though.

 
@meganoth
I was referring to your whole first and last paragraphs primarily, which were laden with sarcasm and essentially calling the ideas I support "lazy design" in a mocking way. I took it as very combative.
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I tried for "eloquent" but failed.

The "lazy design" is a misunderstanding, I called (probably in a too cryptic way) designing to ONLY prevent people from doing something in the underground a lazy design. Hopefully my example makes more sense now. I wasn't refering to the air vent solution at all (I even called it appealing in the same post)

And I know you don't think it should be "designed lazy" either, because you propose the air vent idea exactly because you think it is fun and regard the gas mask idea as inferior for that very reason.

But differences aside, you do bring up some good points. I'm also a huge supporter of both sentry zombies and breadcrumbs, it's just that I've been primarily supporting ventilation. If you combine these suggestions what you have is a system that serves as a technology gate for reaching 100% safety underground as well as active underground threats (zombies following you underground from your entrance).
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Yes. But do sentry zombies really fit in there. Isn't the central idea of that that they wait above and don't follow you, almost the contrary idea to breadcrumbs ?

As another user suggested, your vent could also generate heatmap which would bring zombies to the vented location (provided a player is present in the chunk) similar to the way screamers approach forges. Then through the breadcrumb system they may wander and try to find a way to engage you, or they may start digging - forcing you to build defenses for your intake/exhaust system. In normal situations, maybe there would just be a few zombies near the entrance to your mine and that's it. Maybe there would be "events" like the wandering hordes where zombies would follow the breadcrumb trail down into your mine once a day or so. Not too much to make it frustrating to mine, but enough to keep the player engaged underground. And of course on 7th nights you'd be automatically hunted which would make hiding underground astronomically difficult if not impossible without a significant investment in defenses. From a base-building perspective it could be fun and interesting to develop systems to establish yourself underground. Maybe it would be too complicated for the average player (or rather, too complicated to communicate to the player) so a simpler solution like diggers and breadcrumbs would have to be employed. That's ultimately up to TFP.
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I'm fully on the same page with you here, it doesn't matter that you primarily look forward to design of the air vent system and I to the zombies crawling through it ;-).

TFP's difficult job is to make certain that there are no easy exploits here (building the vent opening far away, ventilation working through hatches, grills or half-blocks). Not only because it is one of the goals but also because I don't want to play like an idiot just so zombies find a way underground. Especially in co-op it just doesn't work to say to your co-players "Okay, lets not put a hatch on this opening even though it prevents zombies from following. We don't do that because we roleplay idiots now so we get zombies underground.". Ultimately I suspect at least one digging zombie is still a must, even with air vents.

One of the big perks of a ventilation system IMO would be the necessity of vent intake and exhaust in PvP scenarios to discourage players from having a cheesy underground safehaven for their bases. Players could still attempt to conceal their exhaust but it would give detectives some form of telltale sign that a base is in the area. In the past, the sound radii were large enough that you could stalk players using sound. Now the map is much smaller but the sound radii are far too small so the chance that you encounter another player through anything other than sheer luck is minimal, which isn't as exciting from a PvP standpoint. Don't worry, I know the game isn't being made for PvP, but that's how I play the game so it naturally plays a part in my perspective here. I think there are possible solutions that could be fun from both a PvE standpoint and a PvP standpoint. And maybe ventilation isn't that solution but out of the choices here it's my favorite one.
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IMO ventilation is definitely and undeniably a feature (no, FEATURE) in PvP while a lot hangs on the specific implementation in PvE whether it is a success. I don't mind PvP players getting some sunshine too.

 
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Thanks, badger2013. :)
Regarding ventilation, I don’t think it would have to be as much of a one-off or a simple underground on-off switch as meganoth is describing it. It’s natural to expand spaces over time: working into a new ore vein in your mine when one is depleted, or adding rooms to your base as you need room for more stuff or more people. Your first week hidey-hole is very different from your ultimate underground compound, and the game could account for this progression. The player could have to find that balance between the complexity they want and the oxygen they need multiple times on their journey to success, in the same way you now have to balance complexity and heat as you grow. I still consider entity-based threats at least equally important, though.
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In the best case it leads to more complex designs and new ideas (but best case isn't easy to achieve). In the worst case players just add the same ventilation shaft again and again every x days. But this would still be a little better than it is now, because they would need to dig upwards once in a while.

With ventilation it would really make sense for the RWG to place the best ore veins deeper down. Because then the player has to decide between low yield but short ventilations shafts and high yield but very high shafts to dig. And suffocating because the pump ran out of gasoline (IF electrical pumps were part of the feature, see "best case" above :smile-new: ) would also have to be taken into consideration, getting to fresh air from bed rock takes a lot longer than from 10 blocks down

 
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I'm interested in seeing what TFP will decide to do here. Surface gameplay has changed and improved so much (minus sound radii nerf imho), especially with skyscrapers and electricity and new prefab designs and block types, but I'm excited for more underground opportunities as well as AI improvements to make the zombies a bit more threatening.

 
For any kind of ventilation system, we would also need something to cap the shafts, that or build a guardshack/tower thing, to keep zombies from falling in, breaking in. Mind you, weaker zombies would die from the fall if it's to bedrock.

Fans of some kind as well. Ductwork. (the models for those are already in, so just make'em craftable).

Me, I'd put the exhausts in the middle of a drop pit(s), and have the intakes come from the main entrance area, which is already defended.

Of course, now we get into, how many fans for how much space etc calculations. blech.

IF something like that comes in, then really would need to extend how far power lines can go.

(also a way to combine generators/banks etc)

Oh, and if we have to start doing vents etc for AIR, then at the same time, we should be able to control the TEMPERATURE!

So, we setup our systems, and then the temp should stabilize for the base.

 
Oh, and if we have to start doing vents etc for AIR, then at the same time, we should be able to control the TEMPERATURE!
So, we setup our systems, and then the temp should stabilize for the base.
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Actually, given the weather system in place, air-conditioning / climate control would be a nice feature for ANY base I reckon.

 
It is, severely, lacking the option: I just like to mine, mmkay!

In the first question.

Also.. There should be a similar options with I just like to build, mmkay!

In all seriousness though..

I will just.. leave this song

:) , mmkay!
And with that, Thank you for making a zombie survival game where only the sky's the limit for what I can do =).

 
Out of curiosity I tried that poll but that failed when I couldn't answer the first question.

I have done all of these and will again... as the mod strikes me.

Sometimes I dig hard, sometimes I build a fortress, sometimes I build nothing, not even reinforcing a prefab.

I hate games that can only be "won" in exactly one way.

 
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