PC Underground Debate #589

A confined space only has one way in and out according to MSHA, which is much stricter than OSHA. OSHA only comes around after an accident, MSHA comes around several times a year. So as long as our tunnel had more than one exit it would not be defined as a confined space and not need forced air to meet MSHA regulations. :) , This is in jest Tin so please don't ban me. Although even with more than one exit, any heavier gases would still hang around and be dangerous, but maybe we could craft air monitors which would alert us to dangerous gas levels or we introduce parakeets. I like parakeets.
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Oh that's it! you are soooo banned! Crap! I don't have a ban hammer so lets just pretend! xD

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Yeah, you're right on the names, ty for the correction.

Oh! *taking notes* have birds die when gas is released.. hehe

 
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The problem is more that a lot of people don't go underground not because they don't want to do so, they're not "ground dwellers". They don't go underground because there's no interest in doing so. No threats, nothing to be found besides resources that can also be found without digging. Yet, the world does go way deeper than the surface, so it makes sense that they'd want TFP to add *something* to it to make it both challenging and rewarding, to put it in line with the rest of the game.
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The only thing I wonder about that is do they really want to go underground. Is that the reason they don't build underground.

If the game came out tomorrow and there was a major threat to build underground would they do it or would they still build their base on the surface. It only an opinion but I think that even with a threat down there a lot, if not most, players who build those really nice looking bases on the surface will continue to build nice looking bases on the surface.

Threats, above or below ground need some way to have a chance to be counter acted on. Other wise zombies will be able to kill you 100% and then it is not a survival game.

Everything needs to be thunk and rethunk about :)

 
Many people have asked for and are receiving underground threats, so that underground is no longer a safe and boring zone. Some people build underground bunkers which are completely safe, thus exploiting current game mechanics.
However, the largest base-building exploit remains untouched and safe. I am referring to secondary bases for "heat" related activities, which exist solely to cheese screamer hordes. Secondary "heat" bases keep my main base completely safe from screamer hordes and removes their threat.

I feel like this should be addressed. I think any craftable item that raises the heat map should raise it to max instantly if there is no sleeping bag spawn protection. The screamer hordes called by those items should be gps'd onto the offending forge/campfire/etc.

Give an incentive to keep your crafting stations in your main base and defend them as needed or else be conservative with their use.

I have read over and over about eliminating "safe spaces". If we are gonna do that, let's do it thoroughly.
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Here's a bad idea. How about you can only build in your Land Claim Block area. And you can't make more LCB's. That way there is no second base to run to on horde nights. Unless you have an allie, then you could use his lcb to make your horde night base. Good reason to play coop. :D

Humour mode deactivated.

(In case anyone thought I was serious)

 
Since we are trying to nerf bunker dwellers can we also add sunburn and skin cancer to those who stay above ground? What about lightning killing people above ground, or fire ants, etc.. Of course I am being facetious, but I think if people want to live at bedrock, so be it. If you don't like it don't do it.
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This.
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Many people have asked for and are receiving underground threats, so that underground is no longer a safe and boring zone. Some people build underground bunkers which are completely safe, thus exploiting current game mechanics.
However, the largest base-building exploit remains untouched and safe. I am referring to secondary bases for "heat" related activities, which exist solely to cheese screamer hordes. Secondary "heat" bases keep my main base completely safe from screamer hordes and removes their threat.

I feel like this should be addressed. I think any craftable item that raises the heat map should raise it to max instantly if there is no sleeping bag spawn protection. The screamer hordes called by those items should be gps'd onto the offending forge/campfire/etc.

Give an incentive to keep your crafting stations in your main base and defend them as needed or else be conservative with their use.

I have read over and over about eliminating "safe spaces". If we are gonna do that, let's do it thoroughly.
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Not sure if you think you found a "gotcha" for the people asking for underground threats or not. That is the way your post reads since instead of just stating what you want changed you constantly compare it to a completely different issue. Either way, this is a good idea. Some penalty for "heat" bases would be a good idea.

I'm not sure how you decided this was the largest base building exploit though. Did you go through every game played and count or something?

 
not sure if unity can do this but what about dynamic poi generation
you are digging a tunnel, you hit an ore node and that triggers the generation

the game then chooses a volume of rock or dirt adjacent to the ore vein but not connected to an air block and replaces that volume with a randomly selected prefab underground poi like a crypt or bunker full of zombies

might not do much in terms of an underground hide out but it sure would make mining ore more intresting
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Great idea. If such a POI is spawned it could have a ceiling of special blocks that are like bedrock for SI calculation. Not that I would mind having buildings on the surface collapse, but it would soothe the mind of "preservationists" :cocksure:

If the SI-blocks work, the POIs could be even instantiated at world generation,

The only thing I wonder about that is do they really want to go underground. Is that the reason they don't build underground.If the game came out tomorrow and there was a major threat to build underground would they do it or would they still build their base on the surface. It only an opinion but I think that even with a threat down there a lot, if not most, players who build those really nice looking bases on the surface will continue to build nice looking bases on the surface.

Threats, above or below ground need some way to have a chance to be counter acted on. Other wise zombies will be able to kill you 100% and then it is not a survival game.

Everything needs to be thunk and rethunk about :)
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Another good point. The underground is used for building bases AND mining. I personally don't build much underground but do mining from time to time. Mining a vein has a great feeling of digging in a 3D labyrinth, but digging tunnels or finding the veins gets boring very fast. In my MP games I leave that task completely to the others, in my SP games I do it myself but with the enthusiasm of someone knowning he is just grinding.

I might try out an underground (sub)base at least once, but it depends on a lot of factors whether I would do it more than once. But I think I would view mining as an adventure again. And as soon as I mine more I would have a reason for building an underground (sub)base as well !!

 
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The simple fact is that you will likely never see zeds attacking underground bases. The dev has already said that the pathing is very short ranged. Unless they have them spawn inside solid rock or right in your base, I really don’t see it happening. And if they do everyone will complain about the fps when the server tanks trying to calculate the structure integrity of the massive holes the zeds are making trying to get to you
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They need worms that tunnel to you and lead zs to your bunker 😁

 
@meganoth

Having an underground POI with a special ceiling for SI could be a detriment or bonus to gameplay, depending on people's perspective. I would call it a bonus because I would take that POI over and NEVER worry about diggers. Others would complain that I am exploiting a game mechanic.

Two solutions for underground threats that could work would be radiation of the rocks or earthquakes. And these would likely be a programming nightmare. Can't wait to see what TFP come up with.

 
You don't need a block that acts like bedrock, just create an empty block with no colision but that can still support blocks above it, and fill underground POIs with it, that way you maintain normal SI for above ground. Maybe it's obvious and already thought of or really stupid in a way i didn't think about, but seems like a good solution to me...

 
Look like here are a bunch of chicks who are afraid of a few zombie and argue about underground. This is my conclusion from last few pages. GG FP keep the great work and don't listen to this crap of undeground ♥♥♥♥. Sorry for my language. And stop bash in the heads of FP for nothing.

 
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Not sure if you think you found a "gotcha" for the people asking for underground threats or not. That is the way your post reads since instead of just stating what you want changed you constantly compare it to a completely different issue. Either way, this is a good idea. Some penalty for "heat" bases would be a good idea.
I'm not sure how you decided this was the largest base building exploit though. Did you go through every game played and count or something?
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I would have said just about any type of pole fort was the biggest exploit. You're hard pressed to even pretent you're challanged.

Pile everything you got in one chessy fort and put a garden at the top for added insult.

Just have to sweat out that one 3000 jar of murky water run and your done till day 1000.

Its rough above ground... yup.

 
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I would have said just about any type of pole fort was the biggest exploit. You're hard pressed to even pretent you're challanged.
Pile everything you got in one chessy fort and put a garden at the top for added insult.

Just have to sweat out that one 3000 jar of murky water run and your done till day 1000.

Its rough above ground... yup.
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Nevermind. Reread and I understand your post now. Lol

 
Yeah, I had an old timer moment or something. Lol
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It might have been my fault. I'm using my wife's phone with the micro keys. I'm sure i didnt say things like i should have but my thoughts should have melted the satanic device 30 minutes ago. 😊

 
I would have said just about any type of pole fort was the biggest exploit. You're hard pressed to even pretent you're challanged.
Pile everything you got in one chessy fort and put a garden at the top for added insult.

Just have to sweat out that one 3000 jar of murky water run and your done till day 1000.

Its rough above ground... yup.
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It seems like underground bunkers, heat bases, and pole bases (assuming the physics work) are all examples of smart game play, not exploits. Ideally, there should be other factors that act as challenges and incentives to keep things interesting. For instance, a heat base might keep zombies away from your main base, if you still have to fight your way through accumulated zombies to use it, that would be a good trade off. If zombies can dig, how will that change the dynamic of underground bases? Pole bases...I think this is where things like bandits will be a good thing. It's not an uncommon theme in apocalyptic fiction for the biggest threat to be from other humans.

 
It seems like underground bunkers, heat bases, and pole bases (assuming the physics work) are all examples of smart game play, not exploits.
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How smart is "dig a hole"? But, I don't really call them an exploit. I see them as deficiencies in the current game that I hope TFP finds ways to correct.

 
It seems like underground bunkers, heat bases, and pole bases (assuming the physics work) are all examples of smart game play, not exploits. Ideally, there should be other factors that act as challenges and incentives to keep things interesting. For instance, a heat base might keep zombies away from your main base, if you still have to fight your way through accumulated zombies to use it, that would be a good trade off. If zombies can dig, how will that change the dynamic of underground bases? Pole bases...I think this is where things like bandits will be a good thing. It's not an uncommon theme in apocalyptic fiction for the biggest threat to be from other humans.
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Bandits will destroy any type of base. All will be Doooooomed!. :laser: :peep:

 
one little question to all that are against underground threats

why should we have bedrock at -57 in a SP\Coop game? with a bedrock cut in half or even 3\4 we could have a huge improve in performance

with non digging z's bedrock could be even at -10

that stop also the problem of people drawning to recover supply drops in lake

two birds with one stone :)

 
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