PC Underground Debate #589

100 percent this. Do you ever notice how underground dwellers seem to be SO resistant to ANY forms of threats to their cozy lifestyle, yet above ground is consistently made harder and more complex?
We now have to contend with better AI pathing, zombies who can knock down pillars and possibly hit up to us on ledges, bears who can knock down tree houses etc. Oh but make ONE suggestion to add some gas underground and all of a sudden we get wishes for cancer for breathing fresh air. Be Tee Dubs there IS sunblocker in the game already. Go ahead and look at creative. So maybe one day there WILL be cancer from the sun. And Ill gladly accept that challenge. Because complacency in any game = fail.

You know how to get an underground settler out of his hole? Drop an ant down there, he will panic REAL quick.
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I also would love more underground threats!!

 
ANYTHING to make underground more interesting...and challenging would love to see...

I never build underground because I find it completely and totally...boring...

 
100 percent this. Do you ever notice how underground dwellers seem to be SO resistant to ANY forms of threats to their cozy lifestyle, yet above ground is consistently made harder and more complex?
We now have to contend with better AI pathing, zombies who can knock down pillars and possibly hit up to us on ledges, bears who can knock down tree houses etc. Oh but make ONE suggestion to add some gas underground and all of a sudden we get wishes for cancer for breathing fresh air. Be Tee Dubs there IS sunblocker in the game already. Go ahead and look at creative. So maybe one day there WILL be cancer from the sun. And Ill gladly accept that challenge. Because complacency in any game = fail.

You know how to get an underground settler out of his hole? Drop an ant down there, he will panic REAL quick.
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It also seems that ground dwellers are adamant about making life underground more hazardous for us moles lol. They hate us cause they ain't us lol, I am kidding Jax. Everybody has their opinions and they are all correct for their own preferred style of play. People also seem pretty set in their ways about the issue. Maybe they could make it on the options page just like you can control number of zombie spawns or always running, you could set difficulty underground or maybe not. Whatever TFP decides I'll adapt.

 
It also seems that ground dwellers are adamant about making life underground more hazardous for us moles lol. They hate us cause they ain't us lol, I am kidding Jax. Everybody has their opinions and they are all correct for their own preferred style of play. People also seem pretty set in their ways about the issue. Maybe they could make it on the options page just like you can control number of zombie spawns or always running, you could set difficulty underground or maybe not. Whatever TFP decides I'll adapt.
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The problem is more that a lot of people don't go underground not because they don't want to do so, they're not "ground dwellers". They don't go underground because there's no interest in doing so. No threats, nothing to be found besides resources that can also be found without digging. Yet, the world does go way deeper than the surface, so it makes sense that they'd want TFP to add *something* to it to make it both challenging and rewarding, to put it in line with the rest of the game.

 
I was told the new update would be out by now? What's up with that?

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I also would love more underground threats!!
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The game is broken until they fix this. The game should be a challenge, not something where you have to deliberately create the challenge. A good game forces the challenge upon you. Right now, uou can literally live in safety without ever dealing with zombies. The game needs to provide an actual reason to leave your base outside of sheer boredom. Agriculture, mining, construction, and industry all need a nerf. Those things would be nigh impossible in a real life survival situation, but they are ludicrously easy within this game. Cobblestone wall should be endgame technology, and steel walls are simply OP absurdity. The game should encourage exploration and scavenging as THE means of survival, rather than something you do because you are handicapping yourself.

Honestly, in a real zombie apocalypse, you'd be an IDIOT to go dig a hole and live in it. You'd probably die even without any zombies. The game designers need to make that equally true within this game.

The game designers also need to get away from trying to make super mutant zombies, and just focus on the fact that normal zombies should be terrifying. Just nerf the construction and let the normal zombies become a perpetual threat. Don't make us mod the game to enjoy it.

 
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Fortunately MadMole has already stated that the underground biome is going to be revamped and made just as dangerous as above ground biomes.
-A
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It can't happen soon enough, bunker dwellers need to be in just as much danger as above ground players.

 
Here is a simple idea for stopping people from building underground bases at bedrock because people are making it entirely too complicated.

Have a floor limit that way you flat out can't place building blocks lower than a specified block level that way any structure you build isn't below the range that a zombie can sense you from, this completely stops the complaining about bunkers being cheaty.

Now wasn't that easy?

 
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Here is a simple idea for stopping people from building underground bases at bedrock because people are making it entirely too complicated.
Have a floor limit that way you flat out can't place building blocks lower than a specified block level that way any structure you build isn't below the range that a zombie can sense you from, this completely stops the complaining about bunkers being cheaty.

Now wasn't that easy?
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That's not the point at all. People want some sense of accomplishment. I want to build, defend and maintain my bunker if I decide to build it underground. What you proposed is nothing more than what we have now.

 
That's not the point at all. People want some sense of accomplishment. I want to build, defend and maintain my bunker if I decide to build it underground. What you proposed is nothing more than what we have now.
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You couldn't be more wrong about it being nothing more than we have now, right now people can build a base down at bedrock and completely avoid zombies all together which ruins the gaming experience period there are no if's and's or buts about it.

If there is a block level floor set for building bunkers you can still do everything you want to do and accomplish everything you want to but you just wouldn't be able to avoid zombies because they could find you.

You wrote this response without thinking, rebelling against the idea that underground bunkers should be limited in some way, you can say I'm a terrible person for suggesting such a thing all you want but it doesn't change the facts.

 
I'm all for challenges underground, but... isn't the point of bunkers and subterranean bases to provide increased protection for the occupants? Making them just as vulnerable as surface dwellings seems a little off. Perhaps we just need a reason to draw the troglodytes to the surface, maybe a greater dependence on scavenging to keep stuff working in the bunker. Just a random thought.

 
You couldn't be more wrong about it being nothing more than we have now, right now people can build a base down at bedrock and completely avoid zombies all together which ruins the gaming experience period there are no if's and's or buts about it.
If there is a block level floor set for building bunkers you can still do everything you want to do and accomplish everything you want to but you just wouldn't be able to avoid zombies because they could find you.

You wrote this response without thinking, rebelling against the idea that underground bunkers should be limited in some way, you can say I'm a terrible person for suggesting such a thing all you want but it doesn't change the facts.
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1. you are a terrible person to suggest such a thing, why shouldn't I be allowed to build my base underground while still fighting the Z's??

2. your suggestion doesn't work *at all* (talking A16 here, no idea what AI-changes will come in A17) in terms of stopping players, that wanna hide from Z's underground to do so if they really want to. no idea where exactly you want to draw your magical "no building beyond this point"-line, but to avoid zombies it is enough to shovel 3 blocks (!) down, 2 to stand and one to block the entrance. I can also build a whole base no more than 5 blocks underground if I wanted to or had to.

3. another problem: when you go down for mining (that would be still allowed, right?) you would have no means of putting some supports/ladders etc. breaking mining completely and thus making the underground absolutely dead. not a smart move imho

conclusion: no...it really wasn't that easy ;) .....but nice try though

 
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Everyone here championing for NO threat at all in a survival game definitely do not have the best interests of the integrity of this game in their hearts.

Having spoken to the dev of Mist I want to echo some of his sentiments. No GOOD game developer, who is looking to make a challenging survival game, would allow any loophole that allows you to bypass an entire game mechanic. I can assure you the reason why there is no underground threat presently is because they just have not gotten to it yet. Much like this patch is all about the AI, pathing and getting hordes to destroy your defenses above ground, the time will come for the underground/water exploits to be tackled.

Let's say you were spending your years and money to come up with the best survival game out there, and 80 percent of your work in making it a challenge can be circumvented by just digging down. Do you honestly think that is ok, from a design standpoint, to allow into your final product? How would you feel if you presented your passion project and told everyone how hard you worked to make it a challenge, and some guy in the back laughed and said "no it's not i just dig down". Do you know how ludicrous that sounds? And in one sentence you just tossed aside any semblance of difficulty, any work you put into coming up with challenging AI. Any balancing you have meticulously crafted. All because "dig down".

Above ground has numerous challenges ahead. Logically so should below ground. A lot of people are confusing unfinished with intended.

 
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If they do what you want then they are making someone else mod the game so THEY can enjoy it. Who should the mods cater to?
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You couldn't be more wrong about it being nothing more than we have now, right now people can build a base down at bedrock and completely avoid zombies all together which ruins the gaming experience period there are no if's and's or buts about it.
If there is a block level floor set for building bunkers you can still do everything you want to do and accomplish everything you want to but you just wouldn't be able to avoid zombies because they could find you.

You wrote this response without thinking, rebelling against the idea that underground bunkers should be limited in some way, you can say I'm a terrible person for suggesting such a thing all you want but it doesn't change the facts.
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Ruins the game for who? Clearly not for those who do it.

 
Ruins the game for who? Clearly not for those who do it.
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Unless a developer comes in here and says "We support the idea that you can 100 percent avoid the challenges we have put in front of you by just going underground in our base vanilla game" then it is ruining the integrity of the game they are trying to make.

And if that IS said i for one will be extremely disappointed.

 
Having a large open area to the sky won't help with dispersing toxic gas (which is heavier than air) since you would be in what is still considered a confined space by OSHA definitions and need a forced gas removal system. If you do strip mine that big of an area the O2 depletion would be a no never mind type of deal anyways, since you would easily be able to move in and out of the affected area.
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A confined space only has one way in and out according to MSHA, which is much stricter than OSHA. OSHA only comes around after an accident, MSHA comes around several times a year. So as long as our tunnel had more than one exit it would not be defined as a confined space and not need forced air to meet MSHA regulations. :) , This is in jest Tin so please don't ban me. Although even with more than one exit, any heavier gases would still hang around and be dangerous, but maybe we could craft air monitors which would alert us to dangerous gas levels or we introduce parakeets. I like parakeets.

 
@ The GronkTo edit xml files is not how an usual player roll. We want to check the settings and turn unliked things simply off. That's all.
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The important thing though is that it is very hard for mods and impossible for options to add zombies as underground dangers. Unless TFP implements them first.

And then, if they are in the game, making an option or mod to turn them off should be quite simple.

 
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