PC Trader Numbers

[Whiteshark68]

Actually since i think i answered my own question with a lot of figuring stuff out can one of the mods actually delete this thread since this must be a 1.0 change just didn't realise at the time

Not sure if someone else has posted about this i did search but nothing came up

i have created 6 new maps in 1.0 b333 and b336 and 1.1 exp and there seems to be a lot fewer traders spawning compared to 1.0 exp

 

[YourMirror]

What is the question?

 

[Whiteshark68]

I guess what i am asking is was it intentional to reduce the amount of traders that are actually spawning on maps now

exp 1.0 i created a 8k map and got 18 traders

exp 1.1 i created a 10k map and got 19 traders

if you do the math 8k map works out to roughly 67 square km and a 10k map is roughly 104 square km so for an extra 37 square km's i got 1 extra trader just seems weird to me

 

[Suxar]

And the number of cities?
Traders are most likely tied not to the size of the map, but to the density of buildings. But this is an assumption.

 

[Whiteshark68]

And the number of cities?
Traders are most likely tied not to the size of the map, but to the density of buildings. But this is an assumption.

8k map 25 towns/cities

10k map at least 21 towns/cities with maybe between 1/2 and 2/3rds of the map explored

another 8k map with 21 towns/cities but i cannot confirm the amount of traders on that map as i have not played it as yet i just took a ss when i created it and it was from the preview which i forgot to change from the standard def so cannot make out the traders with any certainty but seems to be the exact same formula of around the 3 to 4 of each.

I actually think it is now hard coded to limit the amount of traders to 4 of each type max

My reasoning for this is when i created my 8k map i left the biome sizes unchanged and got 4 rekt, 4 bob, 4 jen, 4 hugh and 2 joel

but when i created my 10k map i played around with the biome sizes with forest reduced to 6% and the rest evenly split with the other 94% i got 3 rekt, 4 bob, 4 jen, 4 hugh and 4 joel.

while someone in the know would have to confirm this.

 

[zztong]

The rwgmixer.xml file has some settings that want something like 2-5 traders of each type. A modlet could change that. For instance, I prefer to only have 1 of each trader on a map, so I set both the min and the max to 1.

In A21 IIRC, those settings weren't an option. Instead, you got 1 (maybe 2) traders per settlement except for the Western Town which didn't get one.

 

[8_Hussars]

if you do the math 8k map works out to roughly 67 square km and a 10k map is roughly 104 square km so for an extra 37 square km's i got 1 extra trader just seems weird to me

I think you just validated a common misconception.

Map content does not scale up in size lineally with map size (Vanilla rwg).  A 10k map in general has more pois and a lot more open space than an 8k map but not the same density.  You get better density on 6k or 4k maps.

 

[Whiteshark68]

The rwgmixer.xml file has some settings that want something like 2-5 traders of each type. A modlet could change that. For instance, I prefer to only have 1 of each trader on a map, so I set both the min and the max to 1.

In A21 IIRC, those settings weren't an option. Instead, you got 1 (maybe 2) traders per settlement except for the Western Town which didn't get one.

After a lot of searching around for the solution to my problem i found that in release 1.0 that the traders are hard coded in the rwgmixer file with the min set to 2 and the max set to 4 in each biome so if you have a biome that has 7 towns/cities like my latest wasteland biome you end up with 3 with no trader at all and the the desert and burnt forest have 7 and 8 towns respectively but again only 4 traders  so again 3 and 4 towns with no traders

in previous alphas the rwgmixer file just had something along the line of town = trader = true

I think you just validated a common misconception.

Map content does not scale up in size lineally with map size (Vanilla rwg).  A 10k map in general has more pois and a lot more open space than an 8k map but not the same density.  You get better density on 6k or 4k maps.

my point is as above why have a biome with 7/8 cities and only 4 traders?

but like i said i now know why doesn't make sense but it is what it is.

 

[BFT2020]

After a lot of searching around for the solution to my problem i found that in release 1.0 that the traders are hard coded in the rwgmixer file with the min set to 2 and the max set to 4 in each biome so if you have a biome that has 7 towns/cities like my latest wasteland biome you end up with 3 with no trader at all and the the desert and b

Not sure where you searched, but I got different results when I did a bit of xml modding

I changed min to 5 and max to 10, and then I generated a map where a majority of the world was pine forest (I think it was around 71%).  I ended up with 7 pine forest towns.

If it truly is hardcoded like you stated, then I should only see 4 trader Jens in my map.  I got 10 Trader Jens (I also swapped Trader Jen biome with Trader Rekt biome).

 

[BFT2020]

Doing another test run, I made the same changes to Trader Bob and generated a world that is minimum Burnt forest, snow, and wasteland, and equal amount of Pine Forest / Desert.  I got 7 Pine Forest towns and 12 Desert towns.  Trader Jen was at 10 and Trader Bob was at 10.

 

[Riamus]

Not sure where you searched, but I got different results when I did a bit of xml modding

I changed min to 5 and max to 10, and then I generated a map where a majority of the world was pine forest (I think it was around 71%).  I ended up with 7 pine forest towns.

If it truly is hardcoded like you stated, then I should only see 4 trader Jens in my map.  I got 10 Trader Jens (I also swapped Trader Jen biome with Trader Rekt biome).

View attachment 32199

I believe they just have it is set up in rwgmixer as a limit rather than being openended.  So the defaults are 2-4 there (not technically hard coded, but likely what was meant).

Still, rwgmixer is there to be edited when making maps, so it is easy to increase these values as you have shown.

As far as why there is a limit, it probably is because towns now have multiple gateways and they don't want 30 traders in a biome.  Heh.  Not to mention, they now force specific traders into specific biomes, so every trader on a bike will be the same and seeing a dozen of the same trader everywhere would get old fast (another reason this restriction in RWG is a bad idea).