PC Trader and economy balance thread

1)Just put a global max amount of duke coins. For example 100.000 to prevent inflation.

2) make primary goods like gas,bullets and food items that can be used like currency.

Diferent traders only want diferent goods as money apart from dukes.you need to travel to sell stuff

3) NPCs buying And selling stuff to simulate a tiny region market. You can play Monopoly selling the BEST forged steel.

or take some Risk traveling great distances to sell this stuff in a land full of bandits.more profit more Risk.

Sorry for the inglish xD

 
Interesting thread, I'd like specialized traders, and a bit variance to pricing (the biome related realism sounds neat). Plenty of other interesting ideas as well.

But overall, I find this thread difficult to answer with the rest of the game balance being so strongly up in the air.

Should there be gating items between playstyles or not? If there should, what are they? As it is, everything is being given with a mild inconvenience.

1.) Support all play styles, so non crafters can get what they need.

Personally, in a current SP game I'm trying to play a non-crafter looter with an archery/pistols build. Buying Concrete Mix and Cobblestone for an AI-cheese shooting range (horde base) has worked for the first three weeks. Once the AI is fixed.. no idea. Spent 3/5 points in Barter, so my sell/buy ratio is now about 3.5:1. Built a forge for iron arrowheads. Spent the points to build a minibike. So, three weeks in, I'm actually just a few skillpoints away from becoming a crafter, while stubbornly refusing to buy the points. Now that I think of it, a lot of my money has been made by selling Iron Reinforced Clubs to each trader, they sell for a good bit for 100 Iron, which isn't really a feature of a looter..

Nothing that I'm "sorely missing", but I'm having hard time not spending the couple of points for a cement mixer.

2.) Make it possible to make a living role playing.

To think about this, the first thing I'd need to ask, "What are the intented harvesting mechanics?". For the moment, we get the "destruction bonus" from resource nodes that doubles the yield of the node. I seem to rememeber that it is a bug. Are we getting double the resources we should?

Lumberjack selling 3 stacks of wood per trader reset, that is 6000 wood per day, no Better Barter? He'll get about 75 dukes per 1000 with your .2 => .15 barter change, so, thats 450 a stack. With luck, 450 a day. That's six cans from a vending machine, or three "stew types". Assuming the trader resets all the wood every reset (he won't, but you can rotate living around several traders to compensate), a lumberjack might feed himself. Is that "making a living"?

3.) Perk balance. Are the trading perks too good? I typically get by without them so maybe they are OP?

Given that you in this thread nerfed unskilled bartering by 25%, I guess it was OP in general :) I ran some numbers to think about the effect of the change:

Oil, "EconomicValue=100"

In 17.1 B9, through the ranks of barter 0..5

Oil sells for: 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70

Oil buys for: 200, 190, 180. 170, 160, 150

Giving trading ratios ("how many items I need to sell to buy one"):

10, 6.3, 4.5, 3.4, 2.7, 2.1

Your new ratios will be (buy_markup=2, sell_markdown=0.15, Bartering value="0.05,0.1,0.15,0.2,0.25")

Code: 
Sell: 15,    20,    25,    30,    35,    40
Buy:  200,   195,   190.   185,   180,   175
Ratio:13.33, 9.75,  7.6,   6.2,   5.1,   4.375
I guess that's not terrible. Poor lumberjack though :)

Some things to check, if you didn't already,

- Cigar, Barter value is now worthy of two skill levels in barter (maybe acceptable?)

- Grandpa's Awesome Sauce, Barter value

- Old Treasure Map, loot ratios between coins and other valuables (or just leave the coin box twice as valuable as the rest..? )

- Maybe Zombie Loot bag coin value balancing as well

Another thing that will still make the crafter the master of coin, Quality level affecting prices as much as it does. As in quality_mod="0.4,8"

Barter requiring int, a crafter at int 8 + nerdy glasses will make flawless items, at that 8 value.

Leather armor (with your newly modified ratios): a duct tape (43 buy at 5/5) 7 leather (269 buy), 312 total. Craft into Q6 leather armor, sells for 960, profit 650 per duct tape, (x15 items of armor) no use for the leather anyway

Flawless Iron Clubs sell pretty well still. 1120 for 100 iron (100 iron buyable at 170 coins, net gain for showing up at the trader, 950x3 = 2850)

 
TL;DR

Not sure what specializing you guys are talking about for traders... However, I want to mostly barter for my ammo, building materials, etc.

I also play RandomGen, so I don't really want to spend weeks looking for a trader that is not a POS... cause random gen.

If I am maxing barter, those traders BETTER have the stuff I want.

 
Wait, you want it ALL and want it cheap? A crafter pays 20-30 perk points for the same privilege
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I have no idea what you are talking about. I just want the stuff to be there so I can buy it, maxing barter requires 10 intel after all.

If they do not have stuff I want then there is no point in investing in barter.

How I make my money is my business lol.

 
The only problem with specialized traders for me is I rarely find more than 1 or 2 traders on the map. Am I the only one?
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I was lucky. But I hope TFP will create a "meet the next trader" quest as it has been previously suggested by other players.

 
Some way to force the trader to restock sooner will be nice. May be if you pay him like 20k he will restock in 24 hrs? Or fastward the restock timer by x amount according to the coins invested. Or may be if you complete a resupply quest the trader will restock in half a day?

Also will be nice if it sell schematics as well.

 
The traders lack what a player needs, and try’s to sell us fluff we don’t want or need.

Fluff is.

1.Guns

2.Tools

3.Common mods

Players needs, mostly basic crafting ingredients in a meaning full amount. What would be nice is say.

1.Stack of 500 coal

2.Stack of 500 Nitrate

3.Stack of 20 bones

4.Stack of 200 brass

5.Stack of 500 lead

We don’t need a lot of stuff that we can craft, we need things to craft with. Not everyone wants to check every trash bag, or collect every road kill. A player may want to take a break from digging in the mines once in a while.

Don’t get me wrong some Fluff can be useful or fun like the furnishings for ones base, its about the only thing worth making trader runs for. Or at least for me it is.

Finished ammo is fine, but I would rather craft it then buy it.

 
Trade is going to be a hard thing to balance for everyone's tastes for sure. Sometimes I play where I don't craft anything and just use traders so I like when they have tools & ammo.

 
Trade is going to be a hard thing to balance for everyone's tastes for sure. Sometimes I play where I don't craft anything and just use traders so I like when they have tools & ammo.
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I just want an option to turn them off problem solved on balance issues. :p

 
Play Rimwold to see a decent idea for specialized traders. Would be nice if 7D2D specialized traders had 2 methods like Rimworld also:

Stationary traders(as current 7D2D)

Roaming traders(probably be a lot of coding and thought to implement this in 7D2D)

This trader/economy balance thing is a great idea. This could be the solution to a lot of complaints about not being able to specialize in the current skill/level system.

 
First of all, I apologize for my English. I hope that the developers will read this message and at least respond with a "your observations are S♥♥♥♥". It doesn't matter. But I hope they read me.

I believe, from my humble opinion that they should change the skills tree. Or rather, redistribute it better. (Although I may not have played the game well).

I wonder... Is it possible to get to that "endgame" stage everyone talks about... without using a gun, rifle, shotgun, or scoring points in the Strength skill?

Because in order to be an "Archer" character I have to raise Strength to 10/10 (with the amount of points that entails) if I want to mine, get the maximum of resources, be a sexual tyrannosaurus and a mule load. Why am I obliged to spend points on Strength?

I understand that they have elaborated the skills tree based on the association of concepts perhaps? but not in functionality?

It is true that in real life may be that to be a good miner, I need to be strong ... but then that leaves me out of the mining options in the video game?

I think Pack Mule, Sexual Tyrannosaurus, Lucky Looter, Salvage Operations, Miner 69, Mother Lode should be in a separate section.

I have climbed 10 Agility together with Hidden Strike 5/5, Ninja Movement 5/5, From the Shadows 5/5. Perception 10/10 with Archery 5/5 and Strength 10/10 with Boom Headshot 5/5 and it's impossible for me to leave semi KO to an irradiated.

I LOVE the missions (thank you), but if I have to run out of the building at 20 meters and lose it because I get tons of Irradiated, ferals etc ... It is impossible for me.

Nor do I understand how stealth works... I have put everything related to it to the maximum so that they don't detect me... but what's funny if when I pass near a wall they wake up? Or that at some point in the game I am forced to jump.

I don't know, maybe I'm not doing something right. But well on the one hand is the issue of stealth and on the other to redistribute skills, I hope I have expressed myself with correction.

By the way, I love this game, it's the first time in 40 years that a game gets to add 500 hours. It's never happened to me before.

 
I would love an option to utilize a different kind of vending machine that links directly to the trader.

So if you enter say, dishing tower, where there's a bunch of kiosk-like structures, you could access the vending machine and it would link to the nearest trader and allow you to buy and sell.

Of course you'd have to have been to that trader first, and pay into utilizing his vending machines that activates it for 30 days.

There would have to be a slight increase in his prices and vice versa for what you're selling.

Thoughts?

 
I just want an option to turn them off problem solved on balance issues. :p
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Why do you need to turn them off? Why can't you just not go inside them? Wouldn't that be problem solved as well?

 
I just want an option to turn them off problem solved on balance issues. :p
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Get my modlets (at least the trader reset Balancer) and change

Code: 
	<set xpath="/traders/trader_info[@id='1' and @reset_interval='3']/@reset_interval">1</set>
to 30 or so

No more balance issues (as you perceive them)

 
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I would say the more common the item: Wood, rocks, ect: The more fixed the price would be and a barter perk word have little change to the price. Maybe the number of common items the trader is willing to buy could be modified by a barter perk. Common items should always be available for the player to buy.

However the more rare the item, the more influence barter skills would have on its price.

Also, if a player only sells common items he should only make enough money to replace food and water expended plus the cost to repair tools plus a small amount for extras. It should never be a get rich thing.

 
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Also, if a player only sells common items he should only make enough money to replace food and water expended plus the cost to repair tools plus a small amount for extras. It should never be a get rich thing.
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So you want the player to chop trees for 10 Hours and then as reward he get a meal, a bit fuel and a Q1 Pickaxe ?

Sorry cant share this thought.

If a player choose to focus on becoming rich why shouldnt he. Others build fortresses in the meantime, or loot Pois.

With the changes MM stated i guess the balance is maybe fine

 
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