PC Token nerf mad all brass worth nothing?

pApA^LeGBa

pApA^LeGBa

Well-known member
So patch notes say this "It takes more casino tokens to smelt/craft bullet casings" But what acutally happened was that casings now cost more in the forge?

So because tokens were OP, every brass got nerfed. Well played....

I see how tokens needed a nerf but all the brass? Dunno about others, but with 5 people and 16 bloodmoon zombies it was already very hard to get enough brass before we had enough tokens to smelt. Seems downright impossible now, especially until you find the books for sinks and doors. Wich only make it so much better. The amount of brass from sinks is not very high.

It´s fine if you want to make ammo more of a value, but directing the game into the direction to you have no choice but using guns at the same time is odd.

 
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wait are you serious... Why in the world would they just not increase the ammount of tokens needed to smelt 1 brass... huh *scratches head while being flabbergasted*

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No clue. People who never used tokens gonna be really pissed that they now have to deal with 5 brass per casing. Used to be 2. The tokens smelt 1:1 like they did before.

Like said i can see the need of nerfing the token to casing ratio, but this is too much.

Still hoping that it wasn´t intended like that and it was just a mistake.

Can´t tell how this will effect me as we are on day 168 and far from beeing done with project "Hollow mountain". So we have tons of tokens and enough casings that can be crafted even with a cost of 5. But i know that brass was rare enough to make me struggle to get enough when it costed 2 per casing and i didn´t have enough for hordenights at the first few bloodmoons. The book with the sinks doesn´t really help tbh, the amount of brass you get from them is pretty low.

 
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The ratio of coins to brass was 1 to 1. Apparently they could not lower the ratio further, e.g. to 1 to 0.5. instead they increased the cost of bullet cases.

I took a look at the XML files and noticed that other brass items now give more brass. A doorknob now gives 50 instead of 20, a candle stick gives 150 instead of 60 and a radiator gives 250 instead of 100. The burntime also increased.

 
The ratio of coins to brass was 1 to 1. Apparently they could not lower the ratio further, e.g. to 1 to 0.5. instead they increased the cost of bullet cases.
I took a look at the XML files and noticed that other brass items now give more brass. A doorknob now gives 50 instead of 20, a candle stick gives 150 instead of 60 and a radiator gives 250 instead of 100. The burntime also increased.
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Nice work looking in to this matter! Glad to hear TFP did not just change it without balance. :)

 
The ratio of coins to brass was 1 to 1. Apparently they could not lower the ratio further, e.g. to 1 to 0.5. instead they increased the cost of bullet cases.
I took a look at the XML files and noticed that other brass items now give more brass. A doorknob now gives 50 instead of 20, a candle stick gives 150 instead of 60 and a radiator gives 250 instead of 100. The burntime also increased.
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It would be good to prevent hair fires is they were just a wee bit more specific in the patch notes. E.g. "increased brass cost of bullet casings and also increased smelting reward for non-casino-token items"

We had modded radiators into refrigerators and ice machines so we could source a bit more brass. I have the doorknob and sink book so maybe I can undo that modlet.

 
So in the end, it really is a non-issue, and PaPa just cried wolf because they didn't examine the whole picture.

 
So in the end, it really is a non-issue, and PaPa just cried wolf because they didn't examine the whole picture.
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I would say TFP failed to fully explain the changes in this update in regards to brass.

Players should not have to go in to XML files and double check ever line of code to see if anything changed with every single update. This should have been explained in the patch notes a lot better.

 
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Honestly the cost increase doesn't bother me (aside from forementioned limited sources of brass outside dukes). The time increase on crafting is what bothers me.

 
So in the end, it really is a non-issue, and PaPa just cried wolf because they didn't examine the whole picture.
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Dude what? I am sorry that TFP failed to clearly state the changes. Also sorry that i don´t know how the smelt ratios were before the change. Seriously WTF? Don´t blame me when TFP can´t communicate this properly.

I wanna play and not having to fiddle around in the XML to find out if a change was a serioius nerf or not. And even if i would take a look i would have no clue becaue i don´t know the old ratios...

Next time, think and then post pls.

 
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Dude what? I am sorry that TFP failed to clearly state the changes. Also sorry that i don´t know how the smelt ratios were before the change. Seriously WTF? Don´t blame me when TFP can´t communicate this properly.
I wanna play and not having to fiddle around in the XML to find out if a change was a serioius nerf or not. And even if i would take a look i would have no clue becaue i don´t know the old ratios...

Next time, think and then post pls.
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Exactly and since a member of TFP team publically placed blame on you when it is very clear you are not at fault and TFP are.... In my opinion a public apology should be given because that is just not cool at all.

 
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Public apology? Haha. People are really sensitive these days. Sylen didn't attack anyone or anything. He literally said that someone complained about something they weren't fully understanding of, which is true.

I doubt anyone at TFP is gonna worry about publicly documenting every minute change such as this. If you'd just play the game, you'd see the balance is still there.

 
Public apology? Haha. People are really sensitive these days. Sylen didn't attack anyone or anything. He literally said that someone complained about something they weren't fully understanding of, which is true.
I doubt anyone at TFP is gonna worry about publicly documenting every minute change such as this. If you'd just play the game, you'd see the balance is still there.
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People aren't sensitive, they just call bull♥♥♥♥ when they see it.

TFP are ♥♥♥♥ at communication and the attitudes of many of them that post publicly show them to be kinda a-holes.

Players shouldn't have to dig through a game's files to find out what changes were made, just like a car owner shouldn't have to examine every part of their car to know what the mechanic did....both should have the changes explained in an understandable way, it's just good customer service.

SylenThunder was just being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and should apologize for speaking before thinking, or just keep their mouth shut in the first place.

P.S. here is an example of their wonderful communication skills: "Better stat display on bandages were"

Were......what?

And

"It takes more casino tokens to smelt/craft bullet casings"

Where does it say "it takes more brass to make bullet casings", cause that's what the change really was.

 
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People aren't sensitive, they just call bull♥♥♥♥ when they see it.
TFP are ♥♥♥♥ at communication and the attitudes of many of them that post publicly show them to be kinda a-holes.

Players shouldn't have to dig through a game's files to find out what changes were made, just like a car owner shouldn't have to examine every part of their car to know what the mechanic did....both should have the changes explained in an understandable way, it's just good customer service.

SylenThunder was just being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and should apologize for speaking before thinking, or just keep their mouth shut in the first place.

P.S. here is an example of their wonderful communication skills: "Better stat display on bandages were"

Were......what?

And

"It takes more casino tokens to smelt/craft bullet casings"

Where does it say "it takes more brass to make bullet casings", cause that's what the change really was.
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I agree with everything you said except the statements aimed at SylenThunder. I will defend SylenThunder because he is actually a fair & good moderator and deserves respect. He is only human and slipped up thats all, so please don't attack him or his work ethics unless you have witnessed him mistreating others or has mistreated you on a regular basis and you can show proof of it.

He really is a good person and one of the good moderators that conducts himself professionally 99% of the time. The other 1% is just proof he is human like us all. I'll bet money he contacted PaPa via PM and apologized.

P.S. SylendThunder was NOT being an a-hole, rude...a little. Wrong for blaming a player? yes but he was not acting like an a-hole.

 
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And

"It takes more casino tokens to smelt/craft bullet casings"

Where does it say "it takes more brass to make bullet casings", cause that's what the change really was.
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If you can't make that connection yourself...

 
If you can't make that connection yourself...
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The logical interpretation of

"It takes more casino tokens to smelt/craft bullet casings"

would be that it would take more casino tokens to make one unit of brass, not that it would take more brass to make one bullet casing.

I mean, it takes less effort and is more clear to just say "bullet casings cost 5 brass now, not 2".

Should hire an English major to write the patch notes, or spend more time putting the notes together other than just copy paste from the coders' notes.

"Bullet casings take 5 brass each to craft now instead of 2; amount of brass obtained from looted objects has been balanced to compensate for the increase"

A little longer to type up, but communicates the change much clearer and without getting into the minutiae.

And my opinion of TFP professional image has been formed by reading posts from staff on this forum, maybe 4 staff, but 2 out of those 4 are who soured me (I know they don't represent everyone that is encompassed in TFP name). I like the game, but the public face of TFP is not one of a professional business, it's sloppy.

 
Patch notes (and not just 7dtd) are often fairly cryptic, with hundreds of them put together by people making changing and trying to quickly cover what was done.


It takes more casino tokens to smelt/craft bullet casings

maybe could have been:

Bullet casings take more brass to craft to reduce duke smelting use. Other brass item (doorknobs, etc) yields have been increased to compensate.

But it's really tough to be short and to the point and still give enough information. Overall I would probably say spending another couple of hours on a patch note to be clearer would be a good use of time, to better serve the community.

We'd still find some thingsto "mention" we didn't agree/like with though, I'm sure :D

 
Patch notes (and not just 7dtd) are often fairly cryptic, with hundreds of them put together by people making changing and trying to quickly cover what was done.
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This is simply untrue. This is the first time I have seen/remember where something in the patch notes completely failed to explain the change.

Other companies do not do this trust me, I know this for a fact. TFP also do not, as I said this is the first time I've seen it happen.

Hundreds? no you need to recount the patch notes in this change. You are over exaggerating in order to make an excuse for the poor patch note. I mean no offense. I just hate when truth is distorted by people who fail to listen or done on purpose for whatever reasons they have. I'm not saying you are distorting the truth on purpose but you are distorting the truth. :)

If any game company releases patch notes that are cryptic it is because they have no clue what they are doing and should probably fire whoever writes them and hire someone else more competent. Again though, gaming companies do not do this, not the fun pimps or any others that I have seen or worked with.

TFP are amateurs so these types of mistakes are expected. After all this is there first game and if you look in to the backround of the employees, you would understand what I'm saying. <--don't take that the wrong way...Fun Pimps... :)

 
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would be that it would take more casino tokens to make one unit of brass, not that it would take more brass to make one bullet casing.
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But taking more tokens to make one brass and taking more brass to craft a casing is basically the same thing. Either way: you need more tokens to craft casings than before. You seem really hung up on something that is so trivial. And since they upped the amount of brass you get elsewhere, it's the same as before for everything else. They obviously had a reason to do it this way instead of the way you thought it was.

They stated it the way they did because the changes were meant to nerf tokens. So that was the important part.

 
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