To TFP. This video says it all.

[RipClaw]

Yeah, but the problem is the one dev working on pathing is faatal, and as workaholic as he may be, my guess is he can't test 300 POIs by himself after each change.

I think this is the case where they first go through QA, but if that fails, the EA community is exactly what they need to find out these occurrences.

He doesn't have to test all 300 of them, but some elements of POI are common, like a table or a shelf. If I remember correctly faatal had an obstacle course for the zombies to test the pathing. There he could add elements that could possibly be a problem.

And he should have some setups with ladders there, too. These have also proved to be a challenge for the zombies.

 

[Roland]

When I change something in a software I run tests to make sure I didn't accidentally break something else. I just assumed that the Fun Pimps were testing the pathing in existing POIs to make sure they didn't create new problems while trying to fix other problems.

You assume right but what you are missing is that we are part of that testing process. They didn't claim that what they released to us was the final form. What you are saying above would be like if you made a change in your software and then started a test to make sure that change didn't break anything but while doing that task a co-worker tries your changes and quickly sees something broken and then sends you an email saying " I assumed you would always test things you change to make sure nothing broke but I found something broken so please start testing all your changes."

Would you just take that or explain that you were in the middle of that very task and wasn't finished testing yet?

 

[Laz Man]

He doesn't have to test all 300 of them, but some elements of POI are common, like a table or a shelf. If I remember correctly faatal had an obstacle course for the zombies to test the pathing. There he could add elements that could possibly be a problem.

And he should have some setups with ladders there, too. These have also proved to be a challenge for the zombies.

That is correct, he has several prefab files where he tests AI changes.  Feel free to look at it yourself in the prefab editor to see how extensive his testing is.  As mentioned, there is no way Faatal will catch every possible configuration of blocks despite his efforts to do so.

What would be helpful is a bug report or at the very least a screenshot of the POI setup you are referring to so it can be looked into and hopefully fixed.  Software development is an iterative process and it is common for new and old issues to occur as the product is worked on.

Looking at the big picture, I personally feel the AI is far better then people give it credit for.  What other game on the market has an AI that can successfully navigate a fully destructible world as good as 7 days to die?

It always brings a moment of awe when I see the AI able to successfully reach a player at the top of a multi story building.  This is even more evident with feral sense in the new downtown buildings in A20.  It certainly has come along way.

 

[Matt115]

Looking at the big picture, I personally feel the AI is far better then people give it credit for.  What other game on the market has an AI that can successfully navigate a fully destructible world as good as 7 days to die?

And that's nothing good you know? because sometimes is better to have AI stupid as hell. Dying light is good example of that - world is not fully destructible and zombie are much more stupid. if they  blocked by car they will just look on you . Sometimes zombies can radomly fall from higher place or just stand under  wall. And that's rly good- zombie have dead brain. But in 7dtd zombies have xrays in their eyes - okay if TFP would add let say - they own variant of nemesis , mr X or  executioner- i woudn't complain because bioweapon can have dunno  six sense etc. But damn zombies are too smart.  just let them stuck somewhere fall to pit without chance get out etc Because 7dtd is now like Quiet place but zombies are even smarter that aliens

 

[Matt115]

es that are not working as intended is part of development. You and people like you truly don't understand early access updates. You just want DLC expansions for an already finished game and when features go through multiple iterations you get upset thinking that it is because of some small other faction of the player base that somehow got influence over the developers. There is such an easier explanation that is the real truth. Rick and Joel are making the game they want and because this is the alpha phase of development, features are developed over time through iteration. The developers choose what they want and need to work on. Some features get punted because there are other priorities. If those other priorities aren't as exciting to you as water and bandits, too bad. Go back to console until the PC version is done.

-------------

It really does show the wrong mentality playing an early access game when you have a former console gamer who played a finished version of 7 Days to Die and experienced DLC updates to that game on the Playstation. He has obviously crossed over to PC with the same mentality he had when on console-- that the game is really basically done and not really actually in development. For a console player whose entire platform gets a restart every 5-6 years its gotta be tough to enter the realm of 9-10 year development cycles.

Honestly, guys-- his whole video is based on assumptions and guess about developer motivations and he is just flat out wrong. I'm sure he will get lots of views and clicks from people simultaneously adjusting the tinfoil hats on their heads...

well some games have dlc in early access so this can work ( i don't say this is good idea i mean this happed before). Well Rick and Joel can do whatever they want that's true. But i agree with this guy with one thing - some things were change too many times - zombie AI is good example. Rick and Joel wanted to change this again and again and gain- but i think a lot of players thought it is good enough. So this is for some of us like - making the best looking paintings on staircase wall in flat -  yep they work hard about that but... we can have just 1 colour wall because we need more handrails

 

[BFT2020]

Eh this video says it all for me when I am playing 7D2D

 

[Matt115]

The crawling change certainly helps but its not perfect.  Considering over 1300 shapes were added, there were bound to be more bugs which will be addressed as time permits.

Yes that's is cool that 1300 shapes are added but...  this don't solve problem that zombie are too smart. In typical zombie games you can find zombie stucked in collapsed building, closed rooms etc  So 1300 shapes sound fun but.. zombie  can radomly get thought everything everytime.  POI's looks good but zombie can easy destroy that by making holes in wall etc. 

it's 1300 shapers more right? but i see junk guns drones and... this  both things have so much diffrent art style. This is like... what if l4d2 have crossover with rage 2. 

This looks like someone was making game with realistic setting but this person't coudn't make zombie models and guns so he decided to by them in asset store.

Yes - cod vanguard or bf 2042 have this same problem but.. this don't change anything.

dead space - almost everything from artstyle point of view  suits good there, l4d2 have consistent art style,  nza 1 and 2 ( 4 is just bad about that ) etc. 

So for now this is like frankenstein  monster- a lot of things sewn together

 

[Roland]

if they  blocked by car they will just look on you .

In typical zombie games you can find zombie stucked in collapsed building 

POI's looks good but zombie can easy destroy that by making holes in wall etc.

Thank goodness the Devs don't think like you do. Zombies that just look at you and don't try to eat you when they see you? That's typical?

I'm glad they bash holes in the wall and come through. I'm glad they don't just stand there when a car is in the way. I'm glad the devs work hard making sure the zombies DON'T just stay stuck behind rubble.

What you want sounds like a mod. A super boring unfun mod but a mod nontheless.

This looks like someone was making game with realistic setting but this person't coudn't make zombie models and guns so he decided to by them in asset store.

That's pretty insulting. You seem to be in a minority of people who don't like the zombie models or the guns. I assure you that they are all made by our artists and not purchased from an asset store and while beauty is in the eye of the beholder your eye seems skewed compared to most players. At any rate the art is not going to redone so there is no point in giving any more such feedback. It won't change anything. You can also just give up on zombie behavior. It is never going to be what you want. They are still tuning it but...you know...slightly tuning it. Their current level of intelligence is close to where they want it. Really close.

So for now this is like frankenstein  monster- a lot of things sewn together

Don't rile the monster...

 

[Laz Man]

And that's nothing good you know? because sometimes is better to have AI stupid as hell. Dying light is good example of that - world is not fully destructible and zombie are much more stupid. if they  blocked by car they will just look on you . Sometimes zombies can radomly fall from higher place or just stand under  wall. And that's rly good- zombie have dead brain. But in 7dtd zombies have xrays in their eyes - okay if TFP would add let say - they own variant of nemesis , mr X or  executioner- i woudn't complain because bioweapon can have dunno  six sense etc. But damn zombies are too smart.  just let them stuck somewhere fall to pit without chance get out etc Because 7dtd is now like Quiet place but zombies are even smarter that aliens

Maybe they will get dumber once bandits enter the picture.  Not sure what faatal has planned.

Right now since zombies are the main threat its more fun the way it is now.

 

[Roland]

Right now since zombies are the main threat its more fun the way it is now.

It will always be more fun the way it is now vs the way he wants it. Bandits have nothing to do with it. He wants a boring game that fits his own idea of the way zombies should act even though it means it would be super boring. He should just turn zombies off and pretend they are all stuck behind stuff where he can't see them. It would be the same game.

 

[Laz Man]

It will always be more fun the way it is now vs the way he wants it. Bandits have nothing to do with it. He wants a boring game that fits his own idea of the way zombies should act even though it means it would be super boring. He should just turn zombies off and pretend they are all stuck behind stuff where he can't see them. It would be the same game.

Ill just make 10 news stand POIs so all of the positive vibes will cancel out all of the negative ones....

 

[Matt115]

Thank goodness the Devs don't think like you do. Zombies that just look at you and don't try to eat you when they see you? That's typical?

I'm glad they bash holes in the wall and come through. I'm glad they don't just stand there when a car is in the way. I'm glad the devs work hard making sure the zombies DON'T just stay stuck behind rubble.

What you want sounds like a mod. A super boring unfun mod but a mod nontheless.

I mean stand near the player they can and wave their hand. If you  sit underground they just know ( if you are quiet and you don't use anything warm) they know about that. So just change that under 10 block you cannot be dectected by zombies on ground.

Or zombie will attack only player placed blocks + wood , doors, barricades and ignoring "generated" walls , floors + ladders and decorative stuff.

That's pretty insulting. You seem to be in a minority of people who don't like the zombie models or the guns. I assure you that they are all made by our artists and not purchased from an asset store and while beauty is in the eye of the beholder your eye seems skewed compared to most players. At any rate the art is not going to redone so there is no point in giving any more such feedback. It won't change anything. You can also just give up on zombie behavior. It is never going to be what you want. They are still tuning it but...you know...slightly tuning it. Their current level of intelligence is close to where they want it. Really close.

Yep i know this can sounds that's way unfortunatly . i don't say this was purchased in asset store i trust you guys  i mean it's looks like this way. I will give you few example - in l4d2 you can find ww2 k ration crate- this looks like taken from game with diffrent setting ( and that's true because it was taken from dod), st bf2 (classic) magnaguard looks like reskin ( if they added IG droid it could works better),  in far cry 1 some mutants  models looks like taken from doom ( people complaining about mutants in fc1 a lot) etc.  - so sorry if i felt insulted.  Well i know they will not redone artstyle -  but still i hope it will be better in next game. I will give you few more example - normal zombies from stalker was cutted because they were not looking "in this same style" like rest of the game .

 

[Matt115]

Maybe they will get dumber once bandits enter the picture.  Not sure what faatal has planned.

Right now since zombies are the main threat its more fun the way it is now.

Well i hope so.  humans need to be smart, just i hope they will not spamming granades 

I think AI will be not problem for faatal. Just to figure out about spawnrate 

It will always be more fun the way it is now vs the way he wants it. Bandits have nothing to do with it. He wants a boring game that fits his own idea of the way zombies should act even though it means it would be super boring. He should just turn zombies off and pretend they are all stuck behind stuff where he can't see them. It would be the same game.

No, damn i mean to be more stupid not totaly stupid ( but maybe passive zombie type in ds style could be interesting idea). 

Okay let say you put 3 sleeper zombies in room - you will start shoting. zombies in this room will be only attacking windows and door  to get out. and ignoring walls. If they can't because let say- this is collapsed tunnel - zombie will be only attacking rubble ignoring walls.

But if  zombies will stuck in room without doors ( let say basement) they will just try to climb over or wait for player.

Ill just make 10 news stand POIs so all of the positive vibes will cancel out all of the negative ones....

hahaahha perfect.  you always can say something positive.

Okay i will write something about my behaviour - well i know a lot of things will not change - like guns models.

I'm not gameplay type of person- i know some guys will test shotgun for  5 h and write something like " this shotgun would be better if dmg was higher by 13,5% but range smaller by 8%" or people who analys traders prices. They do their job.

I'm focusing on artitic side of game. I can say a lot of good things about visuals - Pois's looks rly good and i don't have too much comments about that (  just change how furnitures are put in some pois) . props ( except new wood spikes looks too much like ww1 old spikes decying because it is too wet for them). Traders models looks rly good.

Some things just need to be polished- more corpses on streets with few new models,  on few building you can find pictures of missing/dead people- that's okay just add more posters writing on walls ,graffiti etc maybe more types of cars and honestly that's will be all about POI's and world.

Guns were better in previouse alphas because they looks too much like mad max/ rage. I know it will not change so i won't talk about this now.

About zombies - well i don't know what Devs rly want to keep- because normal zombies look's universal virus zombie - well that's good just add more variants. But i have big problems with rest of the zombies-  crawler looks too much like like something from walking dead - if zombie are not "headshot only" this and burned zombie would be dead because too much damage they get ( but older version of burning zombie just with better textures would suit better). screamer zombie looks  so good - i like her but... this looks more like experiment so maybe patients outfit could be better, spider zombie typical mutant, radiactive and fat coop look like changed by radioactivity normal zombies , but there is problem with wight - if they want too keep spider as mutant so wight would be better as mutant too that normal zombie because it don't looks so powerfull now. 

Well  i know you guys know more about devs plans about their new games etc but i don't so i want to give as much advices as i can = well i can always totaly waste a time - because they would make rts or rpg in the future. But if they want to make something similar - let say  7dtd in medival period i will spamming stuff about artstyle as fast i get new info. Until this  time  i just have to wait.

 

[Roland]

If you  sit underground they just know ( if you are quiet and you don't use anything warm) they know about that. So just change that under 10 block you cannot be dectected by zombies on ground.

I've been playing for the last two weeks in the wasteland with an underground base I dug under the main road near the trader. My shaft goes straight down with a ladder about 7 blocks. We forge stuff, cook stuff mine out outgoing tunnels and.....nothing. Not a single zombie has dug down to get us-- in the wasteland. We aren't close to bedrock. One time we left the hatch open and 3-4 zombies came down and we killed them and then ran up topside and killed a few more.

I dunno....not really seeing in my game what you are seeing in yours. Could be a bug I'm experiencing. Hope so because it has been a cake walk and we were kind of hoping for more of a mole war.

 

[Laz Man]

I've been playing for the last two weeks in the wasteland with an underground base I dug under the main road near the trader. My shaft goes straight down with a ladder about 7 blocks. We forge stuff, cook stuff mine out outgoing tunnels and.....nothing. Not a single zombie has dug down to get us-- in the wasteland. We aren't close to bedrock. One time we left the hatch open and 3-4 zombies came down and we killed them and then ran up topside and killed a few more.

I dunno....not really seeing in my game what you are seeing in yours. Could be a bug I'm experiencing. Hope so because it has been a cake walk and we were kind of hoping for more of a mole war.

You guys should try something like this.  I built this in survival mode on our dedicated server back in A18.  Saddly we never got to test it against bloodmoon.  I might have the base exported as a prefab somewhere, maybe I can convert it for some fun.

 

[RipClaw]

Looking at the big picture, I personally feel the AI is far better then people give it credit for.  What other game on the market has an AI that can successfully navigate a fully destructible world as good as 7 days to die?

It always brings a moment of awe when I see the AI able to successfully reach a player at the top of a multi story building.  This is even more evident with feral sense in the new downtown buildings in A20.  It certainly has come along way.

The AI is really good in this respect but it seems to me that the more features are added the more often you see strange behavior in the zombies that seems unintentionally funny.

 

[Matt115]

12 hours ago, Laz Man said:



You guys should try something like this.  I built this in survival mode on our dedicated server back in A18.  Saddly we never got to test it against bloodmoon.  I might have the base exported as a prefab somewhere, maybe I can convert it for some fun.

nice design

 

[POCKET951]

13 hours ago, Laz Man said:



You guys should try something like this.  I built this in survival mode on our dedicated server back in A18.  Saddly we never got to test it against bloodmoon.  I might have the base exported as a prefab somewhere, maybe I can convert it for some fun.

@Laz Man NGL, it would be really sick if you converted your base into a POI that would actually exist in the game (obviously without all the player stuff like forges and storage and what not. would require a little DIY interior design

I know you guys have alot on your plate for POI projects, but any chance you guys could make some time for this??

I realize this is probably a big ask and a pipe dream but I am allowed to hope and dream right?

on a random tangent, will there eventually be steam workshop functionality for 7 days to die( as it goes gold or closer to finish)

like would the community be able to design and upload Pois that the community could vote on, and every so often you guys would add the Top Y number of Pois in the workshop to the game or some similar system?

 

[Laz Man]

@Laz Man NGL, it would be really sick if you converted your base into a POI that would actually exist in the game (obviously without all the player stuff like forges and storage and what not. would require a little DIY interior design

I know you guys have alot on your plate for POI projects, but any chance you guys could make some time for this??

I realize this is probably a big ask and a pipe dream but I am allowed to hope and dream right?

We will see, I am sure we make some bandit POIs at some point, maybe some elements of this could make it into one.

 

[POCKET951]

We will see, I am sure we make some bandit POIs at some point, maybe some elements of this could make it into one.

This base could def make sense as a bandit POI. would be really sick if this was one of them, or even if elements of this base were used in one. 

If you guys made a gofundme for it I would pitch in

also that is something I have never really thought about with Bandits....them having there own fortified bases or PoIs/strongholds within the map.

I think there is alot of really cool design space there that could be tapped into and that gets me even more hyped for bandits.

imagine having like a special quest or a tier 6 quest to takedown and conquer a bandit fortress and part of the reward being that you could use the base for yourself.

Obviously you wouldn't be able to conquer or take every bandit stronghold on the map or entirely remove them because that wouldn't be fun if they were gone

don't mind me, just day dreaming about bandits in 7DtD