PC Thoughts on current game stage. What is missing, what feels wrong.

Z

Zephanyah

New member
I just wrote down what bothers me and what runs through my mind thinking about the current game. I don't even bother complaining about missing optimization and jump right to the things I feel could be different or are missing. Please let me know what you guys think.

I am craving the old skill system. Learning by doing. It is much more interactive and suits you no matter how you playstyle is. This one just restricts you.

For example: I am loving to play melee knife killer and hunter. I like to be fast and agile. I specialize in roaming the wilderness searching for treasures, exploring new locations and hunting treasures, animals and quests. For an ideal skilling I need 10 points in Fortitude And Agility for light armour, suvivability and of course my knife skills and faster slashes. I need to put points in perception if I want to be good at finding animals and treasures. I need to put points in Strength because everybody needs Pack Mule and every Melee fighter needs Sexual Tyrannosaurus. And I need to put full 16 points in Intelligence for Quests and for Bartering to be even effective for the team. It is nearly impossible to specialize.

Also: Katanas and swords. You could find them in a Theater as probs, in museums or as a special and rare decoration above a fireplace or something. Of course a book series featuring bladed weapons would be very nice as well.

Also: The values of explosives (Arrows, Grenates etc) should depend on the person with explosive skills, who builds them. If I observed correctly it depends on the skill you have with one specific weapon, which doesn't make sense for the explosion per se.

Also: Gameplay was much more diverse without the houses as dungeons. I am not saying you should get rid of ther dungeons, BUT it is always the same. You follow a specific pattern and a labyrinth-like way through EVERY building. Even very small ones. Firstly it doesn't make sense that every citizen throuout the world had the time to build a complex defense system like that and secondly it is boring after a while. Maybe just include SOME of the old houses so it gives you something unexpected while looting. Big hordes of zombies could appear in more than the final loot room or even instead of there. In fact there doesn't have to be a final loot room like that at all. It seems so extremely constructed and not life-like.

Also: I wish there were more and even more important BIGGER hordes striding through the world. That includes wolf packs and even deer herds. Maybe you think it is too easy to get to meat this way but especially in the early stages this is very hard to manage. Just think about the confusion a scattering deer herd would bring or the danger of a pack of 4 or more wolves.

Also: Did you consider doing more naval stuff? Boats and rafts for example or diving equipment?! It would open possibilities. Just saying. Like bulding ferries instead of bridges where you need to cross a wide river. Or junk treasures under water. Not unlikely in a city with a river running through it. There could even be some naval infected species like beavers or the possibility to fish.

At last I HAVE to mention the physics for all my teammates and me. It is nearly impossible at times to predict which constuctions will be stable and which are not. And when something collapses you are screwed with you current planning, because it is not comprehensible which part of the construction is causing the instability. You basicly have to leave the part of the construction alone and try something else. Reinforching doesn't work most of the time, taking anything away let's it collapse more and more even if it is only a couch or something similarily unsupporting. I think many people would do happy backflips if the pimps would revisit this issue.

Okay. I think I am done. Please comment. Am I talking BS? Have you similar thoughts or even more suggestions to the current state?

Let me know.

Thanks.

Zeph

 
I just realized I don't say anything particularly positive in this post. I apologize for that. I love this game and it is the only one I play continually with my friends. But this is not a post to adress how awesome the game already is but to think about what can be improved.

 
About Pack Mule. You can unlock the entire backpack without putting a single point in Pack Mule.

You need the Triple Pockets Mod and the book for the Cargo Pocket Mod. Each Triple Pockets Mod unlocks 3 slots in the backpack and each Cargo Pocket Mod unlocks 2 slots. There are 3 pieces of clothing in which you can put the Cargo Pocket Mod. So you can unlock 6 slots in total. And there are 5 pieces of armor in which you can put Triple Pockets Mod. With this you can unlock 15 slots. So you can unlock 21 slots with pockets only.

 
Yes. You are right. And I am aware of that. It is one of the most annoying features of the game but in a way one of the most realistic ones too. I love it personally and I am using at least the first perk level of thist because it usually takes a lot of time advancing to a state where you can get no moving penalties for a full inventory. Finding the books and/or the the bags takes a lot of time. But I love it because it should be realistic.

 
LBD was stupid imo. At least how it was done in this game. Sitting in front of the forge and watching anvils beeing crafted to get more tool smithing or running in circles the whole night in early game to push atlethic? Lame tbh. Reminded me of Morrowind where i would jump all the time instead of walking to get up the skill up. Maybe if done differently it would work, but what we had in 7 days just sucked.

I never put anything in packmule, i stay close to home early game so i can easily unload and i use stereoids whenever i can. A chest outside for quests that i can put staff in when encumbered and empty it to get the stuff home when the quest is done. Also i get the minibike as soon as i can, wrenching cars gives you a lot of gas even in early game.

The water physic (wich is broken right now) is at the very end of the to do list i doubt we will see anything naval. Maybe if there is a DLC. If there is DLC´s planned? No clue.

Swords and Katanas? Yes pls.Pretty please with a cherry on top.

Dungeon POI´s need more variance. Either with random layouts so you can never tell where the loot is or how the house looks inside or enough different POI´s that you just can´t remember them all. Would already be a huge step forward if it wasn´t so damn easy to get to the main loot like you can in many POI´s right now without having to fight a single zombie.

There is dog and wolve hordes. I just had one at day 4. One big direwolf and 5 normal ones. Deer hordes would be way too OP. This is a survival game, it is supposed to be a challenge to get food. Wich isn´t the case in this game. Unless my very first few games i never struggled to get enough food. Was like that in every version (Since it is on steam that is, can´t remember wich version it was when it came on steam) That volve horde gave me enough food for days. It´s a nice challenge and i was lucky to be in the 2nd floor of a POI when they came, but on the other hand it makes the survival part a joke.

I agree with bigger and more dangerous zombie hordes that roam around. Generaly more zombies are needed. I have a small town where i live, and when i uncovered it, i had a single zombie outside of the houses. A single one. In a town with like 20 houses.

 
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I am craving the old skill system. Learning by doing. It is much more interactive and suits you no matter how you playstyle is. This one just restricts you.
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Somehow (and I am not attributing both of these to you Zeph), according to this forum both of these things are true for the current skill system:

A) It's bad because I can go do anything I want - kill zombies, mine rocks, upgrade blocks, complete quests - and magically become an expert in guns or crafting or healing

B) It's bad because it's too restricting

Zeph, you're in the B camp and I don't get the complaint there. I can kinda see how people might take position A, but how is the current system "restricting"? You literally earn skill in anything you want by doing...everything! Under LBD the only way to get good at crafting bows was to craft and scrap 1,000 bows. With the current system you can do literally any XP-earning task and get better at crafting bows. Play however you want and you can get any skill you want. Restricting, tho?

I think it is an arguable point that the current system is too unrestricted. I mean there is some logic to getting better at bows by crafting bows. It just sucked (IMO) as a game mechanic. As pApA said, maybe it could work if done differently, but that ship has sailed.

 
Concerning skill points, you don’t “need” to put points in any particular skill tree, you just have a preferred way to play. This is especially true in multiplayer where each player can specialize. But even in solo play, skill points come down to personal preference. For example, I put as few points in the intellect skill tree as possible. In my current playthrough, it’s day 40+ and I’ve put 0 points in intellect. I’ve spread my points primarily between strength and perception. Across my playthroughs this is fairly consistent because I highly value the perks in strength and perception. But I don’t have to spend points in either, I would just need to adjust my playstyle to accommodate this.

 
I am craving the old skill system. Learning by doing. It is much more interactive and suits you no matter how you playstyle is. This one just restricts you.
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Nothing to say about LBD. It is gone. Hopefully some kind of mod will be possible in the future.

For example: I am loving to play melee knife killer and hunter. I like to be fast and agile. I specialize in roaming the wilderness searching for treasures, exploring new locations and hunting treasures, animals and quests. For an ideal skilling I need 10 points in Fortitude And Agility for light armour, suvivability and of course my knife skills and faster slashes. I need to put points in perception if I want to be good at finding animals and treasures. I need to put points in Strength because everybody needs Pack Mule and every Melee fighter needs Sexual Tyrannosaurus. And I need to put full 16 points in Intelligence for Quests and for Bartering to be even effective for the team. It is nearly impossible to specialize.
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What you describe doesn't sound like specializing to me. It sounds like you want to be good in everything. Specializing by definition means that you sacrifice being weak in some areas so that you can strong in a couple of areas. Now, I do understand the restrictiveness of the system. You are locked into the specific specialties defined by the game. If you want to dictate your own specialties by picking 2 or 3 things that all exist in separate attributes then it is a lot more expensive to specialize and you have no points left over for making some of those other weaknesses at least average. It would be great if someone could come out with a utility that would let us pick and choose which perks go under which attribute so that before the game starts you could define your own set of perks that you want all under one attribute. That would really take the restrictiveness off of the game. But that would also need to be a mod and not the vanilla because the vanilla is the vision of specialties defined by the developers for their game.

Something I would suggest to you if you want to go after several perks in different attributes is to mod the game to get 2 skillpoints every time you level. It is an easy mod and if you are on someone else's server you would have to discuss it with the admin. Another thing you can do in the options is change block damage to 300%. That would free up the "need" to go into strength for Miner69. Or....you just focus on blades and hunting to be strong in those areas and accept the weaknesses inherent by not advancing in Strength and Intelligence. That is actual specialization.

Also: Katanas and swords. You could find them in a Theater as probs, in museums or as a special and rare decoration above a fireplace or something. Of course a book series featuring bladed weapons would be very nice as well.
Also: The values of explosives (Arrows, Grenates etc) should depend on the person with explosive skills, who builds them. If I observed correctly it depends on the skill you have with one specific weapon, which doesn't make sense for the explosion per se.
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I have no problem with these suggestions. Good! Katana really is a must for a zombie game given the popularity of The Walking Dead. Seems a no brainer. Not sure why the devs have been resistant to it and insisting that the machete is this game's sword.

Also: Gameplay was much more diverse without the houses as dungeons. I am not saying you should get rid of ther dungeons, BUT it is always the same. You follow a specific pattern and a labyrinth-like way through EVERY building. Even very small ones. Firstly it doesn't make sense that every citizen throuout the world had the time to build a complex defense system like that and secondly it is boring after a while. Maybe just include SOME of the old houses so it gives you something unexpected while looting. Big hordes of zombies could appear in more than the final loot room or even instead of there. In fact there doesn't have to be a final loot room like that at all. It seems so extremely constructed and not life-like.
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I never follow the lights. Its a voxel world. I make my own path. The POIs are much more interesting that way. Screw the lights. The old empty POI's were boring. The game already has SOME empty non dungeon POI's. I guess you want some more... :)

Also: I wish there were more and even more important BIGGER hordes striding through the world. That includes wolf packs and even deer herds. Maybe you think it is too easy to get to meat this way but especially in the early stages this is very hard to manage. Just think about the confusion a scattering deer herd would bring or the danger of a pack of 4 or more wolves.
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"Smaller hordes and 1-2 zombies per several chunks please", said no one ever except for Madmole. There is a plan for an new system called the encounter system to give a better illusion of more zombies. But for now mod your game for larger hordes and more wilderness spawns. There are several varieties and it is worth it.

Also: Did you consider doing more naval stuff? Boats and rafts for example or diving equipment?! It would open possibilities. Just saying. Like bulding ferries instead of bridges where you need to cross a wide river. Or junk treasures under water. Not unlikely in a city with a river running through it. There could even be some naval infected species like beavers or the possibility to fish.
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Water will be fixed in a future update, there is a raft already designed but not implemented. Once water is fixed submerged POIs and loot containers and decorations will be considered. So far there is zero interest by the developers to add fishing.

At last I HAVE to mention the physics for all my teammates and me. It is nearly impossible at times to predict which constuctions will be stable and which are not. And when something collapses you are screwed with you current planning, because it is not comprehensible which part of the construction is causing the instability. You basicly have to leave the part of the construction alone and try something else. Reinforching doesn't work most of the time, taking anything away let's it collapse more and more even if it is only a couch or something similarily unsupporting. I think many people would do happy backflips if the pimps would revisit this issue.
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Gazz has a special place in his heart for SI so I am sure it will be visited. The problem now is there is no room in Gazz's schedule for SI with his huge list of currently prioritized tasks. Just make sure you haven't mined anywhere underneath your base. That is usually the killer of SI.

 
@OP:

Half of what you wrote has nothing to do with Game stage.

But I have an issue with how Game Stage works.

Horde nights are too hard, and other nights are too easy.

I can't fix this in settings, because I'll either make horde night harder or the rest of the game easier.

 
You can fix it in the settings known as "xml". Increase the zombie spawns at night and they will be everywhere.

 
...What Roland said. We have our Spawning.xml set way up in regard to zombie counts. You often can't stop while travelling without being swarmed, zombies come from the streets to plow in behind while looting a building, and don't even think about going to the Wasteland at night until you are fully decked out in good armor and have several automatic weapons loaded and ammo to spare. It's an easy edit and just needs to be done server-side.

 
...What Roland said. We have our Spawning.xml set way up in regard to zombie counts. You often can't stop while travelling without being swarmed, zombies come from the streets to plow in behind while looting a building, and don't even think about going to the Wasteland at night until you are fully decked out in good armor and have several automatic weapons loaded and ammo to spare. It's an easy edit and just needs to be done server-side.
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I have also done this. I'd say it verges on mandatory. Game is basically bad if you don't do it but wonderful if you do.

 
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I like every home being a dungeon. There needs be trade-offs in the way we build a character. You'll be able to make enough mods to max out your inventory. there's a very interesting perk you can get from reading a magazine ends your encumbrance at night

 
I am craving the old skill system. Learning by doing. It is much more interactive and suits you no matter how you playstyle is. This one just restricts you.
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I don't like the current skill system. To be more precise it's not even the system itself, it is how the skills and perks are distributed to different trees and their prerequisits.

But LBD is also bad, because it leads to spamcrafting. Crafting bow after bow for a whole night, just to be able to craft better bows or running in circles just to improve your athletics is also a bad system, which has to be balanced in other ways.

 
I see, makes more sence now.
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Sorry. Didn't get why there was confusion^^

Another question regarding previous posts: How does the spawning.xml work? Does it just spawn for your game? I would think that you need a spawning.xml for every game you are playing. Or does that not matter at all because it is spawning for you only. No. That doesn't make sense either. couldn't find the file on server config though. Just in my game folder.

 
Sorry. Didn't get why there was confusion^^

Another question regarding previous posts: How does the spawning.xml work? Does it just spawn for your game? I would think that you need a spawning.xml for every game you are playing. Or does that not matter at all because it is spawning for you only. No. That doesn't make sense either. couldn't find the file on server config though. Just in my game folder.
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My headless server has a file ".../Data/Config/spawning.xml" like any other installation of the game does as well. And when you connect to a server you download all the xml files in Config to your clients and use that, not your local xml

 
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