Naomi Roval
Refugee
I've posted this in the steam related forums on the 19th of Jan 2019. It was regarding the AI of the zombies and how it makes sense. I've just created my account here so I'm not entirely sure where to post this (Under bugs or general discussions?) and to avoid any questions I'm just going to post the entire thing as is on Steam.:
All this is making it sound like the zombies are all Prophets or Oracles and they've seen your entire base design and weighted all possible outcomes like the main antagonist of the final Resident Evil movie. Like they know there's dirt all around your house but during construction you accidently hit some of the dirt blocks that lead from the outside of your house to the inside of your indoor crops. Or they know there is some maticulesly placed easy-access Arch looking doorway that leads right to the room you're in which is all comprised out of Steel Blocks so they'll do their damnest to get to the Arch rather than attempt to smash the steel walls you have, which is what they SHOULDN'T BE DOING. It's like they have some unlogical sense of exactly what the easiest route into your base would be and to me that's BS. Like what do they have some sort of hive mentality? When a wall gets smashed and a hole into your base is opened the one zed that smashed it starts telepathically signaling everyone around him "HERE BROTHERS!" like to me that doesn't sound fun to play. It took you nearly 3 days of building and more than 7 days of farming to get all the mats to build a massive wall but 1 breach is all it takes for them to completely ignore the rest of the wall? What's the point of having a wall then? Why not just go underground? Since they void any above-ground building techniques or designs, building at bedrock just seems easier. Less of a headache when they start becoming super smart since you have the Earth's Mantle between you and them.
(Now for the important part which this thread is supposed to revolve around)
EDIT: Again, as I've said in previous threads, this would not be a problem at all if they just established the lore of the zombies. Right now we're all building to survive the ZOMBIE apocolypse. These are not zombies. These are rotten geniuses. It's their game, no one is limiting them. They have the freedom to make up anything they want and no lore is going to tell them otherwise. It's not like Conan Exiles where the game has to cater to the lore within Conan The Barbarian. They can say anything! Say it was an ancient curse, or aliens, or the illuminati, it's THEIR game. If I knew I would be fighting mole men I would prepare my base to withstand a mole men attack. If I knew I would be fighting zeds that could 1 shot cobblestone walls I wouldn't be building a base at all, I'd be holding up on a hospital's roof. If I knew I would be fighting friggin Harpies I would be going underground. Just let us know exactly what we're facing rather than updating the zombies' AI in ways that TFP are not even sure what will happen.
And that's the end.
I had commented this after people discussing zombie pathing mechanics and internal stuff which I have no clue about. What I could pick up from it is general info like which blocks they would ignore, how they go about targetting blocks, how their pathfinding system works. etc.
The link to the Steam forums where I posted this is here: (The above comment is on the 7th page sorted by 50 comments on a page) https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/3441214221469076353/?ctp=7
The problem I had and still have are with the zombies' lore. You guys haven't really mentioned any lore so it might not be a focus for now and I'm not sure if you guys want to even implement lore into 7DTD. The game at the moment is a first person shooter to me. Like one of those games that start you off in a industrial area with nothing on you except your fists and then you have to find guns and ammo which is... painstakingly easy at the moment... The infection is not a problem at all as I've heard a few people saying it doesn't kill you anymore, just brings you down to 10 HP (from 200HP) and brings your max health down to 10 as well.
On point with the lore: No one knows what the zombies are. They're stronger than normal humans clearly, and they have cognitive function. Even without the pathfinding (issue) they would still have cognitive function since they hunt in packs or.. Hordes. I could solve the horde problem by just saying "They make sounds, so the others follow their sounds and that's how a wandering horde is created." Even though the game does not support that at all. That and the blood moon takes cognitive function to a whole 'nother level. They can dig, they can make choices, they can think and very well too, they are strong and stupidly so, they can smell or sense or hear you from a ridiculous distance (in the Blood Moon anyways), and most importantly, they're all oracles or telepathic (I'm not going to repeat what that means, you already know by now). I think if you guys sorted out the lore of the zombies, or just gave vague hints as to what they are or where they came from even, people would calm down about losing their bases and OP zombie bullet sponges etc. Because they're signing up to fight super mutant bullet sponges (if you called them that) They know they'd be fighting them. They wouldn't complain after being killed by one because they expected it. It's a physical class of zombie in the game, not just an annoying bullet sponge that won't die and keeps smashing your walls.
The problem I have with the zombies being this way is that you can't prepare for them. At all. I build at bedrock personally because it's just easier, but once the zombies breach the mantle and start flooding into my base, what do I do? Do I build a normal base and have them tear that down like a baby falling over a sandcastle? Do I attempt to go underground again so they can repeat what they just did to me in my previous base? Do I hold up in a massive PoI only to have them tear it down in a few days later? Like seriously, what do I do? In my opinion, this is not fun for me to play. I'm having a difficult time staying and playing this game knowing my base will just crumble without warning sometimes, or that while looting a stray pack of zombie dogs which are part of the problems I listed above, don't make any sort of noises or give me any sort of indication they're gunning for me, comes and eats me alive or really lowers my health at least. Pair this with stutters during (what's supposed to be) a smooth 60/30fps and you've entered my hell.
All this is making it sound like the zombies are all Prophets or Oracles and they've seen your entire base design and weighted all possible outcomes like the main antagonist of the final Resident Evil movie. Like they know there's dirt all around your house but during construction you accidently hit some of the dirt blocks that lead from the outside of your house to the inside of your indoor crops. Or they know there is some maticulesly placed easy-access Arch looking doorway that leads right to the room you're in which is all comprised out of Steel Blocks so they'll do their damnest to get to the Arch rather than attempt to smash the steel walls you have, which is what they SHOULDN'T BE DOING. It's like they have some unlogical sense of exactly what the easiest route into your base would be and to me that's BS. Like what do they have some sort of hive mentality? When a wall gets smashed and a hole into your base is opened the one zed that smashed it starts telepathically signaling everyone around him "HERE BROTHERS!" like to me that doesn't sound fun to play. It took you nearly 3 days of building and more than 7 days of farming to get all the mats to build a massive wall but 1 breach is all it takes for them to completely ignore the rest of the wall? What's the point of having a wall then? Why not just go underground? Since they void any above-ground building techniques or designs, building at bedrock just seems easier. Less of a headache when they start becoming super smart since you have the Earth's Mantle between you and them.
(Now for the important part which this thread is supposed to revolve around)
EDIT: Again, as I've said in previous threads, this would not be a problem at all if they just established the lore of the zombies. Right now we're all building to survive the ZOMBIE apocolypse. These are not zombies. These are rotten geniuses. It's their game, no one is limiting them. They have the freedom to make up anything they want and no lore is going to tell them otherwise. It's not like Conan Exiles where the game has to cater to the lore within Conan The Barbarian. They can say anything! Say it was an ancient curse, or aliens, or the illuminati, it's THEIR game. If I knew I would be fighting mole men I would prepare my base to withstand a mole men attack. If I knew I would be fighting zeds that could 1 shot cobblestone walls I wouldn't be building a base at all, I'd be holding up on a hospital's roof. If I knew I would be fighting friggin Harpies I would be going underground. Just let us know exactly what we're facing rather than updating the zombies' AI in ways that TFP are not even sure what will happen.
And that's the end.
I had commented this after people discussing zombie pathing mechanics and internal stuff which I have no clue about. What I could pick up from it is general info like which blocks they would ignore, how they go about targetting blocks, how their pathfinding system works. etc.
The link to the Steam forums where I posted this is here: (The above comment is on the 7th page sorted by 50 comments on a page) https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/3441214221469076353/?ctp=7
The problem I had and still have are with the zombies' lore. You guys haven't really mentioned any lore so it might not be a focus for now and I'm not sure if you guys want to even implement lore into 7DTD. The game at the moment is a first person shooter to me. Like one of those games that start you off in a industrial area with nothing on you except your fists and then you have to find guns and ammo which is... painstakingly easy at the moment... The infection is not a problem at all as I've heard a few people saying it doesn't kill you anymore, just brings you down to 10 HP (from 200HP) and brings your max health down to 10 as well.
On point with the lore: No one knows what the zombies are. They're stronger than normal humans clearly, and they have cognitive function. Even without the pathfinding (issue) they would still have cognitive function since they hunt in packs or.. Hordes. I could solve the horde problem by just saying "They make sounds, so the others follow their sounds and that's how a wandering horde is created." Even though the game does not support that at all. That and the blood moon takes cognitive function to a whole 'nother level. They can dig, they can make choices, they can think and very well too, they are strong and stupidly so, they can smell or sense or hear you from a ridiculous distance (in the Blood Moon anyways), and most importantly, they're all oracles or telepathic (I'm not going to repeat what that means, you already know by now). I think if you guys sorted out the lore of the zombies, or just gave vague hints as to what they are or where they came from even, people would calm down about losing their bases and OP zombie bullet sponges etc. Because they're signing up to fight super mutant bullet sponges (if you called them that) They know they'd be fighting them. They wouldn't complain after being killed by one because they expected it. It's a physical class of zombie in the game, not just an annoying bullet sponge that won't die and keeps smashing your walls.
The problem I have with the zombies being this way is that you can't prepare for them. At all. I build at bedrock personally because it's just easier, but once the zombies breach the mantle and start flooding into my base, what do I do? Do I build a normal base and have them tear that down like a baby falling over a sandcastle? Do I attempt to go underground again so they can repeat what they just did to me in my previous base? Do I hold up in a massive PoI only to have them tear it down in a few days later? Like seriously, what do I do? In my opinion, this is not fun for me to play. I'm having a difficult time staying and playing this game knowing my base will just crumble without warning sometimes, or that while looting a stray pack of zombie dogs which are part of the problems I listed above, don't make any sort of noises or give me any sort of indication they're gunning for me, comes and eats me alive or really lowers my health at least. Pair this with stutters during (what's supposed to be) a smooth 60/30fps and you've entered my hell.
