The use of AI assets needs to be disclosed on the Steam page for the game

[Double G]

Perhaps everyone will wake up one day and realize there's nothing creative about AI whereas creativity is humanity's divine inheritance.

If I were God and my humans figured out how to replicate how they perform, I'd be so proud of them.

Unless there is some unforeseen, staggeringly stifling roadblock on the path of AI's advancement, it will surely get to the point where it will be able to create things that match human creativity and exceed it.
Many, if not all of the leading scientists in the field of AI have been saying (and only a few years ago) that they are shocked at what AI is capable of doing today. Some thought that where AI is now would never happen. And those are the legitimate experts.

I firmly believe that we will figure out what makes us tick and we'll be able to fully replicate it.

A great doctor once said: "To the rational mind nothing is inexplicable, only unexplained".

 

[EvilPolygons]

This kind of approach always makes me chuckle.

Quite the opposite... history is full of "proof" of human creativity that goes beyond "computation" (as you call it).
Until you can prove AI can do the same, the burden of proof is on you.

The fact you consider humanity's great achievements in every field merely as "computational" progress means you're not even thinking like a human. I CAN tell a Cylon when I see one.

*cough* Colonel Tigh *cough*

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I'm not the one planning to change [human nature]

Neither am I or anyone I've cited as I think I've made abundantly clear. We're undergoing a natural process of maturation, as I see it, and no one -- not even the authors I've cited -- think (or thought) they have (or had) all the answers to life, the universe and everything; "plans" to "change human nature" or anyone or thing; or are/were absolutely certain about the future or how the process of transformation or maturation of human consciousness by-whatever-name-it-goes will turn out. Ergo, why Gebser warned it's a process that may be -- may be -- abortive. Who knows? We might destroy ourselves in the process. That's what I appreciate about bioregional, creative and regenerative systems thinking. "The world" is not a homogenous monolith. What works in one bioregion or culture may not work in another. The bioregions themselves are distinct. Yet, one way of seeing, one way of thinking, one way of knowing, one way of doing, one way of living -- one paradigm -- is being imposed upon everyone in the world...and the world, apparently, will have none of that if resistance to it is any indication.

 

[theFlu]

Yet, one way of seeing, one way of thinking, one way of knowing, one way of doing, one way of living -- one paradigm -- is being imposed upon everyone in the world

I kinda agree with the gist of that, while I disagree with the wording. Seeing, knowing, doing are well defined singular things, there is only one. "Way of living" is the only one that works to make the point.

But yeah, one paradigm imposed on the world isn't going to work - nor is it going to happen naturally. "Maturation" implies some type of improvement, but that's not in any way guaranteed by nature, partly because of way we renew. Every year there's a new set of "default humans" created, without knowledge of the thinkers you quote, nor your life experience. Even if you were correct about absolutely everything, you wouldn't be able to convince them that you are. Even if you get everything to be "fine for everyone" for a generation, the next one will figure out new ways to improve their individual lives at the cost of others. The only natural thing here is change; not maturation.

Thinkers have this habit of confusing people with thinkers. "I came to this obvious conclusion, it's only a matter of time everyone else does too." That works exactly until you get punched in the face by the guy who doesn't care for your ideals, just wants your wallet. That guy doesn't want to be part of the maturation, so he isn't. And if one respects freedom, there isn't much one can do to change it.

As a species, I think we're best off in somewhat isolated groups. Separate populations producing their own unique strengths - or at least avoiding the mistakes of others. The less single points of failure in the system, the better. The global powers that want either maximum profits from trade, or to save the planet from "those humans"; well, they'll have to employ force globally to reach their dubious goals. This is why I get queasy with ideological optimism; it won't work without force, and some of the adherents are going to be willing to try with it.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

ideological optimism

The work of authors such as Jean Gebser has nothing to do with ideological optimism or, in fact, ideology, period. "Gebser never thought for a moment that the emergent consciousness would necessarily usher in a utopian paradise where today’s complex problems would all be solved automatically." [via]

His work is concerned with a study of what he called artifacts of human consciousness evident in nearly every field of human endeavor and the mutations or leaps, as he saw it, occuring in human consciousness throughout human history. The only idea is to better comprehend ourselves and what lies beneath the troubles of our age. Oh, sure. People have come along later who say they've been inspired by Gebser and yet attempt to turn his observations into ideologies and theoretical models and/or try to make them fit their own, which I can't help but think is the last thing he would have wanted. If 'maturation' calls up notions of "improvement," "changing human nature," plans and prescriptions and policies for you, I'll offer mutation instead.

Just wanted to clear that up.

 

[Arma Rex]

I'm extremely disappointed that TFP are using generative AI, especially as an indie game developer. It feels like a huge betrayal to the creative community. Aside from that, not disclosing it on the Steam store page is in direct violation of Steam's terms, which could get the game removed. Can TFP please do better?

I'm fine with it being placeholder material, it's not as if other games do not do this (such as Ready Or Not), I would hope however that these picture frames could be used as nice easter eggs or just an opportunity for the community to submit their own photos for these assets.

 

[theFlu]

I'll offer mutation instead.

Well, that's better than maturation;

what I perceive as the natural maturation process of our species must go.

But then this means .. that things change. After a few generations it looks like it was fine, but that's survivorship bias. Why was I assuming you were being positive about the change? Your phrase:

Fortunately, there is a revolution in economics education underway and new models of socioeconomic organization, e.g. Kate Raeworth's Doughnut Economics

Starts with "fortunately", and mentions a central planning economy in Emperor's New Clothing. (yes, it's a mashup of two metaphores, sue me. it fits ) While I won't argue that the centralized climate craze isn't a mutation in the way people do things, the 15 minute prisons aren't a good outcome. I don't share the optimism.

We're quite in the weeds from the AI topic thou; I'll say this: AI is merely a power multiplier. It will be wielded by the best of people and the worst of people. Much like with nukes, it remains to be seen how long we'll last with it. With nukes, radioactive materials are at least detectable and somewhat difficult to refine, but AI research is essentially open source, thus impossible to contain.

 

[Rotor]

You peeps need to go out and have a drink.

Cuba Libre!

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Why was I assuming you were being positive

I don't know considering I mentioned more than once the mutation may be abortive and that humanity may destroy itself. I was just clearing up the Gebserian topic.

mentions a central planning economy

That's not the way I see it. It's one of many examples of new economic thought in its infancy and hardly applicable to "centralized planning" as the global economy is today. I did say people are wont to politicize it, perhaps even including Raeworth, for some strange reason I don't understand. I generally chalk that up to our largely being unable to imagine living any other way than we do now; an abject refusal to entertain new ideas; and, of course, 'The Divided Brain' (McGilchrist). 'Doughnut Economics' is neither a complete theory nor a workable model and Raeworth is an economist, not a politician. I do find it fortunate a revolution in economics education is underway in academia and would imagine for a new economy to work, it would have to be a number of bioregional, interlinked economies as opposed to the top-down, singular variety we know. Local living economies, in other words, which fits nicely with your idea of small(?), "somewhat isolated groups" except that they're not isolated. I tend to balk when people speak of centralization myself. Distributed, maybe.

AI is merely a power multiplier.

I prefer the mirror analogy, but can't agree it's an expression of "the One." Rather, I think AI an egoic expression -- anthropocentrism writ large -- and "artificial intelligence" an oxymoron.

Nice to share the weeds with you.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 7:48 PM

You peeps need to go out and have a drink.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

I agree that there doesn't need to be an argument here. A potential worry was reported, the right eyes saw the report, and now the right people are reviewing what they want to do about it.



I don't see why you need this. Your only care was to help keep things copacetic between TFP and Steam and now those two entities will repair their relationship in some way. We don't need updating on this. The only update that is our business is that they are aware and are moving forward with the feedback. You'll either see a checked box next to AI content in the future or you won't. That picture and any other AI content will either be replaced or it won't. Think of it as a fun easter egg hunt after each update in the future until you see the result.

This is the result of hiring a bunch of grapic and art designers, TFP should have recruited additional personnel to address bugs rather than to produce AI-generated wall art.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

This is the result of hiring a bunch of grapic and art designers

Graphic artists and designers wouldn't be using AI.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

This is the result of hiring a bunch of grapic and art designers, TFP should have recruited additional personnel to address bugs rather than to produce AI-generated wall art.

If those are the latest people they hired, then they most likely aren´t working on 7 days at all.