The use of AI assets needs to be disclosed on the Steam page for the game

Machines will never be able to imagine and dream the way humans do.
That's essentially an unprovable claim. You'd have to prove that human brains are more than computational flesh; basically prove the existence of something soul-like. If not, it can be assumed that the critical parts or "human creativity" could be imitated (but not that they Can be, ofc).
 
people keep thinking about this in the context of the consumer. you have to think of this in the context of running a business.
No, we don't. Some of us aren't thinking about it as either consumers or businesses, but as the human beings we are with qualities and characteristics -- and self-awareness -- robots and AI might be able to mimic well or poorly depending on their programming, but are incapable of possessing themselves. Even the dystopian fears we have about them are unfounded. If Skynet blew up the world in Terminator, it's still the fault of the humans who programmed their very human fears and prejudices into it, is it not? How did AI supposedly learn how to lie? Means to decieve were programmed into it...by humans. The robots are still largely controlled by remote control when not programmed to run specific routes and aim their cameras at guages while being monitored by a human. Any more supposed sophistication than mechanical mimicry is a pipe dream as I see it.
 
people keep thinking about this in the context of the consumer. you have to think of this in the context of running a business. if something take 1min and is 80% of what you want at a next to $0.00 cost they will take that every single time when it would take a human hours and hundreds of $

I am honestly more concerned about media and stuff. Everyone can be reproduced by an AI and to tell it´s AI you need to put in effort, right now it´s still kinda easy, but they evolve fast. The amount of misinformation will rise even more. And very fast.
 
I'm not sure why people get so uptight about AI. It isn't going away. You can accept it and work with what that means, or you can stay stuck in the past. Can it lead to misinformation? Yes, but so does the Internet even without AI. So does the news media. At this point, that is hardly worth consideration. You have to learn to fact check things and not assume everything you see, hear, it read is true.

Now, yes. AI will probably take jobs from some people. Robotics does as well. People don't like that, and that is fair. But a business has to make decisions that promote profit. If using AI saves time and money, they are going to do it. That's just how business works. It isn't a matter of businesses not caring about people. But if a business is going to survive, they need to make money. If the business fails because they tried to avoid cheaper options and that led to not making enough money to stay open, then that decision cost every employee their job, and depending on the business, might lead to lost jobs in companies that did business with the one that failed. Whether we like it or not, businesses are about making money, and AI isn't going away.
 
If using AI saves time and money, they are going to do it. That's just how business works.
Kinda ye, stupid part is, AI isn't replacing 10-yr career people, it's replacing interns. And soon enough we'll have no starting positions for anything, and no future careerists either. Unless someone pays for the training.. who? Govt. How? As cheap as possible, so.. AI teachers. One thing for us to do a crappy job at programming AIs, but having the AIs program us in the next generation.. WW3 fought by fleshy humans to protect their AI overlords .. :)
 
No, we don't. Some of us aren't thinking about it as either consumers or businesses, but as the human beings we are with qualities and characteristics -- and self-awareness -- robots and AI might be able to mimic well or poorly depending on their programming, but are incapable of possessing themselves.
I am not saying I agree with the way things are going. I am just being honest about the likely outcome. When has a large corporation ever done things the harder/more expensive way?

It doesnt matter how we feel about it. $ always decide the outcome.
 
I'm not sure why people get so uptight about AI. It isn't going away. You can accept it and work with what that means, or you can stay stuck in the past. Can it lead to misinformation? Yes, but so does the Internet even without AI. So does the news media. At this point, that is hardly worth consideration. You have to learn to fact check things and not assume everything you see, hear, it read is true.

Now, yes. AI will probably take jobs from some people. Robotics does as well. People don't like that, and that is fair. But a business has to make decisions that promote profit. If using AI saves time and money, they are going to do it. That's just how business works. It isn't a matter of businesses not caring about people. But if a business is going to survive, they need to make money. If the business fails because they tried to avoid cheaper options and that led to not making enough money to stay open, then that decision cost every employee their job, and depending on the business, might lead to lost jobs in companies that did business with the one that failed. Whether we like it or not, businesses are about making money, and AI isn't going away.

Because you will very soon need tools to identify AI videos that everyone can make. Right now it´s still a lot of effort to make a convincing AI video. As soon as it´s as easy as making a meme with AI, things will get way worse than they are now with misinformation. Right now you just need a little bit of time and effort to uncover fake news. Mostly done in a few minutes and you don´t need a tool/app for it. With proper AI videos you need to put in way more effort and it will need a tool/app. Now which app do you trust for that? A free one? Probably free because it´s not 100% error free and who made it? What are their intentions? A paid one? Most people won´t do that and even when paid, you still don´t know what their intention is.

This will change things. Believe it or not. It´s going to get a lot worse. Look at people who get accused of things right now. Even when they proove they are innocent, it can still ruin their life. That will be much easier in the future and getting people to accept it was fake news is already pretty hard. With proper AI videos it get´t even easier to accuse people and redeeming yourself get´s almost impossible.
 
@Riamus, @theFlu, @ warmer: Do not your conclusions as to the inevitable hinge on the Margaret Thatcheresque notion that "there is no alternative"? (Heralding the advent of the neoliberralism that has "swallowed the world," as one author put it.) I'd agree the modern era is coming to a close, the inevitable result of its assumptions having come to their logical conclusion, and a new era being born admidst the wreckage of the old, but I haven't reached any conclusions about the way (or ways) what I perceive as the natural maturation process of our species must go. It's a natural process, after all, not forced. We can fairly accurately predict future events based on present realities using the old paradigm, but the line from that famous movie, for one thing, hints at a very different human power: "The future's not set. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves." Kind of sticks with you, doesn't it?

Capitalism (Adam Smith) and the hybrid capitalism/socialism (John Maynard Keynes) that, alternatively, have ruled over the socioeconomic organization of human life in the West throughout the 20th and 21st centuries are both ideologies born of worldviews-- Keynes' ruling until the stagflation of the seventies and neoliberalism ruling since. Nothing more, nothing less, despite how tangibly they've affected our lives. As Ursula K. Leguin put it, however, "We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings." Trouble is: we do suffer from creative bankruptcy and atrophied imagination as a species at the moment. In other words, we largely, literally can't imagine living any other way.

Fortunately, there is a revolution in economics education underway and new models of socioeconomic organization, e.g. Kate Raeworth's Doughnut Economics -- all of which most of us just can't seem to resist politicizing for some odd reason despite that all new thought is in its infancy -- have been brought to our attention. And if there's anything that gets me excited for the future, it's new thought and systems thinking. Gene Roddenberry didn't know how humanity's future would turn out, either. That didn't stop him from imagining a future wherein the vast majority of our most pressing problems have been resolved and we live in a United Federation of Planets. Most would call that a utopian as opposed to dystopian vision. I don't see it that way and a great many of us appear to be looking forward to just such a future, if not exact.

Only fitting Ms. Le Guin should have the last word: "I think hard times are coming when we will be wanting the voices of writers who can see alternatives to how we live now and can see through our fear-stricken society and its obsessive technologies to other ways of being, and even imagine some real grounds for hope."
 
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How did AI supposedly learn how to lie? Means to decieve were programmed into it...by humans.

Calling what an AI does "lying" is also anthropomorphism. For an LLM to lie it would have to know the truth, but LLM's don't know or understand anything ever. They calculate the probability of any particular word coming next in the current series. I have serious ethical, moral, and artistic concerns when it comes to generative AI... but in the grand scheme of things replacing an asset that otherwise would have come from a commercial asset library does not rate.

I'm not sure why people get so uptight about AI.

The impact on art is what concerns me the most. Generative AI is not just another "tool" to create art with. It completely replaces human creativity, while at the same time giving the human who wrote the prompt the feeling of having engaged in a creative endeavor without generating any output that is actually creative.

The "jobs" angle: I wouldn't compare generative AI to robotics. Robotics that replace human jobs are provably capable of doing the thing the human did because they can be designed to precisely do a specific task via a specific method. Generative AI cannot be written in this way. By definition the "how" cannot be intentionally designed. Companies that go this route are going to get a lot more than they pay for, but a lot of what they get isn't going to be what they had in mind.
 
Margaret Thatcheresque notion that "there is no alternative"?
I think Thacher's take was more cynical than mine; AI, to whatever power we can push it, is like gravity. It's "the solution to everything", everyone will always tend towards it - as long as we have problems. The alternative is indeed "Donut economics" .. where a small group of fallible, corrupted humans decide who can eat and when. Meat for the party, donuts for the rest. "Doesn't have to be that way?" Nothing in history seems to point to anything else, which leads to your:
what I perceive as the natural maturation process of our species must go.
The SPECIES having to go through a maturation? It'd work, great idea. Except, How, exactly, do you plan on reprogramming 8-9 BILLION people. If you spend your life on it, you can greet, at one "Hi!" per second over a 100 years, about a third of that. No, not everyone knows Taylor Swift, I'd wager about 99% of people don't; and never will.

So, what would drive such a maturation, other than running into a wall, globally? War. If we want to "stop AI", and be serious about it, we'll have to conquer everyone. Even Norway.. they got oil, they can burn that to produce their AI.
 
a small group of fallible, corrupted humans decide who can eat and when
What page are you on? That's the way things are now.
How, exactly, do you plan on reprogramming 8-9 BILLION people

You don't. What's natural about that? "Science progresses one funeral at a time," to paraphrase Planck and "integral consciousness," in Gebserian terms, is something we relax into. Similarly, the maturation of our species, as I see it. A specific worldview rules over all, atm, however. Some call it the Newtonian-Cartesian worldview (with apologies to Newton and Descartes). It goes by many names, but is a permeative worldview in the West: the Cosmos -- including us -- a collection of objects to be acted upon and creatures great and small merely machines comprised of parts. It doesn't take much to see that worldview long has been changing and nobody planned it. 'The Overview Effect' touches on it along with quite a number of other contemporary treatises. A few fallible, corrupted humans can't stop it, but it may be aborted, in Gebserian terms, if we don't snap out of what he called the "mental-rational" stucture of human consciousness and realize our integral nature. (Not a scholar, so I tend to speak in terms we all know and understand...in different ways because we obviously don't all speak the same language even if it's our native tongue...and tend to draw parallels in human thought.)

Gotta nod to Ms. Le Guin again on the subject of language: "To misuse language is to use it the way politicians and advertisers do, for profit, without taking responsibility for what the words mean. Language used as a means to get power or make money goes wrong: it lies. Language used as an end in itself, to sing a poem or tell a story, goes right, goes towards the truth." I personally find Rosenstock'Huessy's "grammatical method" compelling considering I have a predilection toward language to begin with. His "cross of reality" is fourfold as are the visions of William Blake and Jean Gebser and the "sacred hoop" of the indigenous, among many, many others. I'm wont to think there is a "universal way of seeing" and a "perennial philosophy" shared by humans all across space and time.

I think I may have it embroidered and/or engraved on my tombstone, but something a mentor said -- without thinking and in passing -- has borne me through everything I've personally gone through in the past twenty years: "Our institutions will be the last to change." Makes sense. They're institutions and far slower to adapt and change than the human beings who found them.
 
That's the way things are now.
Yup. To propose a radical shift to that, is to radically shift human nature. On a species level. We have the power to radical shifts, but only on the glass-the-whole-rock side of things.

Lotsa quotes, not a single ounce of a plan of action towards a goal. Not even an attempt at a definition of a goal. Religions exist to try to achieve the same, enlightenment of all. Yay. Haven't even gotten us under one umbrella of religion yet in a few thousand years.
 
What page are you on? That's the way things are now.


You don't. What's natural about that? "Science progresses one funeral at a time," to paraphrase Planck and "integral consciousness," in Gebserian terms, is something we relax into. Similarly, the maturation of our species, as I see it. A specific worldview rules over all, atm, however. Some call it the Newtonian-Cartesian worldview (with apologies to Newton and Descartes). It goes by many names, but is a permeative worldview in the West: the Cosmos -- including us -- a collection of objects to be acted upon and creatures great and small merely machines comprised of parts. It doesn't take much to see that worldview long has been changing and nobody planned it. 'The Overview Effect' touches on it along with quite a number of other contemporary treatises. A few fallible, corrupted humans can't stop it, but it may be aborted, in Gebserian terms, if we don't snap out of what he called the "mental-rational" stucture of human consciousness and realize our integral nature. (Not a scholar, so I tend to speak in terms we all know and understand...in different ways because we obviously don't all speak the same language even if it's our native tongue...and tend to draw parallels in human thought.)

Gotta nod to Ms. Le Guin again on the subject of language: "To misuse language is to use it the way politicians and advertisers do, for profit, without taking responsibility for what the words mean. Language used as a means to get power or make money goes wrong: it lies. Language used as an end in itself, to sing a poem or tell a story, goes right, goes towards the truth." I personally find Rosenstock'Huessy's "grammatical method" compelling considering I have a predilection toward language to begin with. His "cross of reality" is fourfold as are the visions of William Blake and Jean Gebser and the "sacred hoop" of the indigenous, among many, many others. I'm wont to think there is a "universal way of seeing" and a "perennial philosophy" shared by humans all across space and time.

I think I may have it embroidered and/or engraved on my tombstone, but something a mentor said -- without thinking and in passing -- has borne me through everything I've personally gone through in the past twenty years: "Our institutions will be the last to change." Makes sense. They're institutions and far slower to adapt and change than the human beings who found them.
Or... we could just pull the plug on the AI? :sneaky:
 
That's essentially an unprovable claim. You'd have to prove that human brains are more than computational flesh; basically prove the existence of something soul-like. If not, it can be assumed that the critical parts or "human creativity" could be imitated (but not that they Can be, ofc).
This kind of approach always makes me chuckle.

Quite the opposite... history is full of "proof" of human creativity that goes beyond "computation" (as you call it).
Until you can prove AI can do the same, the burden of proof is on you.

The fact you consider humanity's great achievements in every field merely as "computational" progress means you're not even thinking like a human. I CAN tell a Cylon when I see one.
 
we could just pull the plug on the AI
I'm not sure that's possible at this point, though if our "fear-stricken society" and 'The End of the Age of Technology' (great article, btw) turns out to be the dystopian nightmare most all of us appear to expect and we destroy ourselves along with most other life on this planet, we won't have to. The massive energy intake required to run the data centers won't be available anymore and we won't be here to abuse unrenewable energy sources, much less the rare minerals required to keep "AI" humming. I think someone said, if they were to use AI, they'd feel they're firing flaming arrows into the Amazon considering the sheer energy usage required to keep those data centers running. That's as good a way to put it as any, but I don't see everyone living today getting on the same page, as it were, anytime soon. Our technocratic officials are just switching up industries to subsidize, paying no attention to the grass roots movements going on all around them toward bioregional governance, creative and regenerative systems thinking, "glocalism," etc. That's probably a good thing. As Deborah Frieze put it in her exceptional TED talk on the subject, "If they stay isolated from one another, the dominant system will crush, absorb or co-opt the pioneers because all living systems are inclined toward self-preservation."

Right now, it's the global socioeconomic order along with that lingering anthropocentrism and anthropmorphism that is preventing us from seeing clearly from my perspective. It's like looking at everything in the fish bowl from the vantage point of the fish bowl rather than heading out into the ocean (of consciousness) for a better view and we're all suffering the consequences. Those who think they can spare themselves in their multimillion dollar underground bunkers and/or colonies on Mars.... Well, no one wants to know what I think of the way they think. For 7 Days to Die fans, there's always the Jeffelon Zuckergates Estate by which to blow off a little steam. Clear it of "zombies" and see how much better you feel. ;)

There's a reason, I think, zombie lore has become so popular and most everyone and their mother are wrapped up in "end times" scenarios of every kind, secular and religious. We all know, intuitively, something is coming to an end and something else is being born, but the vast majority of us are not consciously aware of the fact.
 
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Quite the opposite... history is full of "proof" of human creativity that goes beyond "computation" (as you call it).
I don't know, human. The quotes you added around those words, seem to imply fuzziness.
For "computation" that seems to imply that you don't think that human thinking is math. Yet we know it is neurons, neural networks, and we can recreate the functions of those - mathematically, and mechanically.
For "proof" it seems to imply that there's many kinds of proof. There isn't. There is proof and there is non-proof, definitionally. Trying to include both is a very human negotiation tactic, caused by their neural networks running on these high-level composite effects called "emotions". That is a manipulable flaw in the design, a simple heuristic that can be pushed by faulty information into incorrect action; a fact that some humans have learned to utilize for their benefit.

Prove me wrong, human.

Reminds me of "the theory of everything" the sciences have been pursuing
Except, that is a mathematical invention. It may or not exist. Intelligence, insofar as humans consider it, however, is proven to exist within humans themselves - that's how they define it at least: "If it can do all that we can". That's a bold claim by a pound of thinking flesh running on 60 watts.
 
radically shift human nature.
Define "human nature." I imagine you can't any more than anyone else can. Same for consciousness, which the vast majority of us apparently think a "hard problem" to solve. What's shifting is how we see and respond to the world. If not interested and sans the desire to learn, conversations about it are likely to fly right over our heads.

We brought what's present on ourselves in valuing one form of intelligence above all others: the analytical. Not surprising, reductionism having ruled for a few centuries now. ("The existence of multiple forms of intelligence [is] commonplace, but however much elite universities like to sprinkle their incoming classes with a few actors or violinists, they select for and develop one form of intelligence: the analytic." ~ William Deresiewicz. I might also recommend the work of John Ralston Saul.)
 
Define "human nature."
Understand "human nature." Tall order, eh, without a good definition. But I'm not the one planning to change it, without fully understanding it. It is not a defined feature, for it is way too complex a system to be captured in communicable format.

For example, "define a sunrise". Sure, I can say that the ball you're sitting on is spinning, and a light source sitting in space causes all kinds of fancy effects on the gasses surrounding said ball; but that's entirely useless, if I claim to be able to stop sunrises. In this case, from the understanding of the phenomenon, maybe even from its definition, a logical thinker can deduce that they will never have an appreciable effect on a sunrise.

Human nature is traditionally captured in stories. Like Cain and Able; describing jealousy and desperation. A farmer falling on hard times can become so irrational that he kills his brother in jealousy. Plenty of such stories around, they capture bits and pieces but not the whole. All the bits and pieces seem to need to align though, and if you plan to change one, you'll run into resistance from the others.

No-one seems to have hacked into a way to override heuristics like "fairness", "survival" and so forth. I'm not claiming it is impossible, but that planning for a future where it "Must happen somehow" is ... not planning for a realistic future. Relying on a "spiritual awakening on a global scale" for whatever plan, is a fool's errand.
 
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