PC The real problem with the Zombie AI

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Fire_Tornado

New member
After reading several of the different threads about how people dislike the updates to the zombie's AI, I think I know what the real problem is with the AI.

The real problem is: The lack of story.

I know, I know, that's a cop-out reason, but seriously the lack of story underpins a lot of the arguments. Some people keep on saying "the dumb zombies", or the zombies now have "architectural degrees", and various other ways to describe the zombies and say how the AI doesn't match up.

If we had the back story of what was creating the "zombies", I think it would refine and sharpen both what the devs want to make happen and what the player can expect.

Virus eating brains of the weak, and super-charging the strong? Now you have weak zombies that aimlessly attack and super-strong ones that attack the weak points of a base.

Aliens taking over with a hive mind? Now you get wandering sentries that focus in on the player once activated.

Even the simplest of stories could go a great distance in helping cover the distance between what the Zombie AI is doing, and what people can expect the Zombie AI to be doing.

My story in my head:

The military was creating a serum for a super soldier capable of enhancing the soldiers attributes and allowing a limited "hive brain" when in close proximity. Unfortunately the virus used to carry the serum mutated. Now the area has been quarantined after one of the zombies set melted down a nuclear power plant (off map) creating radiation corridors impossible for living things to cross.

The infection spread fast within the isolated communities. Most couldn't handle it and became the mindless zombies we see ambling about. Animated through remnants of the hive brain. While the stronger ones became faster, stronger, and some even able to soak the radiation up and imbue them with truly fearsome levels.

You remember being bit at one point, then it all went black, only to find yourself coming too in the middle of the wasteland with a note. You're immune system proved too much for the virus, and you neither became a super soldier or a mindless zombie. Now, the question, can you survive?

 
Sooo...... you see a problem with the AI....

... and instead of offering something to do with advanced algorithms or some pathing advice....

... you make up a story in your head about how we got here in the game?

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Sure, the current AI, you would need some storytime magic for it to make sense.

I would bet, however, that the AI we see now, is not what The Pimps want. It's just the current development step, "implemented a good path finding", next up is, "need to figure out how to make it do zombie-like things". Pushing a stable in this state is the only thing I feel they rushed, but hey, it was xmas .. :)

 
The real problem with the AI, as described by the Devs on various forum threads over the past week is; the zombie AI is a bare-bones system that is in its first iteration. There is much tweeking and adjusting to be done. They just wanted to get the framework in and test it out.

 
Since the AI is currently still in progress, my biggest problem is that I don't know where the journey should go.

Are the zombies supposed to be stupid at the end and run joyfully in every trap or are they so intelligent that you could play chess with them?

Above all the question arises whether the zombies are still predictable at the end or not.

If they are not predictable it will be difficult to defend them because you can hardly make plans for unpredictable behaviour. At best you can counter it with firepower and that would be neither creative nor really efficient. It would be a very unimaginative and stupid way of defending.

 
Sooo...... you see a problem with the AI....
... and instead of offering something to do with advanced algorithms or some pathing advice....

... you make up a story in your head about how we got here in the game?
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Yeah, pretty much. :D

That and, what's the point of offering suggestions if they don't fit the narrative arc?

This thought process really started when I heard Games4Kickz talking through a lot of zombies versus limitations of the engine, so there could only be a few zombies, so how do you keep a challenge?

Combine that with "All the zombies being super smart and attacking a single point of failure." also doesn't make sense (which means we care about story in addition to challenge).

Ultimately though, I do believe that creating the narrative will help focus development. I've seen that work time and again on projects I've personally worked on. Because "I want a challenge" is a very unfocused statement, and can be met in so many different ways. For some people hordes is more of a challenge than single point attacks, for others it's the reverse. Once you have the narrative you can figure out what is the challenge within that narrative.

So, in my narrative, that means you start work on AI such that you have mindless and focused AI's. Once activated the mindless should always follow the shortest route regardless of cost, while focused includes cost. Early game should be mostly populated with mindless hordes that give way to more focused hordes.

I mean, if the story is they're all in a hive mind, it does make sense that they attack the weakest point, and they attack en masse. That'd be the best way to get through. :D

 
No.

The problem is they encourage simple AI pathing exploiting bases instead of cool 360؛ perimeters, where zombies surround you.

That is not fixed by inventing an introduction that explains why zombies prefer to do the conga instead of just behaving like zombies in most known stories/movies

 
If we had the back story of what was creating the "zombies", I think it would refine and sharpen both what the devs want to make happen and what the player can expect.
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Yeah it was said multiple times by the devs that the AI is WIP, but I think op has a point, and not just regarding zombie AI.

People have vastly different ideas about how things should work (chillout sandbox <-> challenging survival), and of course everyone want things to be "fixed" to their liking (including myself).

Maybe if TFP would make it a little more clear what's THEIR vision about the finished game people would be a little more understanding why things work the way they do and wouldn't try to change everything to their personal taste.

 
Maybe if TFP would make it a little more clear what's THEIR vision about the finished game people would be a little more understanding why things work the way they do and wouldn't try to change everything to their personal taste.
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I'm with you on that one. At the moment I really don't know where the journey is going.

 
No. The problem is they encourage simple AI pathing exploiting bases instead of cool 360؛ perimeters, where zombies surround you.

That is not fixed by inventing an introduction that explains why zombies prefer to do the conga instead of just behaving like zombies in most known stories/movies
Click to expand...
I already pointed out the irony that they took the "dumb" zombie AI that acted perfectly zombie-like and made it omniscient so that they could then dumb it back down to be zombie level again. Apparently the the apologists here do not have a sense of humor.

 
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