PC The opponents aren't zombies anymore!
- Thread starter Postmortem
- Start date
Noompsie
New member
Oh OP, you made the fatal error of criticizing the game and now the forum will come for you and eat your brains.
But seriously, I know how you are feeling. I have been there, and lamented my loss lol. But there is a lot to like about A17 as well and I am hoping that it will balance out in the end. (Not so sure since the latest patch though, Intel 5? Really?)
Anyway, you are always able to play A16 instead and who knows, I may see you there. Time will tell.
But seriously, I know how you are feeling. I have been there, and lamented my loss lol. But there is a lot to like about A17 as well and I am hoping that it will balance out in the end. (Not so sure since the latest patch though, Intel 5? Really?)
Anyway, you are always able to play A16 instead and who knows, I may see you there. Time will tell.
I thought the same thing!
So much this!
To the people arguing canon, sure there's multiple franchises with their own rules, and the "infected" argument is a valid way to look at it.
It really comes down to personal prefs, and it seems most of us like 'em slow and dumb, quantity over quality.
I think The Pimps would probably give us that too (or at least the option) if it wouldn't tank game performance to unplayable.
Even Dying Light, which mixes in specials along with a bulk of run of the mill zeds, still has to do a lot of tricks to make it feel like there's a huge horde around you. The bridge is a perfect example where there is just a huge mass of them milling around during the day, but if you observe you'll see that only the group in your immediate area is active. The others just stand there, maybe shuffle around a little, but you can perch on top of a bus and shoot them and they won't take damage, nor activate until you get into range. Now DL doesn't have to do all the voxel world stuff 7D does so while it works perfectly for DL the same probably can't be done for 7D.
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Cadamier
New member
Well, this is only one piece of what can happen with a 'total re-write' of the game as they've noted. As most of us have seen first hand - the AI is much, much better and refined. As Roland noted - this is the raw AI. As we're still in alpha and most importantly as we're still in this first iteration of the new and improved AI there will need to be tweaks!!! Just as the skills, etc just got a tweak so too will the AI.
Now - how about this for thought... In PVP mode you can switch back to this RAW AI on top of your PVP'ing lol
Now - how about this for thought... In PVP mode you can switch back to this RAW AI on top of your PVP'ing lol
*Just filling out the chronology of the Romero zombie verse*
"Night of the Living dead" was the initial introduction, to the zombies starting to use tools in the Romero's Zombie universe. Short scene that most forget about is the little girl, that died in the basement, then came back and killed her dad with the brick towel.
Bub in "Day of the Dead", was the first zombie in the Romero movies, to use a gun, among other things.
Frotus
New member
Yah, it needs work and the bandits will need work too since everyone will just jump back and forth between two platforms and shoot at them as the run back and forth between two ladders, for example.
In fact, zombies breaking through concrete and steel is probably a worse offense then them having some ability to find a short path to a destination that is more efficient. Not sure how that can ever be fixed without making those items rare/expensive and unrealistic to obtain.
Really as someone else said, we just need a ton of zombies everywhere.
Dimpy
New member
I've actually been working on something like this in my free time. I wanted to see what 7dtd would feel like if the game was built around making as many zombies as possible. Still working on the rendering framework, but here are the basic design principles I think would do the trick:
1. Making the zombies ant-like, where each one does a only very basic AI calculation every few seconds, but they interact in some way that allows the horde as a whole to act intelligently.
2. Aggressively getting rid of unneeded AI calculations. For example zombies in the center of a crowd don't actually need to think in any way, they just need to go the same direction everyone else is going.
3. Using modified fluid mechanics algorithms to simulate horde behavior at long distance so you can't get rid of a horde(or even slow it down) by making them despawn.
4. Mega potato graphics.
Bhaaltazar
New member
I would disagree with the OP. I believe zombie AI got improved in regards to dungeons, really cool sleepers and all that hiding behind the corners and fake ceilings etc... Thumbs up to TFP.
But in regards to horde nights they are like super dumb - since you can exploit their behavior. No need for building base and defending it I just prefer to lead them to the place of my choosing slow them down with some spikes and wires and just dispose of them with arrows and melee ( molotovs are nice as well ). Feral irradiated not much of a problem just takes a little longer. On horde nights "dumb zombies from A16" worked much better IMO, since they just rushed in and just started smacking at the building trying to collapse it.
And for OP give a game a try and learn the new game mechanics - i got comfortable with a game at the very start with b195 when it was quite brutal encountering 3 irradiated ferrals in the back room of Pop'n'Pills for example, but after you get accustomed to their AI you can exploit that for your benefit.
But in regards to horde nights they are like super dumb - since you can exploit their behavior. No need for building base and defending it I just prefer to lead them to the place of my choosing slow them down with some spikes and wires and just dispose of them with arrows and melee ( molotovs are nice as well ). Feral irradiated not much of a problem just takes a little longer. On horde nights "dumb zombies from A16" worked much better IMO, since they just rushed in and just started smacking at the building trying to collapse it.
And for OP give a game a try and learn the new game mechanics - i got comfortable with a game at the very start with b195 when it was quite brutal encountering 3 irradiated ferrals in the back room of Pop'n'Pills for example, but after you get accustomed to their AI you can exploit that for your benefit.
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LuckyStar
New member
The biggest thing is going to be lighting.
In A15 and A16 I did something like this with UMAs [which take up even more resources].
I removed torches from every POI and all large POIS were gone as well.
Even things like street signs and clutter that was nice but didn't need to be there I got rid of.
Grass went as well. There was just a little tuft here and there kinda thing.
Even replaced Spikes and Barbed wire with Cube Blocks that did the same thing but rendered with less resources.
It worked!
It was awesome!!!!
I didn't care one bit how it looked [cuz it looked bad]! It was fun!
So... keep at it. It's worth it.
I've always maintained that ANY zombie game should have a Romero version.
It's the honourable thing to do and it's very much appreciated by players.
Ironicdetachmentguy@gmail
New member
I always remember in one of my all time favorite RPG settings: Lionheart , that the zombies became more intelligent based on how many brains they had eaten in their undead unlifetime.
Personally, I would like some types of zombies having different abilities. Seems like businessman zombie might be a good candidate for good pathing, and the hoodie zombie should have some of the parkour traits (making fort building a different challenge).
Just some thoughts...
Personally, I would like some types of zombies having different abilities. Seems like businessman zombie might be a good candidate for good pathing, and the hoodie zombie should have some of the parkour traits (making fort building a different challenge).
Just some thoughts...
Arkheias
New member
Overall, I think the new zombie AI is too smart. But another issue is that it seems too consistent.
In my last game, I played with zombies set to jog at all times, with only ferals running. This just felt the most zombie-like to me. To balance this out, I set the bloodmoon to 64 zombies. When the blood moon came, the zombies all bunched up and I ended up just circling them, occasionally poking one vigorously with a sledgehammer.
This might seem like a legitimate weakness of slow zombies, and the strategy would probably not work as well against sprinting zombies, but it trivialized the hordes more than I feel it should have, and it looked bad.
One solution that I thought of, that might also allow for more zombies to be present in any given horde, would be to limit how many of them can actively track the player at once, maybe 80-90%. The other zombies near the player would just continue to walk/sprint in a straight line until they hit an obstacle, they hit a point where their previous path would have had them turn, or they hit the player.
At this point they could steal priority from one of the zombies that was actively tracking the player (maybe one that was among the furthest away), make an awareness check against the player, and start pathfinding to the player again if they see them. This could help to split them up, and reduce the player's ability to simply circle the horde.
It could also potentially serve as a way to naturally dissolve non-bloodmoon hordes if the player can find a way to hide from them for a while.
In my last game, I played with zombies set to jog at all times, with only ferals running. This just felt the most zombie-like to me. To balance this out, I set the bloodmoon to 64 zombies. When the blood moon came, the zombies all bunched up and I ended up just circling them, occasionally poking one vigorously with a sledgehammer.
This might seem like a legitimate weakness of slow zombies, and the strategy would probably not work as well against sprinting zombies, but it trivialized the hordes more than I feel it should have, and it looked bad.
One solution that I thought of, that might also allow for more zombies to be present in any given horde, would be to limit how many of them can actively track the player at once, maybe 80-90%. The other zombies near the player would just continue to walk/sprint in a straight line until they hit an obstacle, they hit a point where their previous path would have had them turn, or they hit the player.
At this point they could steal priority from one of the zombies that was actively tracking the player (maybe one that was among the furthest away), make an awareness check against the player, and start pathfinding to the player again if they see them. This could help to split them up, and reduce the player's ability to simply circle the horde.
It could also potentially serve as a way to naturally dissolve non-bloodmoon hordes if the player can find a way to hide from them for a while.
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mr.devolver
New member
You complain about zombies not being dumb anymore... Meanwhile I tried to shoot a pig using AK-47 while crouching on the top of the construction that is inside the base made of car wrecks, I've hit the pig with bonus damage for sneaking and it still didn't die, it quickly turned around and ran towards the base and then it disappeared for a while. I knew it will have to go through the only possible way in to get to me, so I immediately aimed at the entrance expecting to see the little piggy to enter the base soon, but at that point it somehow already found a way all the way up to me, it sneaked up on me from behind and it bit my ass!
Player 0, little piggy 1
Player 0, little piggy 1
hugo stiglitz
New member
Well this is all i have to say about spawning, doesnt seem to really matter how stupid they are just spawn in more and add a bear or 2 they will get you!
mr.devolver
New member
Originally the bear just wanted to refuel, but then it got distracted by all those folks inside, so it went in to check out what's going on.
