PC The Offtopic, A17 thread.

How do you KNOW A17 has not been released to some people? It's your guess you are calling a fact.
Click to expand...
Clearly the testers have it, but that's not what we're talking about. I have inferred that the release (by which I mean the general Steam release) hasn't happened yet from the available evidence - that I can look at Steam and see that it hasn't been.

(As an aside, this is also refuting a different Internet talking point - that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Absence of evidence is in fact evidence of absence. The strength of that evidence corresponds to the likelihood that the evidence would exist if the thing existed. Looking out of my window and not seeing an elephant isn't very compelling evidence that there are no elephants in England because I can only see a small part of England from my window so there are lots of ways that an elephant could be there without me seeing it. Looking in my fridge and not seeing an elephant there, on the other hand, is pretty compelling evidence that there are no elephants in my fridge because even a baby elephant would be visible if it were in there.)

Now you could digress into epistemology and solipsism and start claiming that we can never know anything for certain, but if you do that then I'll just declare that I don't know that you exist and therefore I can't trust anything that claims to have been written by you!

Still, at least debating whether or not we can know whether or not A17 has already been released (or even whether or not we can know whether or not A17 exists at all) makes a change from trying to guess when it will be released.

Scientifically proven facts sometimes take decades of hard work and observation, they are the crowning achievements of mankind.
The only thing simple about "Simple facts" are the people who believe them.
Click to expand...
There are huge numbers of simple facts that are believed - quite rationally - by even the most erudite and sophisticated of people based solely on personal observation and inference. For example, I believe the simple fact that the bottle of water on my desk that I'm looking at is the same one that I put there a few minutes ago. No-one has provided me scientific proof that it's the same bottle, but I believe it is anyway based on the fact that it's been in my field of vision for the whole time.

You don't have to be simple to believe a simple fact without scientific proof.

 
Guys, please stop trying to correct people with you're own inaccuracies. If you're interested in getting yourself straight on the business of science, I highly recommend the philosopher of science, Elliott Sober. he covers a wide range of topics and can give you a basic overview as well as a deep dive into contemporary philosophical problems in science, if you're up to it. Cheers

 
Stop. It's "Don't confuse SELECTION with mutation. SPECIATION is nested in selection and genetic drift.
Click to expand...
Without Speciation (not in a watered down definition) there is no evolution. Mutations (genetic drift) don't prove evolution in creating new species.

Believe what you want.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Without Speciation (not in a watered down definition) there is no evolution. Mutations (genetic drift) don't prove evolution in creating new species.
Click to expand...
Please stop. This is a forum for a video game and you are going on and on and on and on about evolution. People have asked you to stop and you continue. Are you trolling? Are you trying to invoke anger and see how far it can go?

I am asking you to please stop. Go to a forum on evolution and talk about it there.

 
You can't "prove" anything in science, you can only disprove other possibilities. What's so hard about this.
Click to expand...
This is Karl Popper’s view, that science is strictly prohibitive; a hypothesis can be falsified given a genuine counter-instance, but it is exceedingly rare for a hypothesis to be logically verified in virtue of an inference (Modus Ponens). This is because Modus Ponens involves stating that an observation deductively entails some hypothesis and yet observations very rarely entail the hypotheses that scientists test. Observations are typically deductively compatible with alternative hypotheses as well.

But scientific realists (a metaphysical view, as oppose to strict empiricists(most scientists are realists these days btw) commit to their empirically well-grounded and rigorously tested theories as true (e.g. General and Special Relativity, Modern Synthesis (pertaining to evolution) etc.

- - - Updated - - -

Without Speciation (not in a watered down definition) there is no evolution. Mutations (genetic drift) don't prove evolution in creating new species.
Believe what you want.
Click to expand...
You're writing is obscure and confusing. And mutation is not equivalent to genetic drift.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wow this sounds like an interesting topic! I'll bet you'd get a lot more participation if you were to start a thread in Off-Topic Discussion!

 
He came on TFP's forums and accused them of lying about why A17 is not out yet. He then tried to play it off as him just stating his "opinion". That's not how opinions work.
Click to expand...
Unless he deleted the posts in which he did that... if he didn't, then oh homie, no... It looks like you're just putting words into the mouth of someone who is thinking about what might also be mitigating the release of A17-E. Now, i dont agree with him, but it is opinion on one of the causes of causing the release of A17 to take longer.

it's too long for a single alpha, my opinion is that TFP is working in parallel on a future game
Click to expand...
Thats the quote, the only comment of his i see where he's stating an opinion. Not fact, not accusing, attacking, slandering, spitting, dancing or tickling anything.

Gotta stop putting words into peoples mouths.

Also...

o·pin·ion

/əˈpinyən/Submit

noun

a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

basically, his post was an opinion.

 
Unless he deleted the posts in which he did that... if he didn't, then oh homie, no... It looks like you're just putting words into the mouth of someone who is thinking about what might also be mitigating the release of A17-E. Now, i dont agree with him, but it is opinion on one of the causes of causing the release of A17 to take longer.


Thats the quote, the only comment of his i see where he's stating an opinion. Not fact, not accusing, attacking, slandering, spitting, dancing or tickling anything.

Gotta stop putting words into peoples mouths.

Also...

o·pin·ion

/əˈpinyən/Submit

noun

a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

basically, his post was an opinion.
Click to expand...
No, it wasn't. There is no judgement involved on whether they "are working in parallel on a future game." It is objectively true or objectively false.

Here is also from Merriam-Webster entry on opinion. It is near the bottom on how to choose a synonym. I highlighted the pertinent section in red. "OPINION, VIEW, BELIEF, CONVICTION, PERSUASION, SENTIMENT mean a judgment one holds as true. OPINION implies a conclusion thought out yet open to dispute." They either are or are not working on a future game. It is not "open to dispute." It is either true or false.

 
No, it wasn't. There is no judgement involved on whether they "are working in parallel on a future game." It is objectively true or objectively false.
Here is also from Merriam-Webster entry on opinion. It is near the bottom on how to choose a synonym. I highlighted the pertinent section in red. "OPINION, VIEW, BELIEF, CONVICTION, PERSUASION, SENTIMENT mean a judgment one holds as true. OPINION implies a conclusion thought out yet open to dispute." They either are or are not working on a future game. It is not "open to dispute." It is either true or false.
Click to expand...
Its his opinion that they are working on another game, but TFP just wont admit it yet. If thats the case then his opinion is correct. There is no fact to disprove him if they are working on an unnannounced project. So u cant prove that they arent doing so.

Disclaimer, I dont with him agree but I understand his opinion reasoning

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Its his opinion that they are, but TFP just wont admit it yet. If thats the case then his opinion is correct. There is no fact to disprove him, if they are working on an unnannounced project. Which u cant prove that they arent
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter if I can prove it or not. still has nothing to do with opinion. If they are or aren't isn't disputable. Disputable: "giving good reason for being doubted, questioned, or challenged" Things that are disputable are along the lines of "tea is better warm" ,"this soap smells nice." There are two sides to those. Some people will agree and some will not. Therefore opinion would be appropriate. You don't have an opinion about something that is either objectively true or objectively false. Opinion plays no part in these situations.

Thinking opinion has anything to do with a statement like this is one of the biggest issues today. People think their opinions trump facts when in reality they have nothing to do with each other.

 
It doesn't matter if I can prove it or not. still has nothing to do with opinion. If they are or aren't isn't disputable. Disputable: "giving good reason for being doubted, questioned, or challenged" Things that are disputable are along the lines of "tea is better warm" ,"this soap smells nice." There are two sides to those. Some people will agree and some will not. Therefore opinion would be appropriate. You don't have an opinion about something that is either objectively true or objectively false. Opinion plays no part in these situations.
Thinking opinion has anything to do with a statement like this is one of the biggest issues today. People think their opinions trump facts when in reality they have nothing to do with each other.
Click to expand...
So what is it called if he thinks they are working on an announced game and there is no proof that they are or arent

 
So what is it called if he thinks they are working on an announced game and there is no proof that they are or arent
Click to expand...
conjecture noun

con·​jec·​ture | \kən-ˈjek-chər \

Definition of conjecture (Entry 1 of 2)

1 a : inference formed without proof or sufficient evidence

b : a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork

e.g. The criminal's motive remains a matter of conjecture.

c : a proposition (as in mathematics) before it has been proved or disproved

Guess would be another word. I was going to go with "delusion" but he could be right. Lol

 
conjecture nouncon·​jec·​ture | \kən-ˈjek-chər \

Definition of conjecture (Entry 1 of 2)

1 a : inference formed without proof or sufficient evidence

b : a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork

e.g. The criminal's motive remains a matter of conjecture.

c : a proposition (as in mathematics) before it has been proved or disproved

Guess would be another word. I was going to go with "delusion" but he could be right. Lol
Click to expand...
opinion noun

opin·​ion | \ə-ˈpin-yən \

Definition of opinion

1a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

We asked them for their opinions about the new stadium.

b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM

I have no great opinion of his work.

2a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

a person of rigid opinions

b : a generally held view

news programs that shape public opinion

3a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert

My doctor says that I need an operation, but I'm going to get a second opinion.

b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

The article discusses the recent Supreme Court opinion.

Also from merriam-webster

Him thinking that TFP is making a second game is an opinion, could be conjecture... delusion is just you being angry for no reason. Hell, it could even be a hypothesis.

Dont take so much offense that you need to blow up on a guy with a thought.

 
opinion nounopin·​ion | \ə-ˈpin-yən \

Definition of opinion

1a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

We asked them for their opinions about the new stadium.

b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM

I have no great opinion of his work.

2a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

a person of rigid opinions

b : a generally held view

news programs that shape public opinion

3a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert

My doctor says that I need an operation, but I'm going to get a second opinion.

b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

The article discusses the recent Supreme Court opinion.

Also from merriam-webster

Him thinking that TFP is making a second game is an opinion, could be conjecture... delusion is just you being angry for no reason. Hell, it could even be a hypothesis.

Dont take so much offense that you need to blow up on a guy with a thought.
Click to expand...
Even according to all the definitions you posted, opinion still doesn't work in this context. But, yes, you are correct. It could be conjecture, guess, or hypothesis. Just not opinion. That's not the type of information opinion has any relevance too.

And who said I'm mad? It's a stupid argument on the internet about a) a game, and now b) the meaning of a word. It's a way to pass time. Who would get actually angry at that?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Even according to all the definitions you posted, opinion still doesn't work in this context. But, yes, you are correct. It could be conjecture, guess, or hypothesis. Just not opinion. That's not the type of information opinion has any relevance too.
And who said I'm mad? It's a stupid argument on the internet about a) a game, and now b) the meaning of a word. It's a way to pass time. Who would get actually angry at that?
Click to expand...
oh no, it fits in the context of what he said, and this isnt an argument, its a debate. life or death, really... maybe.. just calm down (dont you love how telling someone to calm down almost always does the exact opposite?)

 
oh no, it fits in the context of what he said, and this isnt an argument, its a debate. life or death, really... maybe.. just calm down (dont you love how telling someone to calm down almost always does the exact opposite?)
Click to expand...
No, it really doesn't. Opinion is only a valid reference when the thing being talked about is subjective. Whether TFP is, or is not, working on a future game is not subjective. They either ARE or they ARE NOT. If something is either a) objectively true or b) objectively false then choosing one and saying it is your opinion is nonsensical. I'm sorry you don't understand it but that's what the word means.

He may even be correct that they are. We have no way to know unless they tell us. But, if they are, it isn't his opinion that is true it is his guess that turned out to be true.

And, no reason to tell me to calm down. I'm not the one that seems upset about all this. I'm on a game forum passing time. If it started to upset me I would just move to something else that didn't. Of course I'm not 12 so the odds of anything on here upsetting me are pretty low.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top