The missed post from JaWoodle

[Soulmonster]

it's not illegal

As far as I am aware, under most jurisdictions it would be illegal to continue sharing proprietary information to the public when told not to by the owners of that information. Going back to my Rolling Stones example, it would not be illegal to receive the unreleased music, it would not be illegal to listen to it, but it would be illegal to make it publicly available to others. If JaWoodle can successfully argue he posted the video in good faith, then he would likely not risk any legal repercussions for that first posting (after all, TFP sent him the code). But as soon as he is made aware by TFP that the video contains proprietary information that he is not allowed to share, and is being asked to take down or edit the video, and he refuses, then he is doing something that is illegal in most jurisdictions, presumably also according to Australian Law.

Post automatically merged: Today at 7:44 AM

I would probably remove it too. But it's easy for us to talk about someones source of income. Why is it so hard to demand something from multi million dollar company, if they offered him anything except "please remove" i bet he would do that.

If I was TFP I would probably have offered to cover his losses, if he could prove that he has spent more money on creating the video than the revenues he had received by the time it was taken down. Maybe they did. But even if they didn't, they are in the right to demand that he stops distributing proprietary code, no matter if they tell him politely, threaten litigation, or sugar it with a small compensation. His unwillingness to comply is his own decision, and that could lead to legal action and it would certainly burn bridges with TFP. But hey, at least many of his followers seem to praise his actions. Sticking it to the man!

 

[HammerDano]

Again, he used strong clear wording in his title and just so happened not to say "sue" or "lawsuit" in his video. All he said is he got a legal demand requiring the content to be removed. But he might've forgotten to use those strong words in his video...who knows.

Now, I'm in the middle of avoiding some bull■■■■ work that I don't want to do, so I'm ■■■■ed and the fangs are out.

Number 1: You....are too biased to listen to on this subject.

Number 2: Based on how emotionally manipulative he was in his video ("...on my birthday, ...i would normally make a joke here but...", etc) my gut is telling me that he might not be the most trustworthy person or at best, he is naive.

NOW...there is one discrepancy regarding the posting of the Streamer Weekend requirements. The first message which contained the words "must play vanilla" and "This is to showcase V3.0." was written as an edit of a year old post...so it has a 2025 date on it. But the two subsequent posts, that were in regard to other aspects of Streamer Weekend, were posted 25 hours before the unintended version of the game was available for download.

Also, it was known well before streamer weekend that bandits were not to be included in 3.0. If someone has access to the 3.0 Twitch dev stream, which I think I remember jawoodle being a chatter in, the dev(s) also reiterated on the stream that bandits would not be in 3.0...I'm pretty sure of this but I cannot say for certain without the footage.

So if the requirements were posted 25 hours before the download link was available then he, as a member of the creator program, had a responsibility to read them. “I didn’t see it” is very different from “they never told me.”

Finally, and this is in reference to his possible naivety, why would he think it would be ok to display something that would not function under normal gameplay conditions, something that was said more than once would not be in 3.0, something that was never ADVERTISED to be in 3.0, something that clearly does not agree with the requirement "This is to showcase V3.0"? How long has he been doing this? This content creation? How old is he? Huh?

Good grief

calm down and breath bud.

 

[BlackMistK]

It's disgusting how the community is handling this situation, and the worst part is that it's not surprising.

TFP made a simple mistake. That doesn't mean the youtuber can suddenly do whatever the hell he wants with 100% freedom. He knew exactly what he was doing. TFP asked him to remedy the problem. He refused to be cool and edit/remove some content that he knew wasn't intentional to be shown. If he didn't know beforehand then he certainly would have after they asked him to remove it.


For those mentioning his loss of money: How much do you think he's making from all the videos revolving around this current drama? Nah let's just ignore that. I hope it's enough to cover the bridge that he decided to burn for no reason.

Anyone with a brain will look at the reviews and know immediately that it's purely performative nonsense.

Players with hundreds if not thousands of hours posting a bad review... and they all involve the same topic. A youtuber who made a scummy decision and is facing basic legal consequences for it. People acting like TFP are evil creatures of the night for doing this are out of their minds, though a lot of it is likely artificial. It's another excuse to jump on a hate/drama train for a cheap game you've spent hundreds of hours playing. Fakest bunch of people i've ever seen in any community. You don't stand for any real logic or principles. You have no spine and want to perform like jesters in the most obvious way.

Id bet all my teeth that every single one of them will jump on the next update like a feral beast. No one is being fooled by this ridiculous crap.

simple mistake? bro they caused Jawoodle to get a copyright STRIKE which a channel can only have 3 of in its lifetime, then they want to take him to court for their mistake.

Jawoodle honored the embargo, and based on the support of some other 7 days to die content creators they even support Jawoodle or at the least believe that the fun pimps are in the wrong.

 

[Mister Forgash]

I'm no lawyer, but I remember when 3.0 was coming and the video was released. Anyone that was paying attention to the forums was aware bandits and chicken coop were confirmed not to be in the patch. When I saw them as clickbait in the thumbnail for the video I immediately thought it was distasteful and opted to watch someone else's coverage.

After the controversy I don't know why he wouldn't just edit or remove video. 'but he'd lose money' some cry.. I don't know about everyone, but I've had jobs that ended up where mistakes were made and owners had to eat a loss- and it was understood as fine because it kept us in high standing with the people we worked for. We stayed busy until he was ready to retire. Knowing a large part of his videos are 7d2d it would seem wise to keep in good standing with the ones giving him pre-public access. At least that's how I would look at it.

He could have worked with the people that butter his bread. He chose not to. I don't know about the legal ramifications, but I don't know how anyone would think that's a good idea.

 

[Mamzir]

This was after he refused to edit or take down the video as he posted a video shortly after the reveal video saying as much.

His interpretation of the events are vague, potentially legally obliged, so I am not sure what the council sent and what "further action" would entail. From one perspective it sounds like TFP asked for the content to be modified or removed and he refused so they sent a formal letter.

Either way I don't imagine it would be smart of TFP or Behavior Interactive to push beyond the copyright strike so assuming all they have done to this point is copyright strike the videos and remove him from the program then I think a line hasn't been crossed yet.

Would I have taken the video down? No. But so far it is still within the realm of understanding for me. What I dislike is how interpretations present woodle as innocent and that he shouldn't have taken the video down. Actions have repercussions and I would have removed him from the program 100% if he didn't comply with the requests to remove or edit the content out. So he still shoulders some of the blame. Any content creator shoulders the cost of having to edit or remove content and the amount of money lost will now be much greater than if he simply edited or removed it.

Lastly, it's stupid to think he had no idea the bandits were not supposed to be shown. He likely thought it was a bug and showed it off. He has made a career out of finding loopholes in the game with various blocks and enjoys digging in the code and game files. I don't think that is a problem in itself, unless the developers ask for it to be removed.

Again, I am not suggesting TFP haven't over reacted on this, but likewise people are turning the guy into some white knight devoid of any responsibility which isn't the case either.

He didn't refuse to edit or take down the video TFP refused to compensate him fairly for doing so. It was TFP's fault, they sent him the wrong build. Not Ja's fault they sent him the wrong build. He was expected to make content with what was sent to him, they just didn't like that they messed up and it was public. All they had to do was discuss compensation and reach an agreement. Instead they decided to send in DMCA requests when he refused without being FAIRLY compensated. To even try to twist the above events/actions is disengenuos.

 

[Mamzir]

TFP made a simple mistake. That doesn't mean the youtuber can suddenly do whatever the hell he wants with 100% freedom. He knew exactly what he was doing. TFP asked him to remedy the problem. He refused to be cool and edit/remove some content that he knew wasn't intentional to be shown. If he didn't know beforehand then he certainly would have after they asked him to remove it.

God how disengenuos do you have to be. This has been a tried a true process. They send new build for the EXPRESS purpose of making content, he then uses the sent build to play and make new videos, he then uploads them with zero oversight from TFP because they have ZERO editorial rights.

JaWoodle never refused to edit/remove the videos out right. He said he would do so if they compensate him for the time/revenue lost from the edits. TFP refused to work with JaWoodle, not the other way around. JaWoodle just did what he has done for years everytime he has been given early access, which is making content with the new build. It's not his fault TFP made the mistake, and it's certainly not his responsibility to shoulder the cost/loss revenue for their mistake. TFP are truly acting in bad faith.

 

[Soulmonster]

He didn't refuse to edit or take down the video TFP refused to compensate him fairly for doing so.

I am sure if JaWoodle said, "But I spend $1,000 editing the video which I am now forced to take down because of your mistake, and I have only had $500 in revenues!" then TFP would cover that balance. The case here, I'm afraid, seems to be that people think JaWoodle should be compensated for future loss of revenues from a video that contained proprietary information That's not how the world works, that's not how anything works. If I had to take down a video containing unreleased music by Rolling Stones, I couldn't expect to be compensated for the loss of future revenues!

To me, it seems like JaWoodle dawdled and procrastinating or even straight out refused to comply with their request of quickly making sure the proprietary information was not shared any more, maybe even asking for greed money, and that is sure to escalate things to legal proceedings. It's pretty naive by him. You never want to take it to a point where lawyers get involved. Never.

 

[Mamzir]

Players with hundreds if not thousands of hours posting a bad review... and they all involve the same topic. A youtuber who made a scummy decision and is facing basic legal consequences for it. People acting like TFP are evil creatures of the night for doing this are out of their minds, though a lot of it is likely artificial. It's another excuse to jump on a hate/drama train for a cheap game you've spent hundreds of hours playing. Fakest bunch of people i've ever seen in any community. You don't stand for any real logic or principles. You have no spine and want to perform like jesters in the most obvious way.

TFP's aren't evil, that are acting in bad faith. Also calling what JaWoodle did scummy in also in bad faith. He did exactly what he was supposed if he got the right build, he said as much, and I explained that above. It's not his fault that TFP made a mistake. Calling people fake because they see a corporation/business bullying a content creator and acting in bad faith is a bold choice. You must be drinking the TFP cool-aid if you can't see the issue here.

 

[Mamzir]

I am sure if JaWoodle said, "But I spend $1,000 editing the video which I am now forced to take down because of your mistake, and I have only had $500 in revenues!" then TFP would cover that balance. The case here, I'm afraid, seems to be that people think JaWoodle should be compensated for future loss of revenues from a video that contained proprietary information That's not how the world works, that's not how anything works. If I had to take down a video containing unreleased music by Rolling Stones, I couldn't expect to be compensated for the loss of future revenues!

To me, it seems like JaWoodle dawdled and procrastinating or even straight out refused to comply with their request of quickly making sure the proprietary information was not shared any more, maybe even asking for greed money, and that is sure to escalate things to legal proceedings. It's pretty naive by him. You never want to take it to a point where lawyers get involved. Never.

Onve again someone being disengenuos. He was sent the build for express purpose making content, I highly doubt you were sent unreleased music for the purpose of making a video/upload. This is situation is a "labor trade" they get "free marketing" while he gets the revenue from the video. If it was proprietary and "secret", there is no world where they should have sent it to him. It's their mistake.

As for the compensation, I'm pretty sure he stated he has paid editors. So he does have costs that are associated with each upload. The fact is TFP didn't want to pay a dime to fairly compensate him and decided to DMCA in bad faith when JaWoodle tried to reach a fair agreement.

 

[Satosik]

he is doing something that is illegal in most jurisdictions

I believe we will find if it was legal very soon - looking how quickly it's moving. I don't think a guy with a legal advice would be that stubborn being wrong there.

But even if they didn't, they are in the right to demand that he stops distributing proprietary code, no matter if they tell him politely, threaten litigation, or sugar it with a small compensation.

He didn't share any code. We have to be very specific there. That would be very illegal.

If I was TFP I would probably have offered to cover his losses

This is it. I think many people, myself included, expected them to finally act in our favor, especially after some devs spoke so openly about it when it happened. That's why, apart from a portion of this forum and a few paid or unpaid die-hard supporters, there's so much negativity toward them.

 

[Kyoji]

He did no such thing. He posted a comment on the original video saying that the features he showed were not coming in 3.0. This is the first video he posted saying what happened and why he didn't edit or take down the original video. (Edit: "this is the first video" refers to the video I linked.)

I am not able to verify it at the moment but I recall it was brought up before this newer video. Whether it was a comment or video that isnt the point but whether he was asked to edit and remove the video.

JaWoodle was talking informally with TFP about how he thought he shouldn't be responsible for their mistake, and they (or Behaviour) responded by getting their lawyers to officially threaten him with legal action. Calling that a "formal letter" sounds like doublespeak to me.

Initially, but again TFP asked for the content to be removed and he refused so naturally the next step would be an official removal process. I don't think it was a good idea to go so far but that is my understanding of the events.

He did not do that, and I know because I watched the original video (multiple times) when it was still available.

What he did was mess around with spawning entities using F6. (The video shows him doing this.)

I watched the video as well. A video about bandits is indeed an eye catcher. I saw how they bugged around behind cover and how excited he was for them. If I recall correctly he said something to the effect of "I'm not sure why bandits are here but they are here so we will check them out". If anyone has a more direct quote feel free to post it.

At worst, he knew bandits weren't going to be in 3.0, but still showed off what was in the game files as they were given to him as a sort of exploration about what bandits would eventually become. And he was enthusiastic about it. As was everyone who was concerned that TFP were slacking on bandits - this showed everyone that TFP were making real progress.

I agree that I don't think he had malicious intentions or that he thought this would be such a big issue.

People do this all the time. I can't tell you how many times I've seen YouTube videos showing ripped WIP assets in some game's files and making an educated guess about how they will be implemented into the game. (There are hundreds about what will be in Subnautica 2.)

Nobody considers this a breach of an NDA, or some kind of effort to "leak" content. (And from what I could tell, the streamer weekend NDA was mostly about not posting videos before the embargo.)

I don't think the issue was whether there was negative intent. This isn't a case where mens rea is needed. The issue is that when asked to remove the content he didn't. I am not arguing from a legal standpoint but a moral one. I believe he should have edited the video when asked.

(On that note - one of the major "leaks" that TFP are attacking JaWoodle for, are the chicken coops. Well, they're now released and they look exactly like they did in the build JaWoodle received. So what was the effing point in legally attacking him about this feature?)

No idea.

It's not about JaWoodle being a "white knight." It's not about the notion that he is devoid of any responsibility. It's about the plain fact that he should be devoid of responsibility for actions which are entirely not his fault.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm only responding to your posts because they seem to be typical of JaWoodle's critics. I don't want to single you out personally. We disagree but you have made good points.

I think a large portion of the negativity woodle is getting stems from the rant posts made by his fans. It irritates people like me who believe the situation is more nuanced than TFP bad streamer guy good. I like woodle and defended him in another thread about the same issue. But when someone you are reliant on for monetary support or someone you respect asks a favor to remove something due to an error he should have done so. The loss of money is an excuse as content creators have to edit or remove videos all the time due to copyright strikes with music or content. Is it unfortunate? Sure. But is it worse than if he just capitulated? I think so.

 

[meganoth]

If someone finds a wallet on the street and gives it back to the owner he usually can expect 10% of the value as finders reward.

If a company sends money to a partner company in error the partner company would not expect a reward though and send it back without deducting anything.

If a company sends a machine to a partner company in error the partner company would probably expect the other to compensate for the postal fees to send it back

If a company sends a machine to a partner company in error and the partner company already used and made money with that machine it would probably not expect the other to compensate for the postal fees but send it back using part of the money they made using the machine. Unless repackaging the machine was such a big deal that they would loose money overall.

This is not a perfectly clear case, though Jawoodle surely got more additional money out of it in the first few days when he was the only one showing bandits than what he could expect afterwards.
Comparing the situation with one where the mistake never happened I would expect that Jawoodle could have easily taken down that video when asked and still would come out with a big plus on his account.

I see two parties who both didn't want to compromise and now this is the result.