The LBD theyre introducing isnt what I wanted or had in mind.

[theFlu]

Simply, player preferences. I'm not saying one is better than the other.

Then, why were you phrasing one as MLP-puppies-and-rainbows-FWEEDOM! and the other as Grim-Dark-black-lung-coal-mines-with-no-food-and-water-anywhere-to-be-had ...?

And, for the slow among us, that is not a literal description of what Roland said earlier, just an unfair exaggeration of the way the options were presented as. Hyperbolic, to make the difference obvious. If someone needs more justification, contact your nearest English department.

(I may have stopped taking this seriously even before I started posting, but I think we've reached a new low for even my insanity. I could choose not to click Post. But I didn't.)

 

[Jost Amman]

Then, why were you phrasing one as MLP-puppies-and-rainbows-FWEEDOM! and the other as Grim-Dark-black-lung-coal-mines-with-no-food-and-water-anywhere-to-be-had ...?

And, for the slow among us, that is not a literal description of what Roland said earlier, just an unfair exaggeration of the way the options were presented as. Hyperbolic, to make the difference obvious. If someone needs more justification, contact your nearest English department.

(I may have stopped taking this seriously even before I started posting, but I think we've reached a new low for even my insanity. I could choose not to click Post. But I didn't.)

@Roland : you should change your nickname into Vaccine!

 

[Jost Amman]

You're not asking me, but you were wondering about our playstyle differences earlier, so I'll add this: I posted about my d7/d14 horde base at 2.0 here:

Post in thread 'Did I set it up wrong?'

Jul 16, 2025

I haven't tried it in a long time (A20 or A21), but in a 2 player game with xp set to 300%, the first horde night destroyed our base. We had every zombies except the demolitioners and a lot of them.

Hmm; there's been some motion in the systems over the years, I don't pretend to remember how it all went down. Never have I ever felt the need to slow down on the levels to manipulate the game. I do play solo, multiplayer scales faster.

Here's me admiring the magnificence of my d14 horde base. Well, d7 base, with a couple additional pieces of conc; it did just fine.


Note...

• theFlu

My stash was mainly on the next wall behind that thing for the first little while; took over the office right inside the POI later for stations / organized storage. And moved out before it was organized ..

This is my current Desert base:

Spoiler

As you can see, I used A LOT of cobblestone to build both the upper base and the underground part.
There are the living quarters with the crafting/cooking stations and I also added an underground farm with a dew collector (fully modded).

I don't think I could have gotten all that cobblestone without mining honestly. I also like to first lay out the blocks as frames, upgrade them to wood and then to cobblestone. That way I can get much more experience while building.

 

[theFlu]

This is my current Desert base:

That's a cute lil Starter Cube, I've built worse I can't say I agree with that being a LOT of cobblestone, it's a 5x5 with extra steps (literally and figuratively ). But whether that's a lot or not, you have a bigger, cost free base surrounding your main installment. Clearing that Motel doesn't require a moment of mining, and turning it into a horde base might take destroying a few blocks. Faster, easier, you get more safe space to use.

My point wasn't "you can't mine", it was "you don't have to"

 

[Roland]

Then, why were you phrasing one as MLP-puppies-and-rainbows-FWEEDOM! and the other as Grim-Dark-black-lung-coal-mines-with-no-food-and-water-anywhere-to-be-had ...?

And, for the slow among us, that is not a literal description of what Roland said earlier, just an unfair exaggeration of the way the options were presented as. Hyperbolic, to make the difference obvious. If someone needs more justification, contact your nearest English department.

(I may have stopped taking this seriously even before I started posting, but I think we've reached a new low for even my insanity. I could choose not to click Post. But I didn't.)

Did I? Are you sure you weren’t reading that into what I posted? I’m sure you see this period of time as your last best chance to get LBD back in the game so with the stakes so high perhaps your sensitivity is too. I wish you and all others who want LBD back the best of luck in pushing your point of view to the devs.

Water, storms, and biome progression is better now than it was and who knows maybe general player progression will be too if TFP hears all sides.

 

[Jost Amman]

My point wasn't "you can't mine", it was "you don't have to"

I understand your point... soooo, do you think "looting" or "scrapping" should have its own LBD leveling?
Because if you do, we're back at square one: you need to do it a lot before you get good at it, which was my point.

People who don't like an activity are forced to use an alternative one because they don't want to grind the necessary time to raise it to acceptable levels. To simplify, if I mine at LBD Level 0, it'll take a huge amount of time to get enough resources for my base, until I level up enough. In the same way, looting or scrapping at LBD Level 0, will total me a much less generous amount of resources than you get now.

So, whatever path you take, with LBD you're forced to grind.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Water, storms, and biome progression is better now than it was and who knows maybe general player progression will be too if TFP hears all sides.

All RPGs and games with RPG elements have "S.P.E.C.I.A.L." stats, though of course not all games can call them "S.P.E.C.I.A.L." stats, which are called Attributes in 7 Days. Perks are generally chosen separately, but are not presented separately in 7 Days as is the general trend in modern RPGs. Rather they're fused together with skills under attributes. Perhaps where some come by the impression they can't play "their" way?

A hybrid LBD-LBR system would make wilderness areas more viable, certainly, but that's its only advantage for the game itself as far as I can tell.

 

[theFlu]

Did I? Are you sure you weren’t reading that into what I posted?

Player A doesn’t really change their behavior and they still get a satisfying feeling of progression.

Player B is forced to mine when it isn’t fun for them and grind their skills up in a very tedious process. There is no choice to do it any other way.

Simply, player preferences. I'm not saying one is better than the other.

I’m sure you see this period of time as your last best chance to get LBD back in the game so with the stakes so high perhaps your sensitivity is too.

Eh. I have no illusion anything we chat about on here has any effect on the game. I'm happy if they manage to cut the tedium that is magazines, but I'm not pushing for anything. Just yapping.

 

[theFlu]

To simplify, if I mine at LBD Level 0, it'll take a huge amount of time to get enough resources for my base, until I level up enough. In the same way, looting or scrapping at LBD Level 0, will total me a much less generous amount of resources than you get now.

Because "mining at zero points" is worse that "mining at two points", then LBD = bad. I get it, you don't like early mining, or early scavenging, or early fighting, or early bartering, or early game in general ... that's the point of a progression system. The start is weak, to enable progression. Whether that's LBD or XP based doesn't change the basics.

Nothing in this discussion has even started trying to define "how long it would take", for any reasonable comparison to even be made. The end result could easily be that you get your base mats faster with an LBD system. You mentioned you don't believe that would be the case, but nothing actually says the new system wouldn't mostly match the current system, where the starting points are basically free.

 

[Roland]

Just yapping.

I know. But just for the sake of clarity, in that quote up above, both Player A and Player B were playing LBD. It wasn’t Player A good skillpoint shopping and player B bad LBD. it was LBD will be good for some people and bad for others.

 

[theFlu]

it was LBD will be good for some people and bad for others.

More accurately it was "LBD will not change anything for some people and be bad for others".

 

[Jost Amman]

but nothing actually says the new system wouldn't mostly match the current system, where the starting points are basically free.

So, let me understand... if the end result is the same, why do you need LBD?
Just for immersion? I feel well immersed in the game right now, I don't need LBD for that.

 

[theFlu]

So, let me understand... if the end result is the same, why do you need LBD?

Well, I don't need it. But let's say I want it. For me:
1) It'd be one rare thing that doesn't add to the quest loop gravity well.
2) It'd be way more compatible with leveling up in the wilds, organically. My favorite playthroughs have been building dwarven fortresses, starting on D1 and living off the land as much as possible. Water system and magazines basically neutered that entirely.
3) I love the little incremental improvements (no reason, I just do).

For one and two, I'd argue it's also better for the survival game; more like a prepper, less like an errand boy.

You can belittle that as immersion, if you will. It's all immersion from the moment you click on the "Spawn in".

 

[Rotor]

immersion

Is a big deal for me for a survivalist style of play.

Hence forth here with I hated the ability to obtain water from a body of water was such a dreadful change.

Thank Cod is back .

Immersion is a big deal............................to me.

 

[Professor-Pip]

Lately, I've been playing with a Hybrid LBD/LBR mod and I really enjoy it. To me, it makes sense that reading a book or magazine will help teach me things. It also makes sense that doing things will make me better at them. So gaining some points in Mining by mining, or in Cooking by cooking, feels immersive, So does reading articles in magazines to learn to craft better tools or learn more cooking techniques, because that's what I do IRL.

I remember spending nights in a hole spam-crafting stone axes to get to the next level of tool building. Not fun, and not realistic. I feel like the direction the game is going is good. Maybe not quite what I would have decided, but then, it's not my game. I'm just a player and I will continue to enjoy the changes TFP make and the mods others make, probably for years to come.

 

[Noxom]

Whoosh. You mentioned immersion, hence the river. Immersion, soup and LBD are all subjective was my point.

Well, I don't need it. But let's say I want it. For me:
1) It'd be one rare thing that doesn't add to the quest loop gravity well.
2) It'd be way more compatible with leveling up in the wilds, organically. My favorite playthroughs have been building dwarven fortresses, starting on D1 and living off the land as much as possible. Water system and magazines basically neutered that entirely.
3) I love the little incremental improvements (no reason, I just do).

For one and two, I'd argue it's also better for the survival game; more like a prepper, less like an errand boy.

You can belittle that as immersion, if you will. It's all immersion from the moment you click on the "Spawn in".

1) I avoid quests like the plague just to spite/disprove this way of thinking, and my playthroughs have never suffered. You don't need to quest. You haven't needed to for many versions. LBD wouldn't stop people from spamming quests. It would force them to decide between spamming to grind or spamming quests.

2) Leveling up in the wilds... Sitting in the woods away from POI's and somehow progressing "organically". Choosing to ignore most of the game to play house in the woods doesn't mean the systems are the problem. I have nothing against people who want to build cool things and sit out in their bases. I think you would benefit more from turning on creative and going wild. Being upset that the game itself isn't being conformed to allow any playstyle to be perfectly viable doesn't make sense. What's the point of leveling out in the woods if you don't plan on going out and doing anything with the levels and gear you "organically" made? If you do intend to eventually get involved with the world, then why avoid it to begin with?


3) Magazines are incremental improvements. Finding better gear, leveling up and spending points, gathering resources, gaining resistances to other biomes, upgrading your bases defenses, and getting bigger quests are all incremental improvements. The only thing LBD really adds is extra grind, and without that grind LBD has no real meaning. How does making progress more rigid/grindy make it better survival? It's still miles away from the kind of "survival" people seem to expect.

 

[theFlu]

just to spite

Cool beans, I play games for fun. I'm not trying to stop people from spamming quests if that's what they like; I would like the game to be decently functional without.

You don't like the things I do, that's great, champ. And I should care because..?

The only thing LBD really adds is extra grind

Welp, tell that to madmole, he's planning for a "hybrid"... he hasn't explained the deets; the easiest I can come up with is you get "magazine XP" to lessen the bookshelf grind, while nothing else changes. LBD added, zero grind added.

 

[Jost Amman]

1) It'd be one rare thing that doesn't add to the quest loop gravity well.

Well, nobody forces you to do jobs (quests).

2) It'd be way more compatible with leveling up in the wilds, organically. My favorite playthroughs have been building dwarven fortresses, starting on D1 and living off the land as much as possible. Water system and magazines basically neutered that entirely.

Yeah, that's a point that many have made because of this kind of play style.

I never understood people who like to play the entire game magically developing every skill and acquiring all recipes just by staying in the same spot all the time. So much for immersion...

3) I love the little incremental improvements (no reason, I just do).

The reason is called "addiction" (dopamine shots after each small increment).
This technique is well known by on-line providers and slot-machine vendors who use it to keep people addicted.

That's also one of the reasons I'm against LBD in general.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 5:44 PM

being able to gather water from a river is when i truly feel like a part of the ecosystem.

Being able to gather water from a river has nothing to do with the LBD vs. Skill Points discussion, and neither does chicken soup vs. beef soup.

 

[theFlu]

Well, nobody forces you to do jobs (quests).

I have a big pile of dirt on my yard, and a little pile. I grab a handful of dirt from the big pile and toss it on the little one. My neighbor peeks over the fence and says to me "You don't Have to stand on the big pile." You're making as much sense as my imaginary neighbor.

I never understood people who like to play the entire game magically developing every skill and acquiring all recipes just by staying in the same spot all the time. So much for immersion...

Magically developing cooking skills by bashing in zombies heads is much more immersive for sure.

That's also one of the reasons I'm against LBD in general.

Well, you're doing good at avoiding the dopamine of winning arguments.

 

[Jost Amman]

Welp, tell that to madmole, he's planning for a "hybrid"... he hasn't explained the deets; the easiest I can come up with is you get "magazine XP" to lessen the bookshelf grind, while nothing else changes. LBD added, zero grind added.

What you call bookshelf grind I call "knowledge hunting". Every interesting book I find it's either a let down or a pleasant surprise. With LBD instead, you literally the same action over and over to get better. At least with the books you need to explore and make some plans on where are the best places to find what you need.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 5:52 PM

Well, you're doing good at avoiding the dopamine of winning arguments.

Well, since I see you're judge, jury and executioner, why don't you give yourself a pat on your back?