The LBD theyre introducing isnt what I wanted or had in mind.

[tdevine]

Not sure why the leveling by doing was abandoned. Why can't it work with a diminishing return system?

Example:

Creating an axe = 1 point per level for the first 50 axes at each level, then drops to .10 points each at any level, (since players abuse and just create an axe over and over again) So a player making a level 3 axe would get 3 points each until they made 50, then points for making a level 3 axe drops to .10 points each

Hitting a tree or block with an axe = .25 points, (since this can also be abused, but way more work and costing time)

Hitting any zombie with an axe = 1 point every time, (harder to abuse this process)

Each level would also ramp up exponentially:
Level 1 = 0
Level 2 = 200 points
Level 3 = 300 points
Level 4 = 400 points etc......... All the way to level 100

Maybe magazines could just give you a boost, say from 20 points to 500 points depending on loot stage

The numbers can obviously be adjusted for a sweet spot. But it can be made to work so that someone trying to specialize in the axe may eventually reach approx. level 100 by day 30 or 60 or 100 whatever seems reasonable.

 

[Roland]

Level by doing can work. You are correct. A design choice was made. The devs always thought of the game as Walking Dead meets Minecraft meets Fallout. They experimented with LBD but ultimately went for a design that was closer to Fallout's design rather than Skyrim's design.

Recently, the devs have stated that they would like to utilize Learn by doing to augment the crafting progression that is currently handled by reading magazines so LBD will be coming back in a limited way but the main character progression for skills and perks will continue to be via purchasing using skillpoints.

 

[tdevine]

Level by doing can work. You are correct. A design choice was made. The devs always thought of the game as Walking Dead meets Minecraft meets Fallout. They experimented with LBD but ultimately went for a design that was closer to Fallout's design rather than Skyrim's design.

Recently, the devs have stated that they would like to utilize Learn by doing to augment the crafting progression that is currently handled by reading magazines so LBD will be coming back in a limited way but the main character progression for skills and perks will continue to be via purchasing using skillpoints.

They could also hybrid the skill system too, that might be fun.

 

[Roland]

They could. That’s what I meant by design choice. As of now they are choosing not to do that but who can say what the future will bring in a world where empty jars exist again.

 

[Jost Amman]

Not sure why the leveling by doing was abandoned. Why can't it work with a diminishing return system?

Example:

Creating an axe = 1 point per level for the first 50 axes at each level, then drops to .10 points each at any level, (since players abuse and just create an axe over and over again) So a player making a level 3 axe would get 3 points each until they made 50, then points for making a level 3 axe drops to .10 points each

Hitting a tree or block with an axe = .25 points, (since this can also be abused, but way more work and costing time)

Hitting any zombie with an axe = 1 point every time, (harder to abuse this process)

Each level would also ramp up exponentially:
Level 1 = 0
Level 2 = 200 points
Level 3 = 300 points
Level 4 = 400 points etc......... All the way to level 100

Maybe magazines could just give you a boost, say from 20 points to 500 points depending on loot stage

The numbers can obviously be adjusted for a sweet spot. But it can be made to work so that someone trying to specialize in the axe may eventually reach approx. level 100 by day 30 or 60 or 100 whatever seems reasonable.

I hate this type of LBD because it fosters repetitive game play and distracts from the main game loop.

LBD was invented many years ago mainly to extend interest in MMOs/MMORPGs, where subscribers could soon finish the available content and they needed to be given a reason to come back each month. That's not a healthy way to play.

In a mainly single player game (or low count COOP) that mechanic is actually harmful in my opinion.
That's why I 100% agree with the choice TFP have made.

 

[Suxar]

In a mainly single player game (or low count COOP) that mechanic is actually harmful in my opinion.

The PvE servers are doing quite well. PvP isn't very well implemented, but PvE works very well, in my opinion.

 

[Jost Amman]

The PvE servers are doing quite well. PvP isn't very well implemented, but PvE works very well, in my opinion.

I wasn't talking about how PvE is doing right now.
I don't understand your comment.

Oh, I get it, maybe you misunderstood what I intended by "low count"... I didn't mean to say there are few players, I mean that 7D2D is a "low count" COOP, because it only supports MAX 8 players officially.

 

[Suxar]

Oh, I get it, maybe you misunderstood what I intended by "low count"... I didn't mean to say there are few players, I mean that 7D2D is a "low count" COOP, because it only supports MAX 8 players officially.

I meant the game doesn't necessarily have to be co-op. I play on a dedicated server with people I don't know. Sometimes we team up, usually during a blood moon. But most of the time, everyone plays on their own. We occasionally trade items, and players open shops. It's a pretty interesting way to play.

And although the game doesn't officially support more than 8 players, the server handles well with 20 players online.

 

[Jost Amman]

I meant the game doesn't necessarily have to be co-op. I play on a dedicated server with people I don't know. Sometimes we team up, usually during a blood moon. But most of the time, everyone plays on their own. We occasionally trade items, and players open shops. It's a pretty interesting way to play.

And although the game doesn't officially support more than 8 players, the server handles well with 20 players online.

In any case my point was this is not an MMO or MMORPG with hundreds of players, so LBD mechanics are not necessary in my opinion, not only that, I think they'd be detrimental.

 

[Rotor]

...... in a world where empty jars exist again.

Hallelujah!

 

[Worrun]

The change is welcome, because updates bring a fresh feel to a game we often take for granted is live-service title that most of us paid less than $10 for over ten years ago.

What worries me, though, is that future updates which might have included entirely new content (X, Y, and Z) could now end up being mostly reworks of old systems (like the skill system and the LBD hybrid), once again coming at the cost of truly new content.

 

[Vaeliorin]

LBD was invented many years ago mainly to extend interest in MMOs/MMORPGs, where subscribers could soon finish the available content and they needed to be given a reason to come back each month. That's not a healthy way to play.

LBD existed long before MMOs and the modern internet did. I played games in the late 80s/early 90s with LBD mechanics.

 

[Dead Smarty]

LBD existed long before MMOs and the modern internet did. I played games in the late 80s/early 90s with LBD mechanics.

I even dare to say it is way older, think it was already the most used system before the origin of homo sapiens.

 

[Jost Amman]

LBD existed long before MMOs and the modern internet did. I played games in the late 80s/early 90s with LBD mechanics.

You got the names of some of those games?

Post automatically merged: Jan 12, 2026

I even dare to say it is way older, think it was already the most used system before the origin of homo sapiens.

I was talking about LBD in computer games man.

 

[zztong]

You got the names of some of those games?

RuneQuest (published in 1978) is/was a tabletop RPG where when you successfully used a skill you got a checkmark by that skill which indicated at some later time you could roll to see if it improved. It's been a long time since I've seen that system, so I might be off on what little details I mentioned.

I even dare to say it is way older, think it was already the most used system before the origin of homo sapiens.

Certainly humanity has learned a lot via LBD (practice makes perfect) but that doesn't make it efficient. If all new-born babies learned exclusively by LBD, humanity would still be in the stone age. Learning from each other is far more effective... to a point... and not in every case. Man has learned a lot by observing the world around us. Plus many "happy accidents" in the lab revealed breakthroughs, which you could say is learn by doing, though they often don't learn what they set out to learn when that happens. Imagine accidentally learning that you club is an okay ranged weapon, for instance. Whooops...

 

[theFlu]

Plus many "happy accidents" in the lab revealed breakthroughs, which you could say is learn by doing, though they often don't learn what they set out to learn when that happens.

It has been said, that the first guy to invent nitroglyserine, didn't. He just picked up the notes from the wreckage of the lab of the guy who did.

(j/k ofc)

 

[Riamus]

Daggerfall had LBD and was released in 1996. Even if there were MMOs around then, they were still relatively new and LBD in Daggerfall had nothing to do with MMOs. I wouldn't say LBD is because of MMOs.

 

[Roland]

The weakness of LBD for me is that it stunts my desire to replay the game. I don't know why I feel okay with replaying the progression with skillpoint shopping but not with LBD but it is a real thing. When I think about starting over and having to increase my skills again through LBD, it often prevents me from booting up the game again. But I don't feel the same way about finding magazines or spending skillpoints. It's weird but I can't help it. I did not feel like starting over with Darkness Falls and doing another replay once it became time but vanilla gives me no pause on restarting over and over.

 

[Jost Amman]

Daggerfall had LBD and was released in 1996. Even if there were MMOs around then, they were still relatively new and LBD in Daggerfall had nothing to do with MMOs. I wouldn't say LBD is because of MMOs.

There were MMOs (kind of) were there wasn't any Internet yet.
I remember connecting to a BBS with my phone (you had to know the actual phone number) and playing a text MMO/RPG with other people.

Post automatically merged: Jan 12, 2026

The weakness of LBD for me is that it stunts my desire to replay the game. I don't know why I feel okay with replaying the progression with skillpoint shopping but not with LBD but it is a real thing. When I think about starting over and having to increase my skills again through LBD, it often prevents me from booting up the game again. But I don't feel the same way about finding magazines or spending skillpoints. It's weird but I can't help it. I did not feel like starting over with Darkness Falls and doing another replay once it became time but vanilla gives me no pause on restarting over and over.

That's exactly how I feel. LBD in a way is monotonous.

Post automatically merged: Jan 12, 2026

RuneQuest (published in 1978) is/was a tabletop RPG where when you successfully used a skill you got a checkmark by that skill which indicated at some later time you could roll to see if it improved. It's been a long time since I've seen that system, so I might be off on what little details I mentioned.

As I said before I wasn't talking about table top games or books or anything else but computer games.

 

[Riamus]

I'm not sure I'd call MUDs MMOs, but I suppose. There was a regular MMO in the mid 90s as well (The Realm by Sierra). But even so, I don't really think LBD came from MMOs. As far as MUDs go, the ones I played weren't really about long end games like a MMO.