PC The Duke, Noah, and the story so far

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khzmusik

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Here is what I can glean about the 7D2D story so far.

Most of this is taken from entries in the translation files. I also took some information from the official Wiki, and sometimes from the game's XML configuration files, or from things the developers have said in the past. However, most of this is not currently in the game.

So until we hear otherwise from the developers, all of this could change.

For real-life information, I'll provide Wikipedia links if I can find them.

The story takes place in Navezgane, Arizona. 

This is how Navezgane is described in the translation files:

"Navezgane County Arizona one of the last true Eden’s on Earth where crops can still grow which is mostly Apache Indian Reservation territory."

According to the official Wiki entry:

"In the Apache language, 'Navezgane' means 'Killer of Monsters.'"

The various Apache tribes speak dialects of the Southern Athabaskan language, and as far as I can tell, that is incorrect. However, there is a Navajo mythical hero named Nayenezgani, whose name can be translated to "Monster Slayer" or "Killer of Enemies." The Apache and Navajo have a shared history and mythology, so it is not unreasonable to guess that "Navezgane" is based off of him.

For reasons which will become clear, I believe Navezgane is meant to be located in the Fort Apache Indian Reservation.

The Duke is Native American, and the "boss" of Navezgane.

When you first spawn in, you have a note from the Duke which reads:
"Just a friendly reminder that you pay on time, every time or there will be consequences. Next time we won't be so nice. Thanks for the gear, but you still owe us. See you soon. -The Duke"

From his entry in the translation files:
"The most powerful man in Navezgane before the war was an ambitious, crooked Native American of Apache decent named 'Duke Cassadore' which means Warrior and Chief in Apache."

He also owned a casino:
"A Duke's casino coin. After the epidemic and war these brass coins became the main currency for trading in Navezgane."

This is the in-game picture of the Duke:
paintingDuke.png

Neither "Duke" nor "Cassadore" are Apache (Southern Athabaskan) words.

I am guessing that "Duke" comes from John Wayne's nickname. But that is only a guess.

I don't know where "Cassadore" comes from (it's the Portuguese spelling of "Cazador," which means "hunter" in Spanish). But even though "Cassadore" isn't Native American, there are a couple of Apaches named "Cassadore" (for the same reason that some Black people are named Jones). The only two I could find are Twila Cassadore (indigenous food advocate), and Philip Cassadore (traditional Apache singer, spiritual leader, and '70s Presidential candidate).

Speaking of the Cassadores, the translation files describe them as:

"The Duke's personal band of mercenaries."

In previous versions of the game's npc.xml file, there were separate factions for the Duke and for bandits, with the Duke faction disliking the bandits, suggesting that the Cassadores were not going to be the bandits in the game. But in Alpha 21, the "bandits" faction was removed. This doesn't mean the Cassadores are going to be the bandits, but it is suggestive.

Noah Wright (or Noah White) is the main rival of the Duke.

When you complete the first challenges and get a quest to go to a trader, you see this on the screen:

"Good Job Survivor,

"You have proved to be capable with much potential. We have marked your map with the nearest White River Outpost location. There you will find a Trader where you can buy and sell goods, and trade stories with one of our friendly citizens.

"Welcome Aboard, Noah"

This is how Noah is described in the translation files:

"The founder of the White River Settler's Outposts, Noah White stood up to the Duke and is now on the run from the Cassadores."

This is the in-game picture of Noah:
paintingNoah.png

In real life, Whiteriver, Arizona is the seat of government for the White Mountain Apache tribe. But there is no mention of this in the game files, and Noah seems to be "White" in both name and ethnicity.

The end game

Because this isn't in the game yet, people might not want to see where the story is going. If you don't want the game's future story spoiled, don't read any further!

In the end game, the player will choose to side with either the Duke or Noah.

However, if it wasn't clear from what is already in the game, players are encouraged to consider Noah the "good guy" and the Duke the "bad guy."

There are several translation entries (most new to 1.0) which verify both of these things. Each trader has separate dialog when giving a quest to meet either the Duke or Noah. There are also several "rumor" entries in the translations. Traders that are friendly (Jen, Joel) side with Noah, and traders who are unfriendly (Rekt, Hugh) side with the Duke. Bob dislikes both.

Here are the translation entries, by trader.

Trader Rekt on Noah and White River:
"That Noah fancies himself to be some kind of modern day Robin Hood. He's just a scumbag thief. You'd probably fit in good with him."
"That White River outfit all ought to be hanged."
"Noah's gotta be the dumbest @%$# thinking he can come in here and buy things on credit."
"Noah, that @%$#! You tell him I'm gonna cut his god damned throat."
"If I see any White River scum, I just start shooting. You're not one of them, are you?"
"Noah killed a few of the Duke's men, now he's got to look over both shoulders."
"The only thing good about The White River Settlers is watching the Duke hang 'em."
"Some of those White River @%$#s were in here asking for you. Come to my store, and I'll give you the info."
"I don't know what kind of goody two shoes @%$# you've been pulling, but Noah, that White River @%$#, wants to meet up. You tell those sons of @%$#es that if they come here again I'll shoot 'em."


Trader Rekt on the Duke:
"The Duke's got my vote, and that's all that matters."
"I shot a low life one time, and the Duke said I was in my rights."
"The Duke pays his bills and doesn't ask for credit or favors like those White River Clowns."
"The Duke kills scumbags all the time. I'd watch my back if I were you."
"Me and the Duke go way back. I used to gamble at his casino before the @%$# hit the fan."
"If you think the Duke is mean, you haven't seen me mad yet."
"The Duke's just like me. He tells it like it is and everyone's scared of him."
"Hey @%$#! The Duke wants to see you for some god damned reason. Come to my store, and I'll fill you in."
"I guess you're some kind of hotshot because the Duke wants to meet you at his casino. Or maybe he'll just kill you like I would. Well, get going! The Duke doesn't like to wait!"


Trader Jen on Noah and White River:
"Noah might rough a few people up, but at least that is good for business. The Duke just kills them, and I don't sell shovels."
"Noah has the right ideas. Half the bandits out there are the Duke's men."
"Noah promised me a new hospital if he wins the war. Yeah right.."
"The White River Settlers are the ones dropping free supplies. Who cares where they come from if they are helping folks?"
"The White River Settlers are true heroes. They saved me from a nasty horde one time."
"Oh, you won't believe this. Noah wants to meet you! Come in, and I'll get you the details."
"So you've been doing a lot of great work out there and Noah himself from the White River Settlers wants to meet you! I think you will like Noah. He's got a heart of gold."


Trader Jen on the Duke:
"The Duke is just a hothead who thinks he's God's gift to the apocalypse."
"The Duke charges for protection. That means as long as you pay him, he won't kill you."
"The Duke is more of a terrorist than a visionary like he fancies himself to be."
"The Duke is bad for business. I heal people, not bury them."
"I heard half of the Duke's army came from the prisons. A real rough bunch."
"The Duke owned a casino before the apocalypse started. He's been rigging the game his entire life."
"The Duke would kill me, but I'm the only doctor in town."
"The Duke has some nerve. He tried to tell me I couldn't treat any White River Sympathizers."
"Hey, hotshot, I got something big for you. The Duke wants to meet you. Come in, and I'll give you the details."
"So you've got the attention of the Duke. He wants to meet you in person at his casino. I wouldn't trust him, but it's up to you."


Trader Bob on Noah and White River:
"Noah is as tough as a nickel steak."
"That Noah seems like a nice enough feller, but I think he's as crooked as a dog's hind leg."
"I think Noah is as crooked as a barrel of fish hooks."
"Noah's a few pickles short of a barrel."
"Them White River fellers are ridin' a gravy train on biscuit wheels. Their luck will run out. The Duke is not to be trifled with."
"That Noah is as tight as a fiddle string. Comes in here actin' all high and mighty and talkin' about a good cause, but never pays the bill."
"You're better off skinnin' your own buffalo than joining them White River fellers."
"Well, aren't you popular? Noah from the White River wants to meet you. Come on in, and I'll give you the skinny."
"So apparently, Noah from the White River has noticed you turning in a lot of jobs and he wants to meet you. Don't forget about us little folk once you get all high and mighty."


Trader Bob on the Duke:
"That Duke has got one big hole in his screen door."
"Them Duke boys are tougher than a stewed skunk."
"The Duke has got horns holdin' up his halo."
"The Duke is as mean as a mama wasp."
"The Duke is so crooked, if he swallowed a nail he'd spit up a corkscrew."
"You'd be better off fendin' for yourself than gettin in bed with those Duke boys."
"It looks like yer makin' some noise out there. The Duke wants to set up a meet n' greet, come on in, and I'll get you the details."
"So the Duke sent some men in here asking about you. I don't know what he wants, but be careful. He's slicker than pig snot on a radiator."


Trader Bob on both:
"The Duke and Noah are both full of chicken @%$#, if you ask me."

Trader Hugh on Noah and White River:
"Noah's too soft to ever make a real difference."
"Those White River fanatics are all talk with their hopes and their dreams."
"I think those White River fanatics are just bandits. They hide their faces, so they can rob you blind."
"If there's a way out of this mess, it sure as @%$# won't be following those White River candy-asses."
"Noah had the nerve to ask me for credit. Said he'd pay me back when he takes down the Duke. I told him no dukes, no guns."
"Noah thinking he can take down the Duke is a pipe dream. The Duke is well-armed, well-funded and has an army."
"Those White River idiots are the ones causing all the drama. The Duke is just keeping the peace."
"I don't know what you did, but those White River Rats came in and were asking about you. Come in, and I'll give you the details."
"I don't know what you did, but that Noah character from those White River fanatics wants to meet you. I'd tell that yellow @%$# to go @%$# himself, but whatever, it's your funeral. Go meet him and see what he wants."


Trader Hugh on the Duke:
"The Duke provides order to all this chaos, and he buys a lot of guns, so it's a win-win situation."
"The Duke ain't no saint, but at least you know who he is and what he's capable of."
"The Duke buys more guns in a day than all the rest of these @%$#es do in a year."
"The Duke supports the right to bear arms. He's got my vote, not that he needed it. The Duke gets what the Duke wants."
"It's just a matter of time before the Duke finds Noah and crushes those White River rats."
"The Duke's winning this war for a reason. He buys all his guns from us."
"Trader Rekt sells good food, great booze, and supports the Duke, so what's not to like?"
"If the Duke didn't protect us, we'd all be zed heads by now."
"Well holeee @%$# man! The Duke's men were here looking for you. Get your ass in here and I'll give you the details."
"So you must have done something right. The Duke sent his men in here looking for you and they want to have a sit down. What an honor it would be to meet the Duke."


Trader Joel on Noah and White River:
"Noah's a brave man to go up against a tyrant like the Duke."
"I'll be rich if Noah wins this war. Do you know how much taxes the Duke charges me?"
"Make no mistake, The White River Settlers are the good guys."
"Noah believes in free trade, so he's got my vote."
"The White River Settlers help grease the wheels of commerce. That makes them the good guys in my book."
"People love a good story. Ever since Noah stood up to the Duke, people can't stop talking about him. He's like an apocalyptic Robin Hood."
"Trader Jen and I both support The White River Settlers. That makes us friends, right?"
"The White River Settlers provide hope for a free society."
"I like Noah, but he is so cheap, he'd probably pay you in expired coupons."
"Guess what? Noah wants to meet you! Come in, and I'll give you the details."
"It seems you've been doing good work, my friend. Noah from The White River Settlers wants to meet you. This is an amazing opportunity, friend."


Trader Joel on the Duke:
"One look at the Duke's men, and you can tell they are a bunch of degenerates."
"The Duke tried to get me with his protection racket. I sold that @%$# a bunch of armor and marked it up so high that it covered his bill and made me a nice profit."
"The Duke might kill a lot of scumbags and make Navezgane a bit safer. The problem is that he kills a lot of good people too."
"The Dukes are just a bunch of terrorists, if you asked me."
"The Duke is just a dictator in a fancy suit."
"So the Duke's men were at my store looking for you. Come in, and I'll give you the details."
"I thought you were playing for the right team, but I guess I was wrong. The Duke likes the work you've done and wants to meet you. I wouldn't trust him, if I were you."

 
This is the coolest, post I have read on here. I got curious and read about it when I first started,

and couldn't figure how the person inferred to be against the bandits, was also the main antagonist.

After that I didn't think about it again till people started talking story lore recently. But this completely

explains it. 

Sincerely Thank You.

 
Neither "Duke" nor "Cassadore" are Apache (Southern Athabaskan) words.

I am guessing that "Duke" comes from John Wayne's nickname. But that is only a guess.
I've always assumed that it was Duke as in the noble title, but I suppose that could be wrong.

 
I've always assumed that it was Duke as in the noble title, but I suppose that could be wrong.


It would be strange, since Apaches (and Native Americans in general) don't have anything resembling a Western "duke." Apache chiefs and leaders gain their positions through merit, not through noble lineage. (Though there were several sons of chiefs who also became chiefs, it was still merit-based, it wasn't automatic).

The reason I suspect "Duke" is an homage to John Wayne, is because the story seems to be inspired by the "Cowboys and Indians" Westerns from the 50's and 60's, including those that John Ford used to make.

Also, I might have found another inspiration for the "Cassadore" surname. There was a leader of the San Carlos Apache tribe who was named "Casador" or "Casadora", and whose native name (either "Nànt'àntco" or "Nantʼánchoh") is supposed to mean "Great Chief."

But it's a pretty obscure reference. Wikipedia is the only website I could find that even mentions him, and he doesn't even have his own entry. He's briefly mentioned on the entry for Western Apache people, and on the entry for John Rope, the White Mountain Apache leader and scout who tried to arrest him. The only external reference Wikipedia cites for him is the book "White Justice in Arizona: Apache Murder Trials in the Nineteenth Century" by Clare Vernon McKanna.

Given how obscure it is, I think it's unlikely he is the inspiration, but this is the only time I've seen anything close to "Warrior and Chief" associated with the name.

 
Before this thread gets buried, I wouldn't feel right if I didn't point out how problematic this storyline is.

I think the literal whitewashing of Whiteriver speaks for itself. But the Duke character is also pretty bad.

In reality, someone like the Duke can't exist by law. Native gaming is federally regulated under the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. Under that act:

  • Native casinos are owned by the tribe, not by individual Native Americans. They cannot be privately owned.
  • The tribe must use all revenue earned from tribal gaming on the tribe's general welfare - improving infrastructure, funding education, supporting charities, etc. Tribal governments may give per capita payments directly to members of the tribe, but this must be approved by the Department of the Interior, and few tribes do this.
  • To offer casino-style gaming, tribes must negotiate a compact with the state. This means the state gets money from the gaming revenue. In the case of Arizona, since its inception in 2003, tribal gaming has contributed about $2 billion to Arizona cities, towns and counties; and about $2 billion to the Arizona Benefits Fund (ABF).
  • Currently, 12% of tribal casinos generate 65% of tribal gaming revenues. The high-earning casinos are almost always near urban areas - not places like the Fort Apache Indian Reservation.
    EDIT: If the Duke is indeed supposed to be White Mountain Apache, then the casino in question would be the Hon-Dah Resort Casino in Pinetop, AZ. Foxwoods, it is not.



Of course, this is not how tribal casinos are portrayed on TV. The "casino Indian" is portrayed as greedy, corrupt, and amoral, exploiting his Native American ancestry to gain personal wealth and power. This portrayal is considered by most sociologists to be a negative racial stereotype, a modern version the "ignoble savage" stereotype that you often see in old Western movies (including those early John Ford movies starring John Wayne). It is often associated with the rejection of Native sovereignty.

The main difference is that "ignoble savages" are physical threats, while "casino Indians" are usually economic or political threats - though in the case of 7D2D, the Duke is both.

In many cases, the "casino Indian" stereotype is directly contrasted with the "noble savage" stereotype. The casinos represent Native Americans giving up their traditional culture in order to get money. In my opinion, this can sometimes be handled OK. There's an episode of Z Nation that does this, and it's not bad, mainly because it's depicted primarily as a conflict within the tribe, and not between the tribe and White people. ("We Were Nowhere Near the Grand Canyon.")

But right now, 7D2D isn't even doing this. There is not a single Native American "good guy" in the game, and as far as I can tell, there is no indication that TFP plan to add any.

Obviously, this must also be viewed against the backdrop of Native American history. That is a history of slavery, massacres, ethnic cleansing, and genocidal campaigns done by White Europeans against Native Americans. (That history is too long to go into here, but it's easy to research if you don't want to take my word for it. I give a link below to Wikipedia if you want to start your Wiki walk.)

The effects of that history can still be felt today. Native Americans have the lowest incomes, highest unemployment rates, and are more likely to be the victims of violent crime more than any other ethnicity in the United States. For example, Whiteriver has a median household income of $38,205 (the national average is $80,610), and an employment rate of just 32.7%.

So, I really hope that TFP drop this story, or at least make major revisions to it.

It's entirely possible that they will - as I hopefully made clear, the story isn't actually in the game yet. Even as is, it's much better than the characters presented in the A19 dev diary, where the "bad guys" were all Native American savages and the "good guys" were all paramilitary White people. They seem to have shifted away from that, thank goodness. So there is definitely hope.

But if they don't move away from this story line, then I can't recommend this game to any of my friends or family. I don't want to be associated with a modern version of Custer's Revenge.

EDIT: In the rest of the comments, a lot of people seem to think I am saying TFP are racist, or at the very least, hold some kind of animosity towards Native Americans.

I want to be 100% clear that I am not saying that. There could be any number of reasons why they put these tropes into the game, and most of them have nothing to do with prejudice or racist intent. I fully believe that whatever racial stereotypes are in the (unfinished) game, are not put there intentionally.

Sources and further reading (I didn't want this post to be held up by moderation, so you have to add "https" and "://" to the links below):

  • The Myth Of Indian Casino Riches
    ictnews.org/archive/the-myth-of-indian-casino-riches (warning: ads)
  • 10 Things You Need to Know about Indian Reservation Gambling
    www.mentalfloss.com/article/25137/10-things-you-need-know-about-indian-reservation-gambling
  • Native American Gaming
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_gaming
  • Indian Gaming Regulatory Act
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Gaming_Regulatory_Act
  • Tribal Contributions to Arizona
    gaming.az.gov/department_measures#tribal-contributions
  • TV’s New Indian: Gangs And Casinos
    www.americanindianmagazine.org/story/tvs-new-indian-gangs-and-casinos
  • High Stakes Stereotypes: The Emergence of the “Casino Indian” Trope in Television Depictions of Contemporary Native Americans
    www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10646175.2011.546738
  • White Opposition to Native Nation Sovereignty: The Role of “The Casino Indian” Stereotype and Presence of Native Nation Gaming
    www.cambridge.org/core/journals/du-bois-review-social-science-research-on-race/article/abs/white-opposition-to-native-nation-sovereignty/728CEA397535ED460D845F7648B3B794728CEA397535ED460D845F7648B3B794
  • Native American genocide in the United_States
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_genocide_in_the_United_States
  • Violence against native peoples
    www.indian-affairs.org/violenceagainstnatives.html
  • U.S. Census Bureau: Whiteriver CDP, Arizona
    data.census.gov/profile/Whiteriver_CDP,_Arizona?g=160XX00US0482530
  • Alpha 19 Dev Diary
    youtu.be/VSuc7-6O75g?si=dH6_YrVdRYSwT86K&t=5521
  • Hon-Dah Resort Casino
    www.hon-dah.com
 
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In reality, someone like the Duke can't exist by law.
I'd say most such laws are out the window once the nukes start falling. A ruthless leader rising in times in of strife isn't exactly surprising.

The tribe must use all revenue earned from tribal gaming on the tribe's general welfare - improving infrastructure,
I guess that explains the parking meters running on dukes :)

 
I'd say most such laws are out the window once the nukes start falling. A ruthless leader rising in times in of strife isn't exactly surprising.


I guess you missed that the Duke was a "casino Indian" before the war. That is the stereotype which can't happen in real life.

But if you want a "ruthless leader," why have him be (at best) the general manager of a small-time casino and resort?

Why not someone with political power, a member of the Whiteriver tribal government, like the Chairman or Vice Chairman, or a member of the Tribal Council? Or, the chief of the White Mountain Apache Police Department?

Or, if you're looking for someone corrupt and ruthless with a desire to close the border to outsiders, why not make him a Joe-Arpaio-style Arizona sheriff?

Or, someone who actually knows how to lead fighters, like an officer in the Army or National Guard?

Why not a private owner of a local business that isn't a casino, who could stockpile things that people actually need in an apocalypse, like an owner of a gun store or supermarket?

All of these people are better candidates for a "ruthless leader" than a dude who primarily managed people like custodians, cashiers, cooks, and floor attendants, most of which probably never picked up a gun in their lives.

I guess that explains the parking meters running on dukes :)


Sure, because when the nukes start falling, the first thing my local government does is go hundreds of miles away to a different city, rip up their parking meters, and replace them with ones that they designed to take Dave and Buster's tokens. That's totally not utterly implausible or anything.

...Yeah, I know you're joking to make light of the situation, and you're trying to justify TFP's reasoning. I understand why. This is a great game (it's by far my favorite game), and so far, TFP have done lots of things that are very player-friendly.

You don't want to feel like you're playing a racist game, and I don't either. But I think the way to do that is to encourage TFP to take the racism out, not to justify it or joke about it.

But if they don't, then we're just going to have to accept that we are, in fact, playing a racist video game. What we do about it is up to us, of course. In my case I'll mod it out to the extent that I can.

 
You don't want to feel like you're playing a racist game, and I don't either. But I think the way to do that is to encourage TFP to take the racism out, not to justify it or joke about it.

But if they don't, then we're just going to have to accept that we are, in fact, playing a racist video game. What we do about it is up to us, of course. In my case I'll mod it out to the extent that I can.
Ok, sofar I found this a very interesting read about reality vs game lore. Please keep it that way and don't confuse inacuracy or ignorance with racism.
Don't get me wrong, I do strongly dislike the disneyfication of historical characters and events as much as I dislike racism but it is not the same.

 
I guess you missed that the Duke was a "casino Indian" before the war. That is the stereotype which can't happen in real life.
For an alternative.. He was a member of a group (the whole tribe or some subsect, doesn't matter). @%$# hit the fan. He could've been the cleaner lady, but had the gumption to raise in the ranks during the strife. What became of the group still uses the jargon of a casino as that's where it rose from, but it has nothing to do with the casino system anymore. Like the notorious biker clubs, ain't all that much about the biking, in reality. And honestly, casinos take Security rather seriously; it ain't too much of a fetch to have them well armed from the get go.

You don't want to feel like you're playing a racist game, and I don't either.
Yeah, I ain't getting into the politics. I wholeheartedly disagree, but I ain't taking a ban for it at this time.

 
In reality, someone like the Duke can't exist by law. Native gaming is federally regulated under the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. Under that act:

  • Native casinos are owned by the tribe, not by individual Native Americans. They cannot be privately owned.


But a ruthless person could make it so he is the indisputed leader of a tribe and thus own the casino. And put loyal people into all important positions. Then embezzle casino money for added profit. If the state gets a percentage, the rest is still going into his pockets.

Anyway, TFP can sidestep any problems with such a law when they say this is an alternative reality. Then such a law might not exist in that form. If there needs to be an explanation for parking meters all over the state the Reservation could have Las Vegas size or be near to a big city.

As a foreigner to the US I don't know how well established the "casino indian" stereotype still is, but the choice did feel a bit awkward to me. But this may be because an indian as main (good or bad) protagonist is so seldom in media while we are used to black people being main good or bad guy.

The game is meant to be humourous, plays on stereotypes are rather normal I would say. And one figure in one game is far from a series. You are seeing a coin toss with heads and conclude it will always show heads or the thrower made it show heads for a specific reason.

As a moderator I would add this: Yes, we have to tread carefully here. For this reason I removed 2 sentences from my post again. But discussing the meaning or messages of the game itself should be fine as long as we keep it to that narrow topic. "should" because my opinion could always be overruled by a majority of other moderators 😁

 
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You don't want to feel like you're playing a racist game, and I don't either. But I think the way to do that is to encourage TFP to take the racism out, not to justify it or joke about it.
Where could you find racism in a game where race is never mentioned and where the color of your character's skin doesn't affect anything?

There is no need to try to pull the owl onto the globe.

 
Where could you find racism in a game where race is never mentioned and where the color of your character's skin doesn't affect anything?

There is no need to try to pull the owl onto the globe.


Why would you need to mention race when race is shown? Or is there any doubt that the person in chieftain garb is supposed to be a native indian? 

A racist silent movie could easily be made by depicting deplorable acts all made by people of one race, and all the good acts by people of the other race. One of the most famous racist movies "Jud Süss" is AFAIK exactly that.

 
Why would you need to mention race when race is shown?
Still not joining the nonsense, but this thread got me thinking, what race is Jen? I can't decide whether to go with asian, native american, white, or something else.. could be any of those in my eyes.

 
I should make something clear. By "racist" I do not necessarily mean intentionally racist.

Also, calling it a "racist game" was probably harsh. It would be "a game which unironically has racial stereotypes in it."

I do not believe that the people at TFP who write this story are intentionally holding racist beliefs toward Native Americans, nor are they deliberately trying to get players to accept racist beliefs. I think they are probably just repeating racial stereotypes that are part of our culture.

That doesn't mean they're not racial stereotypes. It's why I wanted to point it out. Assuming TFP aren't consciously racist, they should want to change the story.

It shouldn't be a huge ask. There are plenty of ways to have the Duke be fundamentally the same kind of character while avoiding the "casino Indian" stereotype. Or, they could just add some "good guys" who are also Native American. Like, maybe the Duke and Noah are members of the same tribe, and this is an internal tribal conflict.

Also, regarding politics, racial discussions should not be political issues. It shouldn't matter who you voted for or which party you belong to. It should be about historical and cultural facts.

But if it is political, then that's even worse, because it means TFP are making a political statement with their story. I don't think they're trying to do that, so I don't want to turn this into a political discussion.

 
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That doesn't mean they're not racial stereotypes. It's why I wanted to point it out. Assuming TFP aren't consciously racist, they should want to change the story.
Racial stereotypes aren't wrong thou. Ask any race-swapped character of recent media, they're all essentially shallow stereotypes filling the role of another character. AC shadows with the added japanese water melons comes to mind... 😛 

 
I think they are probably just repeating racial stereotypes that are part of our culture.
Exclusively in your culture. I only learned in this thread that there is some kind of stereotype about Indians and casinos. For me, Indians are more associated with nature and alcoholism than with casinos. By the way, in my understanding, black people and watermelons are not interconnected at all. Since black people are associated with Africa, and watermelons with Central Asia.

There are different cultures and different stereotypes in the world. And what is a stereotype in one culture is nothing in another.

 
theFlu said:
Still not joining the nonsense, but this thread got me thinking, what race is Jen? I can't decide whether to go with asian, native american, white, or something else.. could be any of those in my eyes.


If I run into jen during the apocalypse she can be the green Amazon from Star Trek for all I care.

 
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