PC The downside of books - your thoughts?

I can appreciate that-

Tbh, I would be happy if we can get books back in any way, shape or form- Along with a whole lot of other things

 
I understand why the book thing was flawed but that was due to its lack of depth and simplicity. As others have said, just adding multiple ways to attain a recipe would have solved the issue, while at the same time adding fun gameplay.

Here are some ideas for finding the Forge Ahead book:

A blacksmith POI containing the book - Very hard to get early on unless you are very skilled/clever.

Rare blacksmith zombies - Higher chance they drop the book.

Crafting skill - You automatically learn the recipe at a certain level of the skill, great for people who don't want to go out fighting zombies all day. (obviously we aren't going back to learn by doing but this is an option that would have worked previously).

Finding a working forge - Automatically learn the recipe by using the forge for a certain amount of time.

You can use these for chem station and workbench also.

 
I always thought there should have been a time attached to books- For instance you would click to 'study' forge ahead and it would start a timer that would take X amount of time (with added modifiers from Int) that could range for hours to days depending on the complexity.
I agree that 'click and know' cheapens it but I think learning from books is realistic

Having the books made looting very fun and rewarding- Having the ability to keep that feature in tandem with a point unlock if you're unlucky and then adding in rare book drops that cannot be point learned and you bring back a but of the magic that I feel has been lost in this area.
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I like the idea of long timers on learning more than the insta-knowledge a lot. I still think that having them at all cheapens the feel of the game and the progression system when tied to weapons specifically. I could see books that grant a skill level which indirectly slightly improves weapons, assuming that the levels were infinite and able to be lost if you die.

I'm with you on rewarding loot though. For a long time I've been wondering why there are not unique and very rare 'legendary' items in the game. "Mad Mole's Machete, It's like a regular machete except it really gets in there yielding more meat and increased heavy attack damage compared to its counterpart."

I'm largely of the mind that loot should offer something different, rather than speed up or slow down the regular pace of the game substantially. Legendary items stand out to me as things that are neat, but not game breaking, and would also be unique to each playthrough for the most part. Thoughts?

 
The book system would best be used for non essential skills. For example, the mini bike for dummies book. The challenging part is determining what abilities are essential/non-essential.

Also some books should have pre-reqs. For example, you shouldnt be able to read and understand the mini bikes book without 5 intelligence.

These skills learned from books should be exclusive with no other way to learn them in order to retain their value.

 
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I like the idea of long timers on learning more than the insta-knowledge a lot. I still think that having them at all cheapens the feel of the game and the progression system when tied to weapons specifically. I could see books that grant a skill level which indirectly slightly improves weapons, assuming that the levels were infinite and able to be lost if you die.
I'm with you on rewarding loot though. For a long time I've been wondering why there are not unique and very rare 'legendary' items in the game. "Mad Mole's Machete, It's like a regular machete except it really gets in there yielding more meat and increased heavy attack damage compared to its counterpart."

I'm largely of the mind that loot should offer something different, rather than speed up or slow down the regular pace of the game substantially. Legendary items stand out to me as things that are neat, but not game breaking, and would also be unique to each playthrough for the most part. Thoughts?
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I agree 100% regarding legendary items, I would hope this is still on the radar for the pimps. I still remember MM talking about it in one of his dev videos.

If it's not, let's hope some clever modders can make custom unique items using the existing item mod system.

 
i dont really miss books at all tbh, the lamest part about books is that they were a one time consumable,and then after that, they are useless, just paper weights, only for selling, or scrapping for paper, and they didn't provide any buffs or boosts like the magazines do.. so they had no way of potentially being infinitely usable.

the only things books did was exist, that's all really, nothing useful or practical to warrant the item's continued existence in this game.

 
i dont really miss books at all tbh, the lamest part about books is that they were a one time consumable,and then after that, they are useless, just paper weights, only for selling, or scrapping for paper, and they didn't provide any buffs or boosts like the magazines do.. so they had no way of potentially being infinitely usable.
the only things books did was exist, that's all really, nothing useful or practical to warrant the item's continued existence in this game.
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To be honest this Magazines i removed from my Server it is just a stupid Fallout Bobblehead idea nothing more nothign less.

There is no real Logic that you read something and wow you learn something and are better but only for X minutes.

And the Books before yes sure 1 time usage after that Paper resource but Paper was never a rare Resource in this Game. And with Buffs it woudl be possible to add some sort of Buffs to the book if you already know the Recipe.

But again the Pimps took the easy route as they did very often before already.

Why invest Time and Dev Time to create some more Balanced and better Version of Learning if you can simply add a skilltree and let people learn everythign from killing Zombies much easier to make dont need so much time to think about it how it could work.

Currently working to bring this Books back to my Server and to remove most parts of this Fallout Clone Skillsystem , to bad its impossible to b ring back the old crafting system with quality from parts.

At same time really asking myself how long it will take before Pimps remove every way to bring back learning from books from the game so tey can be sure there is no way people dont play this GrindFallout Clone system .

And you say nothing useful or pratical this book are more useful as some stupid "click her to learn 10 new recipes " stuff we currently have.

 
To be honest this Magazines i removed from my Server it is just a stupid Fallout Bobblehead idea nothing more nothign less.There is no real Logic that you read something and wow you learn something and are better but only for X minutes.

And the Books before yes sure 1 time usage after that Paper resource but Paper was never a rare Resource in this Game. And with Buffs it woudl be possible to add some sort of Buffs to the book if you already know the Recipe.

But again the Pimps took the easy route as they did very often before already.

Why invest Time and Dev Time to create some more Balanced and better Version of Learning if you can simply add a skilltree and let people learn everythign from killing Zombies much easier to make dont need so much time to think about it how it could work.

Currently working to bring this Books back to my Server and to remove most parts of this Fallout Clone Skillsystem , to bad its impossible to b ring back the old crafting system with quality from parts.

At same time really asking myself how long it will take before Pimps remove every way to bring back learning from books from the game so tey can be sure there is no way people dont play this GrindFallout Clone system .

And you say nothing useful or pratical this book are more useful as some stupid "click her to learn 10 new recipes " stuff we currently have.
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Hey I get you dont like the current state of the game but dont assume their decisions are the "easy way out." What great games have you developed recently?

 
i dont really miss books at all tbh, the lamest part about books is that they were a one time consumable,and then after that, they are useless, just paper weights, only for selling, or scrapping for paper, and they didn't provide any buffs or boosts like the magazines do.. so they had no way of potentially being infinitely usable.
the only things books did was exist, that's all really, nothing useful or practical to warrant the item's continued existence in this game.
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Books would be no different then, you selling iron axes that can only hold 1-4 mods, when you can already make one that can hold 5. Same with any other item that loses it's value when you don't need it anymore in this type of game.

It would also be infinitely useful, just by selling it to get the dukes, or selling/giving it to another player.

 
Hey I get you dont like the current state of the game but dont assume their decisions are the "easy way out." What great games have you developed recently?
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Let me explain what i meant with the Easy way out.

Easy way out like , lets add the most simple way to make levelup and Recipe Learning and Skills and Perks simple.

If you want to add some sort of SkillSystem more interesting and more immersive as the current system you need to think more how you could make it work, how you can balance it and all this little Details.

If you add only a XP Value to each Zombie and add a Skilltree with XP Only Levelups you dont need to hink about stuff like immersion , Interesting Levelup System.

And the question is not how many great games i have developed or not thats a really stupid question , not everyone can risk job and income and try the Early Access thing. Or can you tell me since you are happy with the current System, how many great Games have you developed recently so you think your opinion is more important as my opinion?

And its not that i dont like the current State of the Game i dont like the Changes to many Mechanics and Immersion Parts of this game, i dont talk about bugs i dont talk about bad optimized or not added Features.

 
Magazines granting a flat EXP bonus would make them useful, in addition to the perk use. Even being able to read without gaining the perk (due to having it maxed out or not meeting the prequisites) would give a choice: use now for the exp boost or save for the perk boost, or sell for the dukes.

I like the thought of quests granting skill books as part of their loot.

Making a single-use schematic is another option, but you'd have to tweak come recipies. Have the schematic work without a bellows but be single-use, and have the perk teach you to craft the bellows instead and have that in the second Forge recipe. I don't think you can have mutliple recipies otherwise and have one learned and one unlearned.

 
Magazines granting a flat EXP bonus would make them useful, in addition to the perk use. Even being able to read without gaining the perk (due to having it maxed out or not meeting the prequisites) would give a choice: use now for the exp boost or save for the perk boost, or sell for the dukes.
I like the thought of quests granting skill books as part of their loot.

Making a single-use schematic is another option, but you'd have to tweak come recipies. Have the schematic work without a bellows but be single-use, and have the perk teach you to craft the bellows instead and have that in the second Forge recipe. I don't think you can have mutliple recipies otherwise and have one learned and one unlearned.
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Already tried that it is possibel to learn a recipe and unlearn another one .

my Idea for books would be more like this

You read the Forge book as example if you dont already know the recipe you learn the recipe if you already know it you get (in a skill from 0 to 100%) +2% to forging . Every 10 % you can forge 1 Item Tier better so we would need 10 different tiers.

At same time if you forge you get with each craftet item 0.05 % to forging but not for everything. if you only smelt metal you get nothing if you only craft forged iron you get nothing if you craft tools, weapons or wepaon parts you get this 0.05% to forging skill.

The only Skills for usable Skillpoints would be the Main Skills like Perception, Strenght and the other main Skills .

Everything else is Learning by doing and learning from recipe Books and Schematics. But no Bobblehead like Skillboosts or Learn cooking with Zombie Head smashing.

 
Make it a gamestage thing:Increase a books's/gate-item's drop chance with days passed, or better –days stayed alive. (NOT zombies killed.)

Offer alternative route using the new quest system, for those who still are unlucky:

Do a certain amount of missions from specialist NPCs, which in turn dispense rare tools, or part with the needed knowledge.

That would be the failsafe, that's more fun/engaging/varied/immersive than "I need x points to get to level y to unlock z".
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This was already done a few alphas ago in association with the player's level, so that system was already in place. The way it would work is the rarest books would be uber rare early game with a less rare percentage late game.

 
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Let me explain what i meant with the Easy way out.
Easy way out like , lets add the most simple way to make levelup and Recipe Learning and Skills and Perks simple.

If you want to add some sort of SkillSystem more interesting and more immersive as the current system you need to think more how you could make it work, how you can balance it and all this little Details.

If you add only a XP Value to each Zombie and add a Skilltree with XP Only Levelups you dont need to hink about stuff like immersion , Interesting Levelup System.

And the question is not how many great games i have developed or not thats a really stupid question , not everyone can risk job and income and try the Early Access thing. Or can you tell me since you are happy with the current System, how many great Games have you developed recently so you think your opinion is more important as my opinion?

And its not that i dont like the current State of the Game i dont like the Changes to many Mechanics and Immersion Parts of this game, i dont talk about bugs i dont talk about bad optimized or not added Features.
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Never said my opinion was more important. The point I was trying to make is what may seem easy to you may actually be difficult. Unless your a video game developer, I don't think anyone can make that claim.

So if you want their attention, I'd suggest leaving the rhetoric at the door. I know if I was one of TFPs, I wouldnt be as open to listening to someone calling my work "took the easy way out." By the way, I have a back ground in programming so I have a basic understanding of software design.

 
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I think it's much better to just be able to do all the things without books and just do them really ♥♥♥♥ty for a while until you get better at it by doing those things a lot.
Should be able to loot most of the things you needed books for in various 'conditions' and then improve them if you've the learnin' to do such a thing.

Books and mags both cheapen the game to me, would be much better off without them.

Maybe just a generic book that increases your intellect slightly as a rare loot, but barring crafting skills in them I was never a fan of. "I can't take the bullets out of the gun dear, we didn't find the pistol book yet" -Wyatt Derp
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I would be perfectly fine with this in a learn by doing environment. If by crafting mechanical items I got better at mechanics, that would be a good replacement for books.

 
And the Books before yes sure 1 time usage after that Paper resource but Paper was never a rare Resource in this Game.
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I enjoyed how it worked in one of the previous Alphas (14 or 15?) when re-reading books gave you points. Like for example, if you'd already read the pistol book once, then every time you found and read another one, you would get 1 point in gun making skills.

I was a little sad when they removed that, because as you say, paper is common, but then I discovered in A16 that you get quite a lot of barter skill for selling them, so that was fine too.

 
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Never said my opinion was more important. The point I was trying to make is what may seem easy to you may actually be difficult. Unless your a video game developer, I don't think anyone can make that claim.
So if you want their attention, I'd suggest leaving the rhetoric at the door. I know if I was one of TFPs, I wouldnt be as open to listening to someone calling my work "took the easy way out." By the way, I have a back ground in programming so I have a basic understanding of software design.
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I never said i dont have any background in programming, and if you have basic understanding of software design then you should understand that between not easy to write the code for something and not easy to create a good interesting game mechanic are 2 different things.

i can write the most complicated code and still have a bad game mechanic only cause how the pimps wrote this system is possible not the easy way does not mean that the entire mechanic itself is not the easy way.

And about attention. Problem is this attention is not really existent, in another Thread madmole asked me for example and told me to mod the stuff i dont like , i answered him and included 2 questiosn about missing features to mod everything i dont like and asked him if there are not documentet parameters i could use for that.

Answer no chance he answered other posts but not the answer he asked me for. Same in other threads.

The only real attention you get is that someone Roland, Madmole other Dev or other Player tell you to shut up, play something else, learn to play, adapt, that you simply dont understand how this game works or that you can mod it.

 
Becoming a maxed out player can trigger "The Big Quest".

Eventually you learn a secret, that requires you to build a huge AIRSHIP (16 engines, 15,000 cloth, 20,000 gas, ect)... So you can travel to NEW YORK as that is the last major (known) stronghold on earth.

The character will find out being maxed out in Navezgane was just being "The big fish in a small pond", as it's just being average in New York.

Of course your airship crashes when you arrive... :)

 
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