PC The big crying thread for 17.2 Economy

I needed 3-4 Machines to get the food i needed in my current 4 days @90 Minute game
Without harvesting cars my money would maybe not enough
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o.O Animals and eggs are plentiful... I havent even needed to open a vending machine. 1 hour days, day 3 5 extra bacon and eggs and 80 meat. Only using a couple bacon and eggs per day. (The trader even had 30 meat that I didnt even consider buying, no need for it) Hunger is to the point where it might as well not even be in, in needs to be harder, not easier imho

But not less animals, maybe more of a threat from animals. They are the only real threat out in the open so i dont want less of them thats for sure.

 
Yeaa, still the same thing

30 Threads about 30 Issues and in all 30 Threads the answer is "Just spend 1-3 Skillpoints"

For me it would be silly to spend a skillpoint i never again use after the first week.

1077 Hours A17, and i cooked arround a half dozend Bacon and eggs

 
Yeaa, still the same thing30 Threads about 30 Issues and in all 30 Threads the answer is "Just spend 1-3 Skillpoints"

For me it would be silly to spend a skillpoint i never again use after the first week.

1077 Hours A17, and i cooked arround a half dozend Bacon and eggs
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That makes absolutely no sense to me. First point in cooking lets you make teas, coffee, bacon an eggs. Something you can use the entire playthrough. It is the single most cost effective 1 skill point you can spend. Bacon and eggs is a huge jump up from charred meat. And all you need to survive forever without spending any dukes. (which you will need for other things now that its not OP)

 
Simple example, week 2, i drive arround the map and i have hunger/thirst what chance is higher

A: That i spend some (of the many i have) coins in a Vending machine and have food and drinks

B: I make me a Forge, make me a cooking pot, make me some glasses, hunt a animal, search water, and cook me a meal with drinks

 
Simple example, week 2, i drive arround the map and i have hunger/thirst what chance is higherA: That i spend some (of the many i have) coins in a Vending machine and have food and drinks

B: I make me a Forge, make me a cooking pot, make me some glasses, hunt a animal, search water, and cook me a meal with drinks
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Right because cooking pots are so rare, you need a forge to get one.

And you have to purposefully hunt not just stop your vehicle and shoot an arrow every once in a while when you hear one

I know sarcasm doesn't convey well through typing but if you cant tell, this is sarcasm.

(having too many coins to not need to play the game is why it got nerfed btw)

 
Have never used traders and never needed them ,so a coin nerf is no biggie. You can easily get all you need without ever going near a trader. Traipsing 3-5km to make a few coins to buy stuff you find anyway holds no great appeal(for me) .

It shouldnt be easy to get all these things, if only to avoid the cries of "bored after day blah!". Its about survival and scavenging and making the most of whatever situation you find yourself in. Farmers, builders, nomads all play in different ways and we all have to adapt to changes in game constantly. Over ,under ,around ,or through theres always a way to be found.

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I use them for Iron/Steel tools and nice early game boosts then that's it. Probably rarely visit them again till late game for bullets ofc. I agree with the above why would you live on anything other than Bacon and Eggs. They are so plentiful. And Red Tea is awesome. Why would you ever drink water? One point in this perk completely removes any need to put points into Slow Metabolism. Now that one is a wasted point.

 
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Please understand me right. The mood of the topic was not really serious, its not so that i sit here crying in front of my PC.

But as we all know, somewone would have assumed that, so or so.

Its simply so that you can play the game on many different ways. And in a few dozend games i played in a17 i had only 3 Gardens and i can only remember one case i learned cooking.

Simply because it made no sense for my gamestyle.

If Cooking is really a MUST HAVE, and it is no kind of Gate,.... well then this perk should be removed completely. Because it make no sense.

But thats not how i perceive it currently. As i said, wrenching cars for food the first days work in my current game. In a game without a town next to a trader it would maybe not work. For this case i think we need a moneymaker for people who dont want to perk cooking.

And there i see not much options

*

M̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶r̶a̶w̶ ̶e̶g̶g̶s̶ ̶f̶a̶r̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶n̶s̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶

...

During i wrote this post here i came to the conclusion that the best sollution is simply to add money to the trash bags.

So much that if you loot all bags on a average tour you have so moch money that you can buy enough food and water. And a bit more in the Registers.

 
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-snip-

If Cooking is really a MUST HAVE, and it is no kind of Gate,.... well then this perk should be removed completely. Because it make no sense.

-snip_

During i wrote this post here i came to the conclusion that the best sollution is simply to add money to the trash bags.

So much that if you loot all bags on a average tour you have so moch money that you can buy enough food and water. And a bit more in Register
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Nobody saying cooking tree is must have. I was just saying 1 point (1 skillpoint!) is so worth it, unless bartering is just so OP that you have so much money you cant spend it all.

I suspect it is being nerfed for this exact reason, it was too easy to just bypass much of the game (hunting, farming, gathering) completely just by becoming a millionaire with little effort.

Yes you are right that when bartering is OPest thing you can do for items and xp then yes there is no need for spending that 1 point in cooking. But if you play normally and not totally abuse the trader 1 point in cooking a no-brainer.

I dont agree at all that player should be able to thrive on food from dukes from day 1. I think hunger starting out should be more punishing then it is, not super easy just find a sink and a trader and you eat forever. Economy should be to where the food is there in an emergency but not worth it to live off the machine. (you will need to money for other things)

At that point it isnt cooking skill that should be removed, just remove the entire eating/hunger feature completely because there is no reason for it. It is just fluff if trading is all you need to do for it.

 
I guess i try the next days a small modlet. If it is like i imagine it a normal player would find not much more coins.

Only if a player focus on coins i think he should be able to get find enough.

 
I dont agree at all that player should be able to thrive on food from dukes from day 1.
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I think the player should absolutely be able to do this. Two words: opportunity cost. If a player wants to waste dukes on food he is missing out on some really great early game boosts that could have been bought instead (cheap mods for example) . It's a hugely inefficient way to feed yourself.

Economy should be to where the food is there in an emergency but not worth it to live off the machine. (you will need to money for other things)
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That is absolutely where the game is right now. Buying food is a huge waste. I think I have done it once ever in A17, and that was when I lost my entire food chest through stupidity and was a tiny bit desperate. Never felt the need at any other time. It's emergencies only as far as I am concerned. Far too many important things to buy early game before I'd waste dukes on food.

Don't under-estimate Red Tea from Master Chef 1. It reduces your max stamina loss considerably, so in a round about way you would still profit as you'd need to eat a lot less. You really want to make the switch from Water to Red Tea as early as possible as it will really snowball for you, however you chose to feed yourself.

 
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Please understand me right. The mood of the topic was not really serious, its not so that i sit here crying in front of my PC.But as we all know, somewone would have assumed that, so or so.

Its simply so that you can play the game on many different ways. And in a few dozend games i played in a17 i had only 3 Gardens and i can only remember one case i learned cooking.

Simply because it made no sense for my gamestyle.

If Cooking is really a MUST HAVE, and it is no kind of Gate,.... well then this perk should be removed completely. Because it make no sense.

But thats not how i perceive it currently. As i said, wrenching cars for food the first days work in my current game. In a game without a town next to a trader it would maybe not work. For this case i think we need a moneymaker for people who dont want to perk cooking.

And there i see not much options

*

M̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶r̶a̶w̶ ̶e̶g̶g̶s̶ ̶f̶a̶r̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶n̶s̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶

...

During i wrote this post here i came to the conclusion that the best sollution is simply to add money to the trash bags.

So much that if you loot all bags on a average tour you have so moch money that you can buy enough food and water. And a bit more in the Registers.
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So it simply boils down to gamestyle. You prefer eating canned food using the money you get buying and selling things. That's fine. You can play however you like in your game. The problem is when TFP nerfs something or makes changes to the game that makes your playstyle more difficult which is what we're seeing now with traders. In that case you either have to work smarter/harder or change your playstyle just a tad. Another option is to complain to the TFP till the cows come home hoping they undo those changes or at least tweak them more in your favor.

Most of us have already adapted from the change from a16.x to a17.x and I'm pretty sure you've adapted as well. So why not use 1 or 2 skill points to cooking? You can say it's for backup/emergencies. TFP purposedly added that feature so it is not considered cheating.

I always get my cooking to at least level 2 (or the level that allows you to make stews). Once you get a farm with mushrooms, corn and potatoes you're pretty much set for the remainder of the game since you can make vegetable stew with those veggies (and water). In my world I have a huge farm which produces a full stack of shrooms, corn and potatoes every 3 days (based on 1 hour days). My farm also produces all the other farmable things as well but that's besides the point. The point is the cooking perk is very useful when you have no money and it is especially useful if you want to focus on everything else other than food. Cooking is not a MUST HAVE but it is very useful. This applies to the other skills as well to make your life easier. For example, you don't need the bartering perk but it reduces/raises price to benefit and at higher level gives you access to more goods to buy. You could do it the old fashion by finding them, killing zombies or through air drops but why make your life harder when the game gives an option to make things easier. This is the case with the cooking perk.

I do agree traders needed tweaking as I have over 300K in dukes and about 20 tier 6 solar cells just sitting around doing nothing. In 17.1 they cost 44K to 60K to purchase. I made soo much money by selling iron/steel armor.

If you still want to play the same gamestyle then I suggest doing more trader quests.

PS - I collect canned food just for the fun of it to see how many I can get.

 
cooking pot is easy to find, 1 point in masterchef gives red tea/bacon and eggs. There is always at least 1 animal near start point and you never need anything else. Farm/hunt/scavenge gives all the food you ever need. Rabbits and chickens are plentiful and easy to get, pigs are everywhere. Bears and wolves are a bonus and plenty of bones for glue.

 
If Cooking is really a MUST HAVE, and it is no kind of Gate,.... well then this perk should be removed completely.
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wtf? No, there should be early "pick me, duh"s too, unless TFP wants to separate ~character class picking~ and intro/tutorial perks from the stuff you pursue later into their own dialogs.

Is it really so offensive that your first game day and week are basically a tutorial you repeat until you understand the tradeoffs in the available perks, and there are some really obviously good things to pick so newbies can get used to the mechanics?

If you don't want to buy all your food pre-prepared, somebody on the team should learn to cook. Is "duh" really too harsh a response to that? Maybe not everybody on the team needs it, is that really so difficult?

 
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I agree about red tea, good stuff. When I said "not thrive on food from dukes" I meant more along the lines of buy all the food and still easily afford other starter stuff he might want. Then continue to live off the machine and easily buy everything else he wants or needs which was where we were at before 17.2. I think we are on the same page.

The balance is better at least as far as I can tell, so far. Starting out, and perking for trading I was able to afford some decent stuff starter stuff, but had to work for it a bit and spend points which I see as pretty good balance wise.

 
Seeming every new version has had tweeks and changes to traders/economy, and the devs made a thread to get feedback on trader balance not long ago seems to me economy/trading is important to them. Looting has taken a hit, and is not as amazing as it once was. (its no longer required, no recipe books, nothing you can only loot and not craft, rarer high quality)
With additions of quests, and eventually factions and NPCs I feel like traders will become a huge center piece, and looting will be mainly just for those rare legendary items we have yet to see (unless they fix things and give looting more purpose again)

Manufacturing? for what purpose? the only things you need to craft in high numbers is ammo and building supplies. If you are manufacturing anything else its... here it comes.. to sell to trader.

The game is a survival game, true. With RPG, tower defense, fps, horror, a lot of elements from all kinds of genres. People who dont like trading can simply not trade. Balance of it shouldn't concern them in any way.
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I agree with this guy ^ if you dont like how the trader is just don't use it in a17.1. I do feel they went a little to nuts on the price of things, everything seems worth less than half what it used to be just about.

 
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