PC Survey on PvP Players

Do you have the Steam 7d2d PvP achievments?

  • Yes, I recieved them for playing 7d2d PvP.

    Votes: 3 7.5%

  • Yes, I recieved them for playing a 7d2d overhaul/mod with NPCs.

    Votes: 10 25.0%

  • Yes, I recieved them via other actions, but not through real PvP play. (cooperative kill sessions,

    Votes: 14 35.0%

  • No

    Votes: 13 32.5%
  • Total voters
    40
Grandpa Minion said:
pvp used to be the end game once a player was good enough to go out and to it, raid and ect...

with that fizzled out players have no idea what they are meant to do most of the time. Also without mods there are almost no popular servers the only active servers are modded.

Since the devs do not go anywhere with 7d2d in pvp they need to back off and give the coders and modders workshop support so overhauls like factions and other ones for pvp that have been discussed can be done.
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This doesn't answer my question.

You give me background on why people want PvP. There's no debate there. Then you speculate that the Devs are keeping your team from making modlets, which is demonstrably false. In fact, the Devs implemented features that make modding possible. As you have stated, your modders know how to make all the changes you want, but they don't because Workshop support isn't implemented.

So, again, please elaborate. Is there something specific about HOW your modders think the Workshop downloads modlets that is important?

 
Grandpa Minion said:
can you not at least realize the importance it will be to coders and modders to be able to work with the single player client?
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Look, I'm a sympathetic ear even though I'm not a PvP player and I too look forward to Workshop support.

I completely understand that you need to modify the client. I also know TFP provides support for modlets that include code changes. Folks modify the client all the time. We talk about it in the "Game Modification" part of the forums. Your coders and modders are likely aware of that. You've told us you have modders that know how to modify the client.

You claim the only hold up is Workshop support. I know that folks are distributing modlets without Workshop support. (I do it.) I ask the following question hoping to get a TECHNICAL, or some-what technical, reason. We've even given you a couple of possible, viable answers. I don't know how to lay it out any more plainly.

Is there something specific about HOW your modders think the Workshop downloads modlets that is important?

 
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zztong said:
You seem to be saying that client-side modification is not possible. Is that what you think?
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not the case, what i think is alot of pvp coders have stopped doing anticheat for this game. The anticheat mods that do is exist is going on two - three years old...

its the same story with all of them, when i ask why they are not doing anticheat anymore their reply is "we need workshop support"

example: this is just one of many examples of conversations i have had with coders...

image.png

 
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Grandpa Minion said:
not the case, what i think is alot of pvp coders have stopped doing anticheat for this game. The anticheat mods that do is exist is going on two - three years old...

its the same story with all of them, when i ask why they are not doing anticheat anymore their reply is "we need workshop support"
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So you're relaying what you've been told. They didn't elaborate further. You don't have anything more to tell us.

 
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zztong said:
So you're relaying what you've been told. They didn't elaborate further. You don't have anything more to tell us.
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im not a coder or never claimed to be a modder, im a 7d2d admin that has been running a 7d2d server for many many years. During that time ive been blessed to have got to meet alot of great people some who are coders and modders. So yeah they tell me things when i ask.

 
Grandpa Minion said:
im not a coder or never claimed to be a modder, im a 7d2d admin that has been running a 7d2d server for many many years. During that time ive been blessed to have got to meet alot of great people some who are coders and modders. So yeah they tell me things when i ask.
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Okay, that makes sense. It's cool, though it was getting kind of frustrating going around in circles. If your coder/modders want to talk more about their needs, there is a place for that on the forums.

I can't explain why they have been telling you Workshop support is needed. It isn't TECHNICALLY needed to make client-side modlets possible.

Workshop support could make distribution and installation easier for your players, but you're not helpless in this arena. You could bundle together one or more client-side modlets for your players to manually install. This will come with some PRACTICAL issues:

  1. Your players may have trouble manually installing modlets in the correct place even though it is just a matter of copying directories/files to a Mods folder.
  2. Your players will have to disable EAC in order for your modlets with code to run.
  3. Unless your coders/modders implement something to verify the state of the client, you can't keep your players from installing other modlets that might enable them to cheat or refusing to install your modlets.

Note that having Workshop support likely will ONLY address issue #1.

When we do get Workshop support, I think it would be nice if game servers could communicate with the client to tell the client which modlets to enable (and perhaps download). Perhaps it could also indicate what additional modlets are permitted, such as if a player want a modlet that changed the UI. But Workshop support is further out on the calendar and we don't know what features TFP has in mind, if they've even thought about it. That's not a PvE vs PvP thing, as PvE servers would enjoy those features too.

 
Grandpa Minion said:
not the case, what i think is alot of pvp coders have stopped doing anticheat for this game. The anticheat mods that do is exist is going on two - three years old...

its the same story with all of them, when i ask why they are not doing anticheat anymore their reply is "we need workshop support"

example: this is just one of many examples of conversations i have had with coders...

View attachment 34205
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You keep tossing this out like it means something. It doesn't. You can right now create client-side anti-cheat mods, and code them so that they run on the client, and have to be installed in order to play on a server. Just like 90% of the current overhaul mods work. The only difference Workshop makes is a venue to push the mods onto the client computers. That is it.

The issue is that you aren't going to get 98% of your PvP players to install a local mod that will absolutely prevent them from cheating. The second part of this issue is that you won't be able to have your awesome player counts when people have to install mods themselves because Workshop doesn't exist yet. That is the actual elephant in the room. Not that Workshop support is missing.

 
Workshop isn't necessary at all. Based on that quote, that specific person just doesn't feel like making such mods before Workshop support is added.  That doesn't mean they can't.  It just means they won't. 

Workshop is a convenience.  That's all.  And you aren't the only one who wants it.  Anyone using mods would probably be happy to have it.  But it isn't required.

 
Grandpa Minion said:
What is also false equivalency is peoples thoughts that mods scue the numbers but what they fail to realize console players have been around many many many years to. The last i checked mods are still not available on console- xbox, ps5. Thats just a fact but reality is fixn to hit all you folks in the face when these console players finally start to get to join dedicated, It wouldnt surprise me at all over the years if console has sold more of the 7d2d accounts than steam has during that time. The other thing is everyone knows console players luv to play pvp, once they get their mouths wet on 7d2d pvp this forum is going blow up with pvp players.
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I promise you this is not going to happen. It didn´t happen all the years since the first console version was released (that was A15) and it won´t happen now with V1.0, they have the new version like 10 months now and there is no sign of them asking for PvP fixes. Also Console vs PC in PvP? Most people play with controller on console and they have aim assist  (as a built in feature, not as a cheat).

E: I just looked at the global trophies for 7 days to die. On the old PS4 version, only 1.96% have killed more than 100 players. (they had different goals for the achievments in the old version) 

On the PS5 it´s more. 9.96% have the kill 25 other players. (They already know about PvP and yet no sign of them) It´s a lot more than on PC, yes, but still just a minority.

So no, there will be no flood of console players asking for PvP fixes, they would be here by now already. And same as on PC there is a good number that only does it for the achievement or in PvE Coop for more challenge in fights.

Xbox Series S players can´t play on large maps so a good part of Xbox players won´t even be able to participate in PvP crossplay. Unless you only want to play on 6K maps.

And adding workshop when the game is still in development and gets new content is a bad idea. Look at Conan Exiles, it´s a live service game with regular updates all the time. The workshop is a hot mess of abandoned mods. It´s actually annoying. So even though i do want workshop for 7 days to die, i really appreciate that TFP will not add it until the game is actually done for exactly that reason.

Save yourself a lot of frustration and wait for workshop (if this really helps, i doubt it tbh) or move on to Rust or DayZ meanwhile.

 
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Grandpa Minion said:
What is also false equivalency is peoples thoughts that mods scue the numbers but what they fail to realize console players have been around many many many years to. The last i checked mods are still not available on console- xbox, ps5. Thats just a fact but reality is fixn to hit all you folks in the face when these console players finally start to get to join dedicated, It wouldnt surprise me at all over the years if console has sold more of the 7d2d accounts than steam has during that time. The other thing is everyone knows console players luv to play pvp, once they get their mouths wet on 7d2d pvp this forum is going blow up with pvp players.
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And?

What does this mean to the discussion at hand?  Do you believe that if all of a sudden there is a rush of console owners buying this game that all of a sudden TFP are going to change this to a PvP game?  Is that how game development works?  Decide on a game type, then switch it at the end of the development cycle because a loud minority of players want it changed to the way they want it?

 
BFT2020 said:
And?

Do you believe that if all of a sudden there is a rush of console owners buying this game that all of a sudden TFP are going to change this to a PvP game?  
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no thats not what i believe , we all already know pimps are not going to change this game to pvp, However i do believe without a doubt the time they have spent on bandits and other features in the past like ziplines and other stuff added and removed from the game that never panned out they could have fixed multiple bugs by now that plague pvp for years, I much rather see them fix what already exists than them adding features they have no clue about when it comes to pvp in this game. 

 
Grandpa Minion said:
with thousands of players relying on our server to have a place to play for pvp
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You're telling me that 1000s of players will spend hours breaking through the landclaimed wall of some offline player's base but they won't spend 30 seconds blowing up this poll to prove to TFP that the PvP players want to be heard? Send them over. They've LBD'ed creating alt accounts as well so this should be a cakewalk-- easier than sending noobs into death spirals when they respawn near their backpacks!  Let's see the bars flip on this poll!!

 
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Grandpa Minion said:
moving on is not an option, with thousands of players relying on our server to have a place to play for pvp 7d2d im here to the end.

just like ive been here over the last 10 years.
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Setting up a dedicated server isn´t exactly rocket science. If you leave and they really need replacement for your server, someone will set up a new one. That can be done in a few minutes.

 
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Grandpa Minion said:
moving on is not an option, with thousands of players relying on our server to have a place to play for pvp 7d2d im here to the end.

just like ive been here over the last 10 years.
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No, the few hundred players you have will easily migrate to another PvP server. There are enough of them around. I already provided a list in this thread even. 71 other servers to be exact.

Grandpa Minion said:
no thats not what i believe , we all already know pimps are not going to change this game to pvp, However i do believe without a doubt the time they have spent on bandits and other features in the past like ziplines and other stuff added and removed from the game that never panned out they could have fixed multiple bugs by now that plague pvp for years, I much rather see them fix what already exists than them adding features they have no clue about when it comes to pvp in this game. 
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Then why waste your time here championing for something you know you shouldn't expect. Especially when you have similarly shown that you have no clue about a number of subjects you pretend to know something about. At least TFP isn't pretending.

 
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