PC Survey on PvP Players

[Grandpa Minion]

All the energy you waste on discussing this again and again could have gone into modding the game to your needs.

Thats not even the case.. 7d2d client sends ways to much data to the server and without workshop support coders and modders can not fix the pvp issues that need to be fixed client side. There have been a bunch of great pvp coders over the years and it always ends up the same story. "we can not fix what needs to be fixed client side without workshop support."

 

[SylenThunder]

Thats not even the case.. 7d2d client sends ways to much data to the server and without workshop support coders and modders can not fix the pvp issues that need to be fixed client side. There have been a bunch of great pvp coders over the years and it always ends up the same story. "we can not fix what needs to be fixed client side without workshop support."

Workshop support isn't going to change that any more than the current modding ability can.  Workshop isn't the magic tool you seem to think it is.

 

[Adam the Waster]

Does shooting my brother count 

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

And what exactly can workshop do that a mod that needs to be manually installed can´t do? I guess they mean that people are more likely to not play if they have to install manually. Because to my knowledge the steam workshop is just an automated mod installer nothing more. 

But hey just two more years until workshop support. Assuming we see V2.0 really this year. If not more likely 3 years

 

[Dead Smarty]

Does shooting my brother count 

Only in real life.

 

[zztong]

Workshop support isn't going to change that any more than the current modding ability can.  Workshop isn't the magic tool you seem to think it is.

Right, workshop support isn't a reason why they cannot mod the client.

In trying to translate Grandpa into reality, I'm just guessing why a modder might say something like that is they worry about how to distribute and update a modlet to a server's player base. Right now that's manual and I know from my own experiences with distributing a modlet not all players can successfully install one manually without assistance. With workshop support it could be possible for a server to tell the client which modlets to install and for the client to download those modlets from the Workshop.

It might also become possible for the client to associate certain modlets with certain games so it could enable/disable them on a server-by-server, game-by-game basis, which would be convenient for players in more than one game.

 

[YourMirror]

Right, workshop support isn't a reason why they cannot mod the client.

In trying to translate Grandpa into reality, I'm just guessing why a modder might say something like that is they worry about how to distribute and update a modlet to a server's player base. Right now that's manual and I know from my own experiences with distributing a modlet not all players can successfully install one manually without assistance. With workshop support it could be possible for a server to tell the client which modlets to install and for the client to download those modlets from the Workshop.

It might also become possible for the client to associate certain modlets with certain games so it could enable/disable them on a server-by-server, game-by-game basis, which would be convenient for players in more than one game.

I think they just have the wrong expectation of using Workshop mods will not breach EAC so they dont have to disable it and can still join EAC enabled servers. Which on PVP, as we all know, is must with the amount of hacks being used to "be the best PVP gamer". I think thats the reason and not some logistic problem. But it doesn't work that way. Any harmony patch (and that what Grandpa is talking about) will get you to the non EAC realm. Deployed by Workshop or not.

 

[BFT2020]

How many years have people been asking for bandits? I've litterally watched thousands of players beg, plead and waste the tfp time asking for them. The reasson they do this is simple because everyone knows pve is no challenge. However. in pvp guess what? Bandits already exists by players and there is no game bandit that can compete like a real human. Also if the tfp pimps had spent 1000th of that time they been working on bandits they could have already added many pvp features. fixed many bugs and at the very least could have made alot of people happy , Instead we all are setting here with no bandits or pvp features. Yes im talking years waiting.....

That's a false equivalency.

Bandits have been discussed a lot by the developers.  They are part of the plan for this game.  Developers are working on the AI code for their behavior, the artists have done the renderings of what they will look like, the modelers are working on bringing the artistic vision to life in the game, they have even started adding coding into the base game in preparation for them.  Internal builds have been done to start testing them.  And most importantly, they are part of the V3.0 update per the roadmap.

What is not talked a lot by the developers?  This being a CoD like PvP game.  Instead, they have talked about this being a Co-Op PvE game pitting you and a group of survivors against an AI enemy (zombies / animals today, bandits down the road).  So their priorities are not solving PvP issues - they don't care about spawn camping or newbie killing.  They don't care that a feature for the PvE element contradicts the PvP playstyle.  Their focus is on the PvE element of this game.

Why would I as a PvE player want to play against humans in this game?  It is not setup as a PvP game in the first place, and the intent of this game is not to make it into a PvP game.  If I want to play PvP, I will go with an actual PvP game on tactical base servers.  I been a serious gamer for 30 years now.  When I first started out playing, I did a lot of PvP gameplay, but it was always with team based games and tactical servers (servers where you are required to meet the game objectives and not rack up your K count).  I don't play a game just to get a challenge, I play games I enjoy playing and have fun. 

 

[Grandpa Minion]

What is also false equivalency is peoples thoughts that mods scue the numbers but what they fail to realize console players have been around many many many years to. The last i checked mods are still not available on console- xbox, ps5. Thats just a fact but reality is fixn to hit all you folks in the face when these console players finally start to get to join dedicated, It wouldnt surprise me at all over the years if console has sold more of the 7d2d accounts than steam has during that time. The other thing is everyone knows console players luv to play pvp, once they get their mouths wet on 7d2d pvp this forum is going blow up with pvp players.

 

[SylenThunder]

What is also false equivalency is peoples thoughts that mods scue the numbers but what they fail to realize console players have been around many many many years to. The last i checked mods are still not available on console- xbox, ps5. Thats just a fact but reality is fixn to hit all you folks in the face when these console players finally start to get to join dedicated, It wouldnt surprise me at all over the years if console has sold more of the 7d2d accounts than steam has during that time. The other thing is everyone knows console players luv to play pvp, once they get their mouths wet on 7d2d pvp this forum is going blow up with pvp players.

If the forum was going to blow up with PvP players, it would have already. Especially several years ago when we had the survey regarding it. The one where less than 1% of you showed up to the party. Back then there were more than five PvP players visiting the forum too.

If your PvP players were actually going to behave the way you say, they would be here already. They would have been here for a long time.  If Console players "luv to play pvp" so much, they would already be posting in the console section about it. And they aren't.

And the icing on the cake.....  Even if you somehow now manage to convince a handful of people to come out here and speak up, it is going to fall on deaf ears.  Because we are already very familiar with the malicious tactics employed by people like yourself and those you are inappropriately promoting.  If we suddenly had a hundred people show up to promote PvP, I can guarantee you that at least 80% of those "people" are actually just one or two people using alt accounts and fake IP addresses. Though the new spam filters should slow them down a good bit.

One of these days you are going to need to take off your rose colored glasses, and face reality.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

yeah with console joining dedicated soon i estimate at least 2 million of them will pass through our server throught out the next 10 years ill be sure to let them know to give you a like.

 

[theFlu]

once they get their mouths wet on 7d2d pvp this forum is going blow up with pvp players.

We can hope, but I doubt it. The people aren't actually there. Note, I wouldn't mind pvp in this environment; if it had any chance of working. For pvp, in recent years I've mainly played some 4v4 arenas and battlegrounds in a wow-clone (swtor).. obvious difference being that those games are pure pvp, not gankfests like a sandbox usually ends up as. But quite similar in nature, mostly "kill all" tactics, some "capture a point" type stuff. But I do like 7dtd and the fortress building enabled here might be interesting for pvp, so I might give it an honest go regardless.

But the design just doesn't support pvp; "trust the client" (speedhacks, wallhacks, duping, whatnot), laggy netcode (even the NPCs are all over the place and that's over just one hop), choppy performance causing more issues ... it'd be easier to write a new version of the game than to "fix" this one for proper pvp. And the lack of pvp design focus of course neuters any semblance of balance etc. It just ain't going to happen. It's not a good experience, no matter how much we wanted it to be.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

There is already plans by pvp coders and modders in place and have been in place for years to rewrite a factions overhaul mod for 7d2d that is going do wonders for 7d2d pvp. The only reason the overhaul mod hasn't been done yet is like i said earlier "workshop" support is needed to stop most of the client side issues, once the coders and modders get what they need to do the overhaul alot of stuff that plagues pvp will be fixed.

 

[SylenThunder]

There is already plans by pvp coders and modders in place and have been in place for years to rewrite a factions overhaul mod for 7d2d that is going do wonders for 7d2d pvp. The only reason the overhaul mod hasn't been done yet is like i said earlier "workshop" support is needed to stop most of the client side issues, once the coders and modders get what they need to do the overhaul alot of stuff that plagues pvp will be fixed.

Again, Workshop support has almost no impact on those mods. It is not "needed" for them to do anything. Workshop is just a deployment tool.

 

[zztong]

There is already plans by pvp coders and modders in place and have been in place for years to rewrite a factions overhaul mod for 7d2d that is going do wonders for 7d2d pvp. The only reason the overhaul mod hasn't been done yet is like i said earlier "workshop" support is needed to stop most of the client side issues, once the coders and modders get what they need to do the overhaul alot of stuff that plagues pvp will be fixed.

I wish you would elaborate on why you think that workshop support is needed. What function of the workshop is required? Please, be specific. If I'm overlooking some capability I'd certainly admit it. It might even be a capability that I'd advocate for.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

I wish you would elaborate on why you think that workshop support is needed. What function of the workshop is required? Please, be specific. If I'm overlooking some capability I'd certainly admit it. It might even be a capability that I'd advocate for.

some things serverside is impossible to detect, with workshop support players can download patchs by modders and coders that fix client side issues, thats huge. 

 

[Riamus]

What is also false equivalency is peoples thoughts that mods scue the numbers but what they fail to realize console players have been around many many many years to. The last i checked mods are still not available on console- xbox, ps5. Thats just a fact but reality is fixn to hit all you folks in the face when these console players finally start to get to join dedicated, It wouldnt surprise me at all over the years if console has sold more of the 7d2d accounts than steam has during that time. The other thing is everyone knows console players luv to play pvp, once they get their mouths wet on 7d2d pvp this forum is going blow up with pvp players.

1) Mods *do* skew the numbers because killing NPCs in them counts as player kills for the achievement.

2) Most console players will not change to PC just to play PVP 7D2D.  PC players have been trying to convince console players that PC is better and offers so much more than console for a very long time, yet most console players won't even consider a PC.  They prefer console, regardless of limitations.  If they want PVP, they'll just play a PVP game that is available on console.  If they want to kill people in this game, they'll just do so as it is now rather than switch.  You may get a very tiny percentage of console players who will switch, but most will not.  They've had a very long time to be convinced to switch and haven't done so.  This game won't get them to switch.  Besides, if anything would get them to switch, it would be mods, not PVP.  Mods are a huge thing in this game, far more than PVP.

You are still inflating numbers.  Give it a break.  You've ruined your cause with how you are trying to promote it.

 

[Roland]

My question is why hasn't Grandpa Minion galvanized his 100's of players who feel as he does to come here and flood the poll? Where are they? I'd be more inclined to believe in the huge PvP presence out there if they would come here and blow this poll away in their favor. It would be a very PvP thing to do: Raid the PvE forum and bring shock and awe down on the PvP poll overwhelming all the sissy PvE responses.

I'll wait....

EDIT: Oh damn! I forgot that your players are probably waiting for all of the PvE players to log off before they start their raid. 

 

[zztong]

some things serverside is impossible to detect

Yes, that is understood; no debate there.

with workshop support players can download patchs by modders and coders that fix client side issues, thats huge.

And this is the disconnect. While that is true of Workshop support, it is also true WITHOUT Workshop support. The 7D2D content on NexusMods demonstrates this.

So, please elaborate. Is there something specific about HOW your modders think the Workshop downloads modlets that is important? For instance...

• @YourMirror speculated your modders think Workshop support will allow modlets to be compatible with EAC.
  
• I speculated that your players might have trouble installing modlet into their game manually.
  
• Perhaps your modders are thinking Workshop support will provide modlets to the Console players?
  

What specifically do you and your modders have in mind?

 

[Grandpa Minion]

So, please elaborate. Is there something specific about HOW your modders think the Workshop downloads modlets that is important? For instance...

pvp used to be the end game once a player was good enough to go out and to it, raid and ect...

with that fizzled out players have no idea what they are meant to do most of the time. Also without mods there are almost no popular servers the only active servers are modded.

Since the devs do not go anywhere with 7d2d in pvp they need to back off and give the coders and modders workshop support so overhauls like factions and other ones for pvp that have been discussed can be done.