Suggestions on how to improve water collecting/handling

[Lamblaska]

Hello there!

I know this is a hot topic and a lot of other topics somehow fall to this matter somehow. I have participated in a lot of this discussions and proposed a lot of ideas. But I do realize I did them in regular general discussion topics... so I'm not sure if that was the place to do so. And I think this pimp dream might the place. (So, sorry in advance).

[Context]
Where do I stand in the new water system?
I like it. It makes water feel like you should worry about it. You struggle with it like I think you should in a survival game. But I also think it requires improving and tuning. 

Why I am posting this?
Not to start another front in this discussion. Just to share my ideas to improve. Please, don't make this another topic to discuss the change but focus on provide feedback on these ideas (even as silly as they can look).

How do I play 7dtd?
In group (4-8 players). Nomad difficult, 100% loot, 100% xp. 2-3 hours length day, avoiding traders (not big fan of quests). Not like deep dive meta and specialist in the game. More in the casual, semi roleplay of the spectrum.

[Personal Feedback]

The good:

• It feels like a struggle and you have to worry about water (specially in early game).
  
• Dew collectors are interesting.
  
• No more Jars, less craft material overhead.
  

The bad:

• The struggle is high at early game. But it mostly vanishes at mid and late game.
  
• Only being able to acquire water purifiers from traders.
  
• Seems a bit off in the immersion perspective (it's a mix of dew and rain collector)
  
• Heat generation for dew collectors are not a good way to discourage farming
  

[Now to the ideas]

The premises I'm following for these ideas:

1. Water is something you have to worry and deal with it always (early, mid and late game).
   
2. Keep immersion and game balance at perspective always.
   
3. Being able to handle water not only trough trading, but also from scrapping/looting and crafting as well. 
   
4. Make water production reliable, but not too reliable. 
   

Now the ideas themselves

• (1) Dew Collectors (or water collectors) consume filters in order to work. Like wood that is consumed to heat the campfires. Or batteries are consumed for energy in batteries banks.
  
  By doing this we change the currently single time struggle to acquire a dew collector. To an effort of upkeeping each collector regularly. 
  

[*](2) Add recipe to build water filter/purifiers. 

• 
  Coal, Stone, Sand and Scrap Polymers for instance could be materials required to craft the water filter. Fix the amount of materials to make it easier or hardier to craft. 
  
• They can be crafted using a workbench (or not, I don't have a strong opinion about this).
  
• Aim for their duration of this fuel/filter to require a upkeep effort. I think one per day or couple of days would be nice.
  

[*](3) Make water purifiers recipe available somehow:

• 
  If you want the recipe to be more predictable to players. Add it to a craft skill (like Advanced Engineering or Seeds)
  
• If you want them to be less predictable. Add it to a book (like Wasteland Survival Guide) or a schematic (like most of weapons mods) 
  

[*](4) Make them scrapable:

• 
  From broken dew collectors.
  
• From water fountains, water filters or even in fridge's. 
  

From 1 to 4. It only make sense for them to be made together. But there are a few other isolated ideas:

• (5) Remove heat generation from dew collectors.
  
  Prevent farming by increasing the upkeep effort of filter production. 
  

[*](6) Make it environment sensible .

• 
  If it rains it generates water faster.
  
• If it is a sandstorm generates water slower.
  
• Being affected by the biome. 
  
• [I do understand that this is the hardiest one to be applied]
  

[*](7) make tiers of filters.

• 
  T0 is the easiest one that only provides dirty water at slow rates. And last for a few hours. Using easy to find/mine materials.
  
• T1 could provide regular water. And lasts for a day. Add a less common material, such as leather.
  
• T2 could provide regular water, but faster. And lasts for a couple of days.  Use special material, such as sewing kit for instance. 
   
  

Hope you enjoy this idea. There is a more in depth discussion about it in this general topic: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/32406-water-feedback/page/7/
 

 

[OneManStanding]

I am of the view that filters should be a very, very rarer quest rewards; a very, very rare loot find; and a very, very rare commodity at the trader and bought for a extortionate price... But a filter can later be crafted using silver nuggets obtained from treasure maps or mining - silver was used to disinfect water as far back as Roman times. Currently all you can do with silver or gold is sell it to a trader, but this would give it a purpose. This would make dew collectors harder to get and mean TFP could either cut the heat completely as it'll take quite a while for someone to get a game-breaking big water farm together; or knock it down to 1-or-2% so in large numbers they still contribute to your heat/activity signature in tandem with your fire, forges, stations and such like.

In addition to this I might suggest that maybe the trader gets a broken dew collector added to it that the player can maybe skim the odd water jar or two every day or so.

 

[zztong]

Interesting ideas. Some feedback...

Heat generation for dew collectors are not a good way to discourage farming

I don't think this is the correct perspective. I think the goal of heat generation is to encourage encounters with zombies, which is kind of the "reason to be" for the game, and an appealing aspect to some players.

I don't think heat discourages farming (water or otherwise) as it is trivial to eliminate the effects of heat by either dispersing those assets or not spending any significant time near them. The latter is especially easy with dew collectors as you only need seconds to harvest them and then move on.

(5) Remove heat generation from dew collectors.

• Prevent farming by increasing the upkeep effort of filter production.
  

But I do like that filters would wear out and need to be replaced. In fact, that's a pattern I'd like to see extended to all of the workstations. I'd keep the heat generation, but go with your recipe/replace approach to filters.

In fact, I've got a private mod I whipped up a day ago for an upcoming solo game that adds a recipe for a filter. It also includes both a filtered Dew Collector (make potable water) and an unfiltered Dew Collector that makes murky water. I did decide to reduce the heat on an Unfiltered Dew Collector since I would have to use a campfire (which produces heat) to purify it. Thus, my unfiltered dew collector has the approximate heat value of a torch, rather than that of a workstation.

 

[Lamblaska]

I am of the view that filters should be a very, very rarer quest rewards; a very, very rare loot find; and a very, very rare commodity at the trader and bought for a extortionate price... But a filter can later be crafted using silver nuggets obtained from treasure maps or mining - silver was used to disinfect water as far back as Roman times. Currently all you can do with silver or gold is sell it to a trader, but this would give it a purpose. This would make dew collectors harder to get and mean TFP could either cut the heat completely as it'll take quite a while for someone to get a game-breaking big water farm together; or knock it down to 1-or-2% so in large numbers they still contribute to your heat/activity signature in tandem with your fire, forges, stations and such like.

In addition to this I might suggest that maybe the trader gets a broken dew collector added to it that the player can maybe skim the odd water jar or two every day or so.

Do you believe that they should be consumables? 

I like the idea of using the silver, it has only value in selling. 

 

Interesting ideas. Some feedback...

I don't think this is the correct perspective. I think the goal of heat generation is to encourage encounters with zombies, which is kind of the "reason to be" for the game, and an appealing aspect to some players.

I don't think heat discourages farming (water or otherwise) as it is trivial to eliminate the effects of heat by either dispersing those assets or not spending any significant time near them. The latter is especially easy with dew collectors as you only need seconds to harvest them and then move on.

But I do like that filters would wear out and need to be replaced. In fact, that's a pattern I'd like to see extended to all of the workstations. I'd keep the heat generation, but go with your recipe/replace approach to filters.

In fact, I've got a private mod I whipped up a day ago for an upcoming solo game that adds a recipe for a filter. It also includes both a filtered Dew Collector (make potable water) and an unfiltered Dew Collector that makes murky water. I did decide to reduce the heat on an Unfiltered Dew Collector since I would have to use a campfire (which produces heat) to purify it. Thus, my unfiltered dew collector has the approximate heat value of a torch, rather than that of a workstation.

Hmm. It's an interesting perspective (the heat generation to provide more zombie conflict). I always look at it as a mechanic to discourage you to overproduce things at your base. 

And I'm curious. What are you thoughts on the workstation?