PC Stun Batons

[SickPuppy]

Two things I wanna address about this comment1) As I mentioned to someone else... you're relying on a weapon combo to compensate for how weak both (baton & turrets) are solo. You don't have to do that with other weapons.

2) Baton dealing a ton of damage, is either horribly wrong, or a deliberate lie. It is objectively worse than almost everything, according to the XML files.

Base damage for QL 1, Tier 1 weapons is as follows:

Wood Club = 11.6

Bone Knife = 10.2

Stone Spear = 10.3

Stone Sledge = 25.7

Leather Knucks = 8.3

Stun Baton.... 10.8

Now for the kicker... Stun Baton is, per the XML a Tier 2 weapon - which makes sense, as there's no upgrading to better batons - and it actually requires stun baton parts. So you have a Tier 2 weapon, dealing less damage than the most primative version of other weapons.

Now, how does that 10.8 damage compare to other Tier 2, Quality 1 items?

Iron Club = 17.4

Hunting Knife = 10.5

Iron Spear = 12.4

Iron Sledge = 30.8

Iron Knucks = 12.1

So, again - objectively - the only thing you're reliably out-damaging... is a f'king deer skinning knife (lmao)

I'm not disagreeing other weapons are more powerful, but you can look at stats all day long it won't make a difference to how it plays.

- all short range melee if you fight zombies head on you'll be getting hit early game so you have to spec into Healing so that's basically your combo compared to baton + turret combo, you can't even spec into turrets till level 5 Int;

- sledges have a very small hit success to the head plus you need to spec into sexT there's your combo;

- again you need to test these on Insane/Nightmare run and see how many times you miss with the stronger weapons compared to the stun baton which 'feels' like it can hardly miss, staggers with head shots, stuns, giving you even more easy hits;

If you're playing on lower levels anything goes and the stronger weapons will feel more powerful. Try the 'stronger' weapons on a raged Insane/Nightmare biker then try with a stun baton, your life will be way way easier.

 

[FA_Q2]

Aside from the fact that the turret is the other weapon in the tree and that thing is asinine when maxed....

The stun baton works pretty darn well on its own if you kitted it out right. With weighted head and burning shaft you have enough stun and secondary damage to take on pretty much everything.

 

[Carl_Bar]

I'm not disagreeing other weapons are more powerful, but you can look at stats all day long it won't make a difference to how it plays.

- all short range melee if you fight zombies head on you'll be getting hit early game so you have to spec into Healing so that's basically your combo compared to baton + turret combo, you can't even spec into turrets till level 5 Int;

- sledges have a very small hit success to the head plus you need to spec into sexT there's your combo;

- again you need to test these on Insane/Nightmare run and see how many times you miss with the stronger weapons compared to the stun baton which 'feels' like it can hardly miss, staggers with head shots, stuns, giving you even more easy hits;

If you're playing on lower levels anything goes and the stronger weapons will feel more powerful. Try the 'stronger' weapons on a raged Insane/Nightmare biker then try with a stun baton, your life will be way way easier.

Your first bullet point applies to Stun batons too. Alongside knives and knuckles their the shortest ranged weapon in the game. Ditto for the second bullet point.

Your last point is even moe asine. Nightmare speed insane difficulty is when the bigger damage outputs of the other weapons matter more not less. On that difficulty/speed combo getting swarmed by multiple zombies is normal. The stun baton cannot deal with that in the slightest because you simply won't live long enough to kill anything worth a damn with it because your damage output is too low.

I can't help but feel your mostly considering 1v1 situation. In that scenario the stun baton excel's, no question. But so does every other weapon ranged or melee in the entire game. Nothing struggles with that if you play well.

 

[Drunkwolf]

the stun isnt really a stun. it just roots them if you get close they will still hit you. and with the awkward rag dolling of the zombies, most of the time when you " stun " them they slide around the screen because they are being rooted at the same time they are doing their new little rage thing. so you have to wait a second or 2 just to see where they will end up before you can even swing again.

I like the idea of it, but it still needs some work. I try to make it work and work with the turret, then i see my buddy just come in and one shot their heads off with the sledge and im like...why waste my time with this lol

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Your last point is even moe asine. Nightmare speed insane difficulty is when the bigger damage outputs of the other weapons matter more not less. On that difficulty/speed combo getting swarmed by multiple zombies is normal. The stun baton cannot deal with that in the slightest because you simply won't live long enough to kill anything worth a damn with it because your damage output is too low.

Well yes, but actually no.

You DO NOT HIT running zombies with sledgehammers.

Especially if you don't knock them down on glancing blows.

Read my OP in THIS thread.

So if he is saying that the stunbaton has a better glancing arc and less stamina usage and hits more reliably, shocking them, that is actually a HUGE benefit!

 

[SickPuppy]

Your first bullet point applies to Stun batons too. Alongside knives and knuckles their the shortest ranged weapon in the game. Ditto for the second bullet point.
Your last point is even moe asine. Nightmare speed insane difficulty is when the bigger damage outputs of the other weapons matter more not less. On that difficulty/speed combo getting swarmed by multiple zombies is normal. The stun baton cannot deal with that in the slightest because you simply won't live long enough to kill anything worth a damn with it because your damage output is too low.

I can't help but feel your mostly considering 1v1 situation. In that scenario the stun baton excel's, no question. But so does every other weapon ranged or melee in the entire game. Nothing struggles with that if you play well.

I get what you're saying but early game, on those settings, there's no way to fight zombies especially 2 or 3 head on. So you have to use the environment, poi's, any 2 high fences, filter them into doorways, etc, basically fight smart, let's call these defensive blocks.

Even if you find a q1 or q2 stronger weapon, zombies can take dozens of hits before going down. Now the defensive block is taking damage from multiple zombies because sledge is slow and miss able, blades/clubs/bows/spears don't do enough damage yet to take down 2 or 3 zombies quick enough, so zombies break whatever you're on and you're swarmed and have to relocate. But the batons quick attack speed and bigger hit box means zombies are stunned and do little to no damage to your defensive block.

So batons might do less damage per hit, but because you're safe and constantly hitting you'll take down multiple zombies faster than any other melee in those early days where the stronger weapons just aren't there yet. Later game sure the stronger weapons come into play, but as I said stats don't paint the whole picture, early game stun batons make life way easier.

- - - Updated - - -

So if he is saying that the stunbaton has a better glancing arc and less stamina usage and hits more reliably, shocking them, that is actually a HUGE benefit!

basically what he is saying

 

[FA_Q2]

I get what you're saying but early game, on those settings, there's no way to fight zombies especially 2 or 3 head on. So you have to use the environment, poi's, any 2 high fences, filter them into doorways, etc, basically fight smart, let's call these defensive blocks.
Even if you find a q1 or q2 stronger weapon, zombies can take dozens of hits before going down. Now the defensive block is taking damage from multiple zombies because sledge is slow and miss able, blades/clubs/bows/spears don't do enough damage yet to take down 2 or 3 zombies quick enough, so zombies break whatever you're on and you're swarmed and have to relocate. But the batons quick attack speed and bigger hit box means zombies are stunned and do little to no damage to your defensive block.

So batons might do less damage per hit, but because you're safe and constantly hitting you'll take down multiple zombies faster than any other melee in those early days where the stronger weapons just aren't there yet. Later game sure the stronger weapons come into play, but as I said stats don't paint the whole picture, early game stun batons make life way easier.

- - - Updated - - -

basically what he is saying

I would add that as an int user, set up is the important part of how you fight a la turrets. You have to set up where you want to fight those hordes. Doorways are the obvious choice and stunning the lead zed in a doorway BLOCKS many of the ones behind it from getting to your defensive block. This is immensely helpful early game.

There really is noting that competes with the sledge's knockdown ability late game though. Not worth trading 2 uber turrets for tbh. It is easy to set up a kill box for almost any number of zeds.

 

[General Lee]

I maxed out the INT tree and Turret Syndrome. I always carry 2 turrets, but found that for the more difficult jobs, carrying 4 can make a difference. Only 2 can be active at the same time, but when you drop 4, you can choose which 2 are active. The turrets you are closest to will be active, and you can switch which turrets you want active by moving around. Using turrets sometimes involves using a little strategy, planning ahead. Depending on the POI or situation, you can place them in different ways. Place 2, move up and place 2 more. If need be, fall back to the other 2 turrets. Or, if need be, place all 4 around you, and alternate which turrets are active depending on where the threat is coming from. With mods, they are even better.

I carry a steel sledge now for those up close and personal moments, just in case the turrets can't cut it or something goes wrong. I carry a spear in case an irradiated zombie needs staggering from a distance to give the turrets more time to tear 'em up. I also carry an M60 for those moments where everything absolutely must die. I also carry barbed wire fencing with me to place in door ways, or in front of my turrets, to further inhibit, damage, and slow any threats. I've gotta say, I love using Junk Turrets. The only problem I've come across is maintaining sustainable ammo for them, because they can go through ammo quick if you're using them a lot. Turrets require a little foresight, but I prefer planning out my assaults and defensive maneuvers, even when playing as a tank using brute force.

 

[Carl_Bar]

I get what you're saying but early game, on those settings, there's no way to fight zombies especially 2 or 3 head on. So you have to use the environment, poi's, any 2 high fences, filter them into doorways, etc, basically fight smart, let's call these defensive blocks.
Even if you find a q1 or q2 stronger weapon, zombies can take dozens of hits before going down. Now the defensive block is taking damage from multiple zombies because sledge is slow and miss able, blades/clubs/bows/spears don't do enough damage yet to take down 2 or 3 zombies quick enough, so zombies break whatever you're on and you're swarmed and have to relocate. But the batons quick attack speed and bigger hit box means zombies are stunned and do little to no damage to your defensive block.

So batons might do less damage per hit, but because you're safe and constantly hitting you'll take down multiple zombies faster than any other melee in those early days where the stronger weapons just aren't there yet. Later game sure the stronger weapons come into play, but as I said stats don't paint the whole picture, early game stun batons make life way easier.

- - - Updated - - -

basically what he is saying

And what about the stun baton prevent the zeds fram bashing through your defensive block. Hint, nothing. Only now you've done even lss damage. I don't buy the easier to hit with argument for a second. Sorry but it';s a load of bull as far as i'm concerned. I do intend to have a play around ofc. But i need to setup a game on the side to do that, (never wound the difficulty slider up that far, only speed), but i've never experienced the slightest issue, even vs very speedy zombies, neither has he person i'm playing with. the only scenario i can conceive of is a significantly more laggy server connection. But even then i'm pretty sure you'd do way better to just pull out a gun and start blasting. And i don't consider balancing around bad connections somthing that should be a thing, (now working to make it so bad connections effect all things equally, 100%).

 

[SickPuppy]

Why some of u think we're lying about stun baton is baffling, it's probably the least cool looking weapon in the whole game but you can't deny it's effectiveness.

It takes 5 mins to test, load navezgane map, Insane/Nightmare run, give yourself level 1 melee weapons, I wouldn't waste time with stone, give yourself a chance with iron weapons. Block a doorway with wood frame, upgrade it twice coz the strong slow weapons just won't hold. Spawn 3 early zombie types and test each weapon.

Stun baton is a melee weapon, why you'd compare to a firearm I've no idea ofc it would be easier.

 

[FA_Q2]

I maxed out the INT tree and Turret Syndrome. I always carry 2 turrets, but found that for the more difficult jobs, carrying 4 can make a difference. Only 2 can be active at the same time, but when you drop 4, you can choose which 2 are active. The turrets you are closest to will be active, and you can switch which turrets you want active by moving around. Using turrets sometimes involves using a little strategy, planning ahead. Depending on the POI or situation, you can place them in different ways. Place 2, move up and place 2 more. If need be, fall back to the other 2 turrets. Or, if need be, place all 4 around you, and alternate which turrets are active depending on where the threat is coming from. With mods, they are even better.
I carry a steel sledge now for those up close and personal moments, just in case the turrets can't cut it or something goes wrong. I carry a spear in case an irradiated zombie needs staggering from a distance to give the turrets more time to tear 'em up. I also carry an M60 for those moments where everything absolutely must die. I also carry barbed wire fencing with me to place in door ways, or in front of my turrets, to further inhibit, damage, and slow any threats. I've gotta say, I love using Junk Turrets. The only problem I've come across is maintaining sustainable ammo for them, because they can go through ammo quick if you're using them a lot. Turrets require a little foresight, but I prefer planning out my assaults and defensive maneuvers, even when playing as a tank using brute force.

Man, that cuts down on loot though. Only bad point. I already have almost 2 rows filled with crap to carry around already.

 

[Ganeden]

Anyone ever played an enchanter type class in an MMORPG/RPG? They act as crowd control. That's what I think this class should be like with it's baton. Sneak in, place turrets and quickly smack all the zombies around you in repeating succession until the turrets kill them. Put the baton to low damage, very fast attack, insta-stun. IMO it would be such a fun class to play around with. Like the enchanter in an RPG it would take high skill and singular focus on this build but would be very fun and very effective to those who can pass the test. Would also add a really fun multiplayer element in my opinion not just for the INT build but everyone around them.

 

[General Lee]

Man, that cuts down on loot though. Only bad point. I already have almost 2 rows filled with crap to carry around already.

I usually just carry 2 turrets at a time with me, with 2 more in storage on my motorcycle, and I usually play with at least one other person when I go out questing and looting. If I do run low on backpack space, I can always dump some stuff in a chest at entrance, or in my motorcycle, and resume.

As for Stun Batons, I haven't tried them myself, but I've heard more than one person on the server mention how good they are, at least once they skilled up. Since I maxed my INT tree, I'll probably try one soon. If I don't like it, I can always use the Fergetin' Elixir and respec my character.

 

[Carl_Bar]

Why some of u think we're lying about stun baton is baffling, it's probably the least cool looking weapon in the whole game but you can't deny it's effectiveness.
It takes 5 mins to test, load navezgane map, Insane/Nightmare run, give yourself level 1 melee weapons, I wouldn't waste time with stone, give yourself a chance with iron weapons. Block a doorway with wood frame, upgrade it twice coz the strong slow weapons just won't hold. Spawn 3 early zombie types and test each weapon.

Stun baton is a melee weapon, why you'd compare to a firearm I've no idea ofc it would be easier.

It's not so much that i think your lying as i think there;'s some external factor at work here that one or both of us aren't appreciating.

Also i've never use cheats so i've no clue how i'd do any of that bar the frames, (those are pretty trivial to get hands on duh) .

 

[General Lee]

After using the Stun Baton, and putting points into Electrocutioner, I can see where it shines and lacks. Later in the game, when you're being attacked by multiple feral and irradiated zombies, you absolute have to keep falling back and rely on strategic, or at least useful, placement of your Junk Turrets. After putting 4 points into Electrocutioner, it still feels a bit weak, due to the weapon's base damage being so weak. I believe increasing the chances of stunning with every level of Electrocutioner up to 100% at Electrocutioner 5 should do the trick, at least when using a power attack. A guaranteed stun on power attack, if only when the skill is maxed out, would be nice.

 

[Ramethzer0]

after using the stun baton extensively, I can say that I wish the stun duration was longer, and that I'm not a fan of zombies being able to lash out while still stunned. They stand in place, but they can still throw hands. I really liked it in the beginning but the perk investments seem to be not as gain as the other melee weapons.

I feel the Knife and Stun baton are bottom of the ladder, at the moment. They need a little more tweaking to be truly effective for the cost.

 

[alanea]

1) guys you completely miss some features of stun baton ... base damage isnt everything dont forged actual stun is "shocked" effect dealing 6dmg every 0,5s of effect

2) while its not full stun it stagger zeds alot making them skip most of their attack + allow you land easy and alot more safe hits to head

3) stunned enemies cannot run (ferals) + it effectively counters new "zombie rage"

so in end damage isnt as low as it seems .. and shock will help you avoid some damage/stun/bleed/infection and thats handy for medium range melee weapon ( baton is 2,4 club 2,4 machette 2,3 knife 2,0 sledge 2,6 spear 3,2 baseball bat 2,4 )

 

[AtomicUs5000]

I would rather have it where the stun baton charged up when running with it in your hand, as opposed to hitting with it.

The main purpose of it is to try to fight safe. Hitting with it when rage exists diminishes its usefulness significantly... even more so now that super rage has been added. It makes sense for a player using this weapon to be doing more running around and dodging, rather than trying to do damage with it when not charged.

 

[Carl_Bar]

After using the Stun Baton, and putting points into Electrocutioner, I can see where it shines and lacks. Later in the game, when you're being attacked by multiple feral and irradiated zombies, you absolute have to keep falling back and rely on strategic, or at least useful, placement of your Junk Turrets. After putting 4 points into Electrocutioner, it still feels a bit weak, due to the weapon's base damage being so weak. I believe increasing the chances of stunning with every level of Electrocutioner up to 100% at Electrocutioner 5 should do the trick, at least when using a power attack. A guaranteed stun on power attack, if only when the skill is maxed out, would be nice.

Haven't played 7 days in a couple of IRL days, (sleeping issues rearing their head again plus other things to do IRL), so not got any testing done but this was definitely the state i was addressing it in. Super early on every melee weapon in the game is more than adequate. But as you start to invest perks the stun baton really feels like it falls off. Which given it gets no attack rate or damage buffs from the perks isn't a suprise. Another factor is the low t1 DPS means that extra tiers add a lot less absolute DPS. Ditto for any other percentage mods.

Vs lone tough zombies it's quite a nice weapon as the zap does interrupt them enough to make you take noticeably fewer hits. But as you start to run into more and more enemies like that the slower kill time becomes very noticable.

1) guys you completely miss some features of stun baton ... base damage isnt everything dont forged actual stun is "shocked" effect dealing 6dmg every 0,5s of effect
2) while its not full stun it stagger zeds alot making them skip most of their attack + allow you land easy and alot more safe hits to head

3) stunned enemies cannot run (ferals) + it effectively counters new "zombie rage"

so in end damage isnt as low as it seems .. and shock will help you avoid some damage/stun/bleed/infection and thats handy for medium range melee weapon ( baton is 2,4 club 2,4 machette 2,3 knife 2,0 sledge 2,6 spear 3,2 baseball bat 2,4 )

The problem is the shocked effect only applies several swings into the fight. I often found that average zombies where dying on the swing that applied it or the swing after. When i was fighting alongside my relative with his club he was one shotting zombies with it every swing even if he was swinging a bit slower. And as noted there's no increase to damage output from the perk so it;'s several hundred DPM behind every other T2 weapon. And the shock effect does not scale in any way so the greater absolute damage of other weapons that does scale with various things begins to pickup a real big advantage as the % benefits can quickly begin to outstrip the flat DPM added by the shock effect.

Knives sidestep this by being able to apply mas bleeds on any swing they choose so they can get their damage over time into effect earlier and they have better raw damage when you factor in both their possesing a T3 form and the perk damage per hit scaling.

 

[alanea]

well honestly knife / spear have same issue lets do some comparison ( and hope posted dps is correct)

lets also ignore sledge ... as we probably all know its best overall ( by far best dpM ... second best range after spear snd small chance to enrage zeds (unless iam wrong theres fixed chance per hit ... so less strong hits is better ) )

Spears = disqualified - compared to other weapons spears have bad dps ... no power attacks

can be thrown thats handy but little bit risky (unless you waste another slot for reserve weapon) as well as hard to compare to melee weapons

Strenght of spears mostly comes from 3.2 range which in midgame they are by far safest option for beginners ... not that awesome very early as their bad damage makes fights longer.. and more likely to enrage zombies

Stone Spear: 566.5DPM Iron Spear: 682DPM Steel Spear: 1023DPM

i dont really consider knuckles as viable weapon 2.0 range even at t3 is just extremely bad (same as zombies) - iam sure it can be diminished partially by experience ... but for average player even small mistakes often means unnecesary hit and that matters especially early game

lets rank rest a little

early game t1 no perks

1st Stun Baton: 756DPM 2.4 range (top range combined with best damage shock effect = not a stun ...but immobile zombie with shorter range is sitting duck as well as cant charge you if it enrage)

Wood Club: 759DPM 2.4 range

Bone Knife: 612DPM 2.0 range

t2 0/5 perk

Stun Baton: 756DPM 2.4 range + 0-360 shock DPM (situational impossible to really measure)

Iron Club: 904.8DPM 2.4 range

Hunting Knife: 726DPM 2.0 range

winner? hard to tell .. club has superior damage and stun ... but inferior perk (5/5 makes every third hit deal +100% damage ) so 33,3% damage per hit

compared to baton +50% damage per hit and +100% shock duration (6dmg every 0,5s) while iam not sure about exact duration ... 5/5 with flurry of attacks can basically perma shock

knife is clearly weakest option = while weakest damage can be compensated a bit by bleed(6x 1/sec) range stay awfull

t2 5/5 perk

Stun Baton: 1134DPM 2.4 range + 0-720 shock DPM (situational impossible to really measure)

Iron Club: 1206DPM 2.4 range

Hunting knife 1089DPM 2.0 range +0-354 bleed dpm (same as shock it depends on situation .. dying targets etc)

both .. club stun and baton root make you effectively safe dps is similar even if you waste most shocks both are clearly competitive

knife is still clearly behind

t3+ baton 5/5 perk

Stun Baton: 1134DPM 2.4 range + 0-720 shock DPM (no change here)

Baseball Bat: 1815.4DPM 2.4 range

Machete: 1633DPM 2.3 range +0-354 bleed dpm (bleed is same across tiers)

bat is clearly winner here still leading with slightly better range machette can catchup dpm with bleed.... but in average situation it wont

bat is also slower ( less enrages) as well as knocking down enemies

bat can get barbed wire mod getting its own weaker bleed ( for machete bleed mod doesnt stack with perk as far i know)

another thing favoring club is +10% club/ bat perk from one of magazines for knife theres only inferior +10% dmg at night

( unsure about you guys but i prefer to avoid melee combat at night)

just for comparison 5/5 Steel Sledgehammer: deals 2355 dpm

tldr

t0 baton>club>knife

t1 baton=club>knife

t2 club>knife>baton

in the end baton is well balanced if its meant to be strong early/mid weapon .. losing breath in endgame due to missing t3

But some bonus or mod to lets say charging speed or AOE stun could definitely make it competitive even endgame ,guaranteed stun on power attack would be extremely OP making any enemy irrelevant 1v1

but even if baton stays as early game weapon ... its definitely helpful weapon with great defensive value and if you use melee for moping up harmless non runners in later stages to save ammo baton will will work as well as any other choice ( it still deals 70% of machete dps)

+ diversity is always good ... why put almost everything in 3 tiers

ps no need to fight or complain about lying we are all on same .. living side and sorry for long post