Story Mode Controversy --REDUX

[Roland]

What I don’t understand is how a Portuguese man gained control of a casino on tribal lands. To me, that is more offensive and less likely than the current story— unless it happened after the apocalypse. But in that case any person of any nationality, skin color, religion, or gender could have done it.

Also, the backstory never claims that Whiteriver was a white settlement before the apocalypse does it? Why would any pre-war location necessarily stay the same post-war? Why would there even be “reservation land” and “nonreservation land” with zombies roaming everywhere? I doubt the ragtag survivors would ever consult a map and avoid a good strategic spot because it used to be tribal lands. All such demarcations and boundaries would be erased by a disaster on the scale the game.

 

[Double G]

and zombie boe is black

You gotta be kidding me. Anyone that studies death as much as me would know that black people's skin tone barely changes at all in the first stage of death, which is known as "Pallor mortis", and as decomp progresses they actually get darker.

Boe is ORANGE!


What the hell is going on here?!

 

[Jost Amman]

Boe is ORANGE!

Yeah, but as the saying goes... Orange is the new Black!

Spoiler

 

[Roland]

Oompa Loompa Doopidy Doo...

 

[khzmusik]

Here comes the comfy white man who bought into the whole white guilt thing a little too much.

I feel guilty about many things, but being white is not one of them.

The idea that white guilt helps anyone is a stupid idea. It is almost as stupid as the idea that white people who don't like racism are motivated by white guilt.

Though, hold on...that might not be the case because I believe kHz did say that he's not really concerned about the racism in and of itself, but more so how it might make him look for liking the game.

It can be both. If I don't like racism in and of itself, why would I want to publicly associate myself with a game that has a racist story? Why would I want to be seen to support something if I don't actually support it?

Also, you're ignoring the fact that I'm also concerned about how it might make the game itself look, since you're right that I like it, and I want it to succeed. Maybe it's an unrealistic concern in your opinion, but it's not in mine.

I say they should keep the Native American trope, then add some more racial stereotypes.

I doubt that will happen. Here's what I'm guessing will actually happen.

TFP will go ahead with exactly what is in the game files now. Because most 7D2D players don't pay attention to these forums, to them, the story will come out of nowhere.

A whole lot of players won't be comfortable with the racial overtones. They may not know that the "Casino Indian" trope is a racial stereotype, or that Whiteriver is an Apache town in real life, but they will get the general sense that something is off. The phrase "I don't know how I feel about this" will be used a lot.

Some will come to these forums and voice their opinions about it. They will quickly learn that their opinions aren't welcome. They will shut up and quietly go away. Seeing how their opinions were received, anyone who kind of agrees with them will also quietly go away.

That will undoubtedly please some people in this thread, but it probably won't please TFP or BI so much. Unfortunately at that point they won't be able to do much about it. Any attempt to "right the ship" won't get the alienated players back, and will only ■■■■ off the players that remained.

unless it happened after the apocalypse.

Correct. On the first Blood Moon, Camp Navajo was overrun. After escaping with their lives, the Duke and other military survivors retreated to the (wrecked) Twin Arrows Casino to regroup.

It was the best I could come up with for how a John-Wayne-loving Marine drill instructor could end up at a casino. But The Fun Pimps wanted the Duke at a casino, so there you go.

But in that case any person of any nationality, skin color, religion, or gender could have done it.

Correct. The reason the Duke is Portuguese, is because The Fun Pimps called The Duke and his minions "Cassadores," which is an anglicized spelling of the Portuguese word for "hunters."

Also, the backstory never claims that Whiteriver was a white settlement before the apocalypse does it?

The game files say Noah was the founder of the Whiteriver "settlements." There is no mention that Whiteriver ever existed before Noah founded it.

 

[Double G]

A whole lot of players won't be comfortable with the racial overtones. They may not know that the "Casino Indian" trope is a racial stereotype, or that Whiteriver is an Apache town in real life, but they will get the general sense that something is off. The phrase "I don't know how I feel about this" will be used a lot.

I think you're overestimating a "whole lot of players". I mean, just look at the lack of support you're getting in this thread. Most players won't even notice or feel like anything is off. There might be a few, that tend to look out for these things, that might try to use it to indulge in moral grandstanding, but unless TFP have the Duke and his bandits doing rain dances, it's all going to go over the heads of all but a small few.

Here's what I'm guessing will actually happen.

TFP will go ahead with exactly what is in the game files now. Because most 7D2D players don't pay attention to these forums, to them, the story will come out of nowhere.
Unfortunately at that point they won't be able to do much about it. Any attempt to "right the ship" won't get the alienated players back, and will only ■■■■ off the players that remained.

If you don't think anything is going to be changed before the full story is released, why not exercise the courage of your convictions and bring the topic up to a group of Native Americans? Obviously you're not getting anywhere here. We have the world wide web. I'm sure you can find an active group of Native Americans that would be willing to go over this.

Take the action. Be the one to make the change. But if not...then all of this is coming across as moral grandstanding.

 

[meganoth]

I feel guilty about many things, but being white is not one of them.

The idea that white guilt helps anyone is a stupid idea. It is almost as stupid as the idea that white people who don't like racism are motivated by white guilt.



It can be both. If I don't like racism in and of itself, why would I want to publicly associate myself with a game that has a racist story? Why would I want to be seen to support something if I don't actually support it?

Also, you're ignoring the fact that I'm also concerned about how it might make the game itself look, since you're right that I like it, and I want it to succeed. Maybe it's an unrealistic concern in your opinion, but it's not in mine.



I doubt that will happen. Here's what I'm guessing will actually happen.

TFP will go ahead with exactly what is in the game files now. Because most 7D2D players don't pay attention to these forums, to them, the story will come out of nowhere.

A whole lot of players won't be comfortable with the racial overtones. They may not know that the "Casino Indian" trope is a racial stereotype, or that Whiteriver is an Apache town in real life, but they will get the general sense that something is off. The phrase "I don't know how I feel about this" will be used a lot.

The casino indian trope is so often used in media exactly because very few know that it is not accurate.

If the trope were actually true, it would still be a trope, sure, but not really a racial trope because external factors have made indian reservations into owners of most casions in the US. If only polish people were allowed to be carpenters, and carpenters were associated with stolidity, stolid polish carpenters would not be a negative racial prototype, just a negative prototype.

That no individual owns those casinos is a rather unimportant inaccuracy in this regard since the tribes have chiefs and factually they would wield the power just like a CEO does for a publicly traded company. And we have lots of cases of crooked CEOs in history, right?

Some will come to these forums and voice their opinions about it. They will quickly learn that their opinions aren't welcome. They will shut up and quietly go away. Seeing how their opinions were received, anyone who kind of agrees with them will also quietly go away.

That will undoubtedly please some people in this thread, but it probably won't please TFP or BI so much. Unfortunately at that point they won't be able to do much about it. Any attempt to "right the ship" won't get the alienated players back, and will only ■■■■ off the players that remained.



Correct. On the first Blood Moon, Camp Navajo was overrun. After escaping with their lives, the Duke and other military survivors retreated to the (wrecked) Twin Arrows Casino to regroup.

It was the best I could come up with for how a John-Wayne-loving Marine drill instructor could end up at a casino. But The Fun Pimps wanted the Duke at a casino, so there you go.



Correct. The reason the Duke is Portuguese, is because The Fun Pimps called The Duke and his minions "Cassadores," which is an anglicized spelling of the Portuguese word for "hunters."



The game files say Noah was the founder of the Whiteriver "settlements." There is no mention that Whiteriver ever existed before Noah founded it.

I know you are only answering Rolands question. But let me say that a lot of the inconsistencies in the game can only explained away by making it an alternate reality. Maybe that was TFPs idea all along, maybe they will simply never declare anywhere that it is in "our" universe just to be able to explain anything away should questions come up.

 

[Roland]

Correct. On the first Blood Moon, Camp Navajo was overrun. After escaping with their lives, the Duke and other military survivors retreated to the (wrecked) Twin Arrows Casino to regroup.

It was the best I could come up with for how a John-Wayne-loving Marine drill instructor could end up at a casino. But The Fun Pimps wanted the Duke at a casino, so there you go.

Correct. The reason the Duke is Portuguese, is because The Fun Pimps called The Duke and his minions "Cassadores," which is an anglicized spelling of the Portuguese word for "hunters."

So then it shouldn't matter what the race or the nationality of the Duke is. That he is Native American has no bearing on the classic Casino Indian Trope. They could have had a Jew take over an abandoned mosque and it would have as little to do with modern day Israeli/Islamic dynamics as an Indian taking over an abandoned casino.

The game files say Noah was the founder of the Whiteriver "settlements." There is no mention that Whiteriver ever existed before Noah founded it.

The founder of the post-apocalyptic version of the Whiteriver settlements. In your universe, a Portuguese man can be the founder of the Cassadore Settlement in what was formerly a Tribal Lands Casino, but a white man couldn't possibly found a settlement in what used to be a town on the old reservation and decide to call it by the same Old World name?

 

[Adam the Waster]

You gotta be kidding me. Anyone that studies death as much as me would know that black people's skin tone barely changes at all in the first stage of death, which is known as "Pallor mortis", and as decomp progresses they actually get darker.

Boe is ORANGE!
View attachment 39253

What the hell is going on here?!

I know that but alot of new zombies skin tones look very recently Infected. Boe looks like he was mauled and turned pretty recently

The only ones that look like they have been dead for awhile are crawlers, wights, tourist and a few others.

But boe is black, is he as black as he was? No but still he's black or you could argue he's mixed if you dont think he's black enough.

(But facial structure say other wise)

 

[BFT2020]

Possibly, but the Duke didn't take over a casino. Before the apocalypse, he already "owned" a Casino. He was already the most powerful man in Navezgane. He was already "corrupt," "ambitious," and "rigging the game." At least if the game files are to be believed.

And in the 7D2D world, individuals can own casinos. Is that too far fetch to believe? That's the great thing about games. They can be similar to real life but at the same time can be different. Just because it doesn't exist IRL does not mean it is not allowed in a game setting.

 

[Kalen]

Honestly, I've read through this thread (mostly in amusement) and the one thing that I haven't seen is anyone questioning the OPs premise. I read up a bit on the "casino indian" trope and I don't think it applies to the story thats been dug up from the game files. From what I've read the trope is more about native american casinos being corrupt or native americans utilizing their heritage for financial gain.... neither of those things appear to apply here.

 

[theFlu]

neither of those things appear to apply here.

Hmm, the story elements are a little on the vague side; but taking at face value what khz is saying.. it Can fit the trope, imo. If it actually does, might need the more complete story... (I don't think I need to repeat my position here, thou )

 

[Adam the Waster]

Im mostly staying quiet because aside from some very small things we dont know ANYTHING about the story. Hell we dont even know we're the virus came from. Only hints.

We dont know much about the duke and Noah. Only small things.

Ill judge the story when I see it. If they make the duke a generic bad guy then fair to make it controversial. But if he happens to be the way he is for a reason or many or even depth and even to make noah out to be a bad guy then even better. It's one thing to have a good hated villain but sense we will be able to pick a side they need to make it more Grey vs Black and white.

 

[Double G]

But boe is black, is he as black as he was? No but still he's black or you could argue he's mixed if you dont think he's black enough.

Nobody would ever identify him as black. Now, the old version of Boe is a much better candidate for being black, which is likely when someone identified him as such. But this current version of Boe is not black. Black people get darker and not lighter as they decay. Claiming that he's light skinned is a big stretch.

He also appears to be somewhere between the active and advanced stages of decay as evidenced by his dehydrated look. But zombies can't decay like normal dead bodies because the entire zombie apocalypse would be over within a month. So that would mean decay takes much longer for zombies which would indicate that he was turned a long time ago.

Then you gotta consider Party Girl. She looks like she's basically still alive. If she's a recently turned zombie then Boe is clearly not.

 

[khzmusik]

That no individual owns those casinos is a rather unimportant inaccuracy in this regard since the tribes have chiefs and factually they would wield the power just like a CEO does for a publicly traded company. And we have lots of cases of crooked CEOs in history, right?

It's not an "unimportant inaccuracy." It is foundational to the idea that Native Americans get individually wealthy from casinos, and operate them because of personal greed.

That is a lot harder to do if the trope told the truth: that tribal casinos are government programs. They are "owned" by tribes in the same way that the State of Arizona "owns" its state lottery.

The casinos are overseen by tribal councils - not "chiefs" - made up of elected government officials.

After the states take their cut, all casino profits must be spent on the general welfare of the tribe. Usually, that means things like day care, hospitals, elder care, or paving roads. Things that many tribes don't have, because Native Americans are the poorest demographic in America, especially those who live on reservations.

And the casinos are, so far, the only government program that has actually worked for bringing Native Americans out of poverty and into self-sufficiency.

But the trope is usually introduced when the tale needs a Native American villain, so these things are almost never mentioned.

And in the 7D2D world, individuals can own casinos.

See above. If the Duke only owned a casino, and wasn't a villain who is depicted as individually wealthy and motivated by greed, he wouldn't fit the "Casino Indian" trope. (At least not those parts of it.) It would still be inaccurate, but not inaccurate while presenting a negative stereotype.

Plus, that's not a defense of the story. If a story depicts a real-life racial stereotype, it doesn't suddenly stop depicting a real-life stereotype if it's set in a world where that stereotype is true.

We dont know much about the duke and Noah. Only small things.

There are over a hundred lines of dialog, nearly all voice acted, which are in the game files right now. They're not in the game yet, but to say we don't know much is not accurate.

See for yourself:

Post in thread 'Story Mode Controversy --REDUX'

May 11, 2026

For those of you who wanted to know what is in the game files, I have collected a list of everything said about Navezgane, the Duke, and Noah (and their men).

As far as I know, this is the entire story as it is communicated to the player, at least so far.

All of this is in the game's Localization.txt, and I have confirmed that all the trader dialog is voice acted. (The sound files are referenced in the XML, but that doesn't necessarily mean they exist, so I ripped the game files to make sure.) I may have been wrong about the voice acting being introduced in 2.0 though, they may...

• khzmusik

 

[Jost Amman]

If a story depicts a real-life racial stereotype, it doesn't suddenly stop depicting a real-life stereotype if it's set in a world where that stereotype is true.

So, basically, you're against half of the current fiction content that we consume in on-line streaming platforms?
Nice to know... good luck with that.

 

[meganoth]

It's not an "unimportant inaccuracy." It is foundational to the idea that Native Americans get individually wealthy from casinos, and operate them because of personal greed.

That is a lot harder to do if the trope told the truth: that tribal casinos are government programs. They are "owned" by tribes in the same way that the State of Arizona "owns" its state lottery.

The casinos are overseen by tribal councils - not "chiefs" - made up of elected government officials.

After the states take their cut, all casino profits must be spent on the general welfare of the tribe. Usually, that means things like day care, hospitals, elder care, or paving roads. Things that many tribes don't have, because Native Americans are the poorest demographic in America, especially those who live on reservations.

And the casinos are, so far, the only government program that has actually worked for bringing Native Americans out of poverty and into self-sufficiency.

But the trope is usually introduced when the tale needs a Native American villain, so these things are almost never mentioned.

Just ask around who owns well known companies like facebook, microsoft, disney ... and (I would guess) some people will tell you the name of the CEO, even if he has almost no shares in the company. Naturally the ones who think about the question before answering and have average common knowledge will tell you the correct answer "the shareholders" or (almost accurately) the guy who holds more than 50% of the shares. But they'll never ever say the supervisory board.

As far as I can see the ONLY time someone says the Duke owned a casino was from trader Jen. Even if we assume that 7D2D is a serious accurate drama , does she strike you as someone who arduously strives for accurate precise language?
Quotes "Hey, hotshot, I got something big for you." "The Duke is just a hothead who thinks he's God's gift to the apocalypse." "I heard half of the Duke's army came from the prisons. A real rough bunch."

And now the real problem: Most of us were so unsure about the actual details of how indian casinos were run that actually nobody before you noticed that that sentence can't be true, at least not in the real world. Would it be possible that Jen has only our level of knowledge?
And again, this also assumes that we are really talking about the real world being depicted in 7D2D, not an alternate reality

There are so many ways I showed you now why Jen would say that even if it is inaccurate in the real world. This is why I say it is an "unimportant inaccuracy". If you prefer I could rephrase that to "minor immersion breaking detail" or "inside artistic licence". I am often inaccurate or careless with words as well, just like Jen presumably.

 

[Kalen]

But the trope is usually introduced when the tale needs a Native American villain, so these things are almost never mentioned.

Maybe I don't watch enough movies or TV shows, but I can't think of a single example of this.... is it really a trope if no one ever uses it?

 

[khzmusik]

Maybe I don't watch enough movies or TV shows, but I can't think of a single example of this.... is it really a trope if no one ever uses it?

A while back I posted links to sources which discuss the "Casino Indian" trope, and those sources mention the media where it occurs (usually TV shows). Here's the post with the source links:

Post in thread 'Story Mode Controversy --REDUX'

May 14, 2026

These are Web links to some of my sources. I list them here so you can read them, and decide for yourselves whether the things I said are accurate.

I removed the "https" and "://" parts of the URLs. If I did not do this, I don't think the post would make it through the forum's spam filter.

Tribal Gaming
These are sources about tribal casino myths and realities, how those myths support the "Casino Indian" trope, and how that trope is a negative racial stereotype.

Native sources
Articles about tribal casino myths and realities from Native American websites. These...

• khzmusik

Or, generally:

Native American Casino - TV Tropes

Wherever there's an Indian reservation in Movieland, there has to be a casino. This is partly Truth in Television. In the United States, a series of legal decisions that began with Bryan v. Itasca County in 1976 and ended with the creation of the …

tvtropes.org

Obviously, not everything on that TV Tropes page will match the "Casino Indian" trope that social scientists are talking about. The "Casino Indian" trope typically presents Native American casino "owners" (or perhaps an "Indian Chief" character) as greedy and taking things from White people. In dramas, the "chief" or "owner" works with organized crime, or sometimes runs organized crime.

And, not all media present the trope as real. The "Chief Lazarus" character from It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia is an example - he's clearly a satire of the racial stereotype itself.

The stereotype has real-world consequences, since it's used by groups that act against Native Americans. But I will not post links about that, because that can get real political real quick, and we do not want to discuss politics here. So, if you're curious, you'll have to do your own research.

 

[Kalen]

A while back I posted links to sources which discuss the "Casino Indian" trope, and those sources mention the media where it occurs (usually TV shows). Here's the post with the source links:

Well... I haven't seen most of whats on those lists.... and the things I have seen don't fit the trope at all.