Stolen Content

[Kopfgeldjaeger]

Hello Everybody,

i would like to report, that some guys are using my content, even though i didnt allowed them.
They used my map and are now planing to use my ideas to rebuild the map. I have spented countless hours to create something fun and useful and yet content gets stolen just that easy??? i hope there will be justice in some way, else there is no point in creating anything anymore, since all people just steal and there will be 0 credit or anything at all in return.
[identifying information removed due to Naming & Shaming concerns]

They are using my PVP-Arena + all my content which i created there.
I have videos, pictures, and proof that i created the whole stuff

 

[Prisma501]

Name calling and shaming is not allowed. This will get removed shortly.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Anything you build or modify in the game, TFP has the rights to, not you. You can only ask to be mentioned, you have no legal ground though.

They should credit you tbh, that´s just good manners.

 

[Kopfgeldjaeger]

I hope funpimps will read this and react to that actually. Its not shaming - its reaching out to help to defend my hard work against thiefs and yes, you have to name guys who are robbing others!

 

[bdubyah]

How did they steal it, exactly? Is this a map you released to the public? Unfortunately this is something that happens, but for most stuff there isn't much you can do, TFP either.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

How did they steal it, exactly? Is this a map you released to the public? Unfortunately this is something that happens, but for most stuff there isn't much you can do, TFP either.

They could do something in theory as they have the copyright to everything created within the game. They won´t do anything though as this could create an example for others to follow and the last thing they need is more work.

 

[Riamus]

You haven't given any details that are all that useful. But keep in mind a few points:

• Anything you make using tools from this game or assets from this game (a map with vanilla POI is using assets from this game regardless of how you made the map) belongs to TFP. So if someone "steals" it, they are stealing from TFP rather than from you. See the TOS/EULA for details.
• If you make a map public, it's pretty much fair game. You can include information stating that it should not be used without your express permission, and some people will actually follow that, but once it's released, you have no real control over who uses it or how they use it. This is true for pretty much any maps or mods you might make for any game out there.
• Copyrights can protect your original works, but they can be far more trouble than it's worth to actually try to deal with courts over that, especially if someone is using your map or mod without making money off it (which isn't allowed by TFP anyhow). About the most you could really expect to get from such a case is a cease and desist order, and even that is probably more trouble than it is worth.
• If the map/etc. is being made available online, such as through a site like Nexus, your best option is to contact that site and let them know of the issue and if you can prove it, then there is a good chance they'll take it down. TFP isn't really the right people to talk to about this as they aren't the ones in charge of whatever location your stuff is being posted.

I understand that it can be frustrating if someone takes your work and claims it as their own. And I certainly support trying to get credit for your work. But at the same time, since there's no money involved and you did it so people can enjoy the work, is it really that bad that even more people are enjoying it than might otherwise have done so? Is credit more important than letting people enjoy what you made? Obviously you want people to give credit, but if they don't, is it that big of a problem? Maybe it is.

 

[Dark Sun]

You haven't given any details that are all that useful. But keep in mind a few points:

• Anything you make using tools from this game or assets from this game (a map with vanilla POI is using assets from this game regardless of how you made the map) belongs to TFP. So if someone "steals" it, they are stealing from TFP rather than from you. See the TOS/EULA for details.
• If you make a map public, it's pretty much fair game. You can include information stating that it should not be used without your express permission, and some people will actually follow that, but once it's released, you have no real control over who uses it or how they use it. This is true for pretty much any maps or mods you might make for any game out there.
• Copyrights can protect your original works, but they can be far more trouble than it's worth to actually try to deal with courts over that, especially if someone is using your map or mod without making money off it (which isn't allowed by TFP anyhow). About the most you could really expect to get from such a case is a cease and desist order, and even that is probably more trouble than it is worth.
• If the map/etc. is being made available online, such as through a site like Nexus, your best option is to contact that site and let them know of the issue and if you can prove it, then there is a good chance they'll take it down. TFP isn't really the right people to talk to about this as they aren't the ones in charge of whatever location your stuff is being posted.

I understand that it can be frustrating if someone takes your work and claims it as their own. And I certainly support trying to get credit for your work. But at the same time, since there's no money involved and you did it so people can enjoy the work, is it really that bad that even more people are enjoying it than might otherwise have done so? Is credit more important than letting people enjoy what you made? Obviously you want people to give credit, but if they don't, is it that big of a problem? Maybe it is.

Besides, this whole mess will imo eventually lead down the same rabbit hole that the creator of the original CompoPack took. A lot of people just flipped the bird, left, and thus PEP was born.

I believe you've covered everything though. "Stealing work" has no real legal stand here. Is it morally dodgy? Maybe, depending. If the thief was intending of proclaiming the map as their own, maybe getting even more popular than the original creator, and trying to frame them and claim that they're the original creator, then that's an issue. Otherwise, imitation is the most honest form of flattery. If OP is still against this practice, all they can really hope for is for people not to "steal" "their" work in the first place, or if confronted, turn over a new leaf and delete the copied or modified material. Collecting a comprehensive report to the site might work, as well.

 

[zztong]

Anything you build or modify in the game, TFP has the rights to, not you. You can only ask to be mentioned, you have no legal ground though.

They should credit you tbh, that´s just good manners.

I agree that credit is the best outcome.

The arm-chair lawyer in me would quibble with the notion that TFP has all the rights and that he has none. I think the TOS means TFP is granted a license, not ownership. That said, whatever got created needs TFP's game to exist. Also, if you included POIs and Tiles created by TFP then you have a derivative work.

None of that specifies what a third party gets, which is why I think its handy for a creator to express their preferences and hope that people abide by that. If it gets distributed then any player can basically take it apart. If everyone runs wild ripping each other off then it will demotivate the modders.

But all of that is uninformed speculation that will go no further because nobody is going to go to court over this as that would be a sure way for everyone involved to lose money. So...

Credit is nice.

 

[theFlu]

license

To be more specific:
"you hereby grant Licensor an exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, fully transferable and sub-licensable worldwide right and license to use your contributions in any way and for any purpose in connection with the Software and related goods and services, including the rights to reproduce, copy, adapt, modify, perform, display, publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise communicate to the public by any means whether now known or unknown and distribute your contributions without any further notice or compensation to you of any kind for the whole duration of protection granted to intellectual property rights by applicable laws and international conventions. You hereby waive any moral rights of creation, paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to Licensor’s and other players’ use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Software and related goods and services under applicable law. This license grant to Licensor, and the above waiver of any applicable moral rights, survives any termination of this License."

"License" indeed.
That "exclusive" excludes you too, btw.

 

[zztong]

That "exclusive" excludes you too, btw.

If that's true then that's where an arm-chair lawyer like me get knocked on our butts. But I don't think it is.

If it were true, then isn't the creator prohibited from distributing what they created? Everything we made available via NexusMods, 7D2DMods, GitHub, etc would be in violation of the game's terms. Aren't NexusMods and 7D2DMods prohibited from distributing the mods?

In my arm-chair lawyer perspective, if the terms mean what you say they do, then TFP has undercut their own license for years by tolerating creators making and distributing mods and made it such that I think a court will rule that part of the terms are unenforcable. I believe this is called something like "Waiver by Conduct."

You hereby waive any moral rights of creation, paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to Licensor’s and other players’ use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Software and related goods and services under applicable law.

I do stand corrected on this point. I had forgotten the terms included TFP giving everyone else rights to use and enjoy your creations. That seems to be directly on-point to the OP's objections. Thanks for sharing the license and refreshing my memory.

 

[zztong]

That "exclusive" excludes you too, btw.

In thinking more about this, I can see what you're saying and you might be right. But then why am I being allowed to distribute my mods? Shouldn't I just surrender them to TFP?

You hereby waive any moral rights of creation, paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to Licensor’s and other players’ use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Software and related goods and services under applicable law.

Unless I become an "other player" and distribution is part of "use and enjoyment." Is that how it works?

 

[theFlu]

If it were true, then isn't the creator prohibited from distributing what they created?

Yes. My non-lawyer, at best a hobbyist, understanding is that an "Exclusive License" is the closest thing to "transfer of ownership" when it comes to copyright. The owner EDIT: author is "re-granted" rights to distribute "content" later on in the EULA - that wouldn't happen if the earlier part didn't remove them.

Spoiler

IV. VIDEO MONETIZATION AND AD REVENUE
Anyone who has purchased or has received a gift or press release copy of the Software has permission or rights to monetize their video work <snip>

Wrt Modding, All of the "scope for the content" seem to stem from:
"The Software may allow you to create content, including but not limited to a gameplay map, screenshot or a video of your game play."

Paraphrasing
- "Recordings of game play" and
- "content created By Use of the game".

Mods obviously don't fit the recordings part; but I also read the reference to "gameplay map" as "files (algorithmically) generated by the SW". (EDIT3: Think RWG maps and save files, "any output of the SW") Mods aren't created by the game, they're external code to edit the game. I think this is a legal distinction. Of course, one can argue "not limited to" makes it fuzzy - but "SW allowing to create content" isn't modified by that.
- I don't think the EULA even tries to govern making of mods, with that language. It'd be more specific if it did, it would refer to mods separately somehow.
- I'm somewhat unsure of this, mostly because it was such a hubbub earlier, and that caused me to doubt the above. But that's the angle I'd take if I wanted to challenge the EULA wrt mods in a court.

EDIT2:
There's a few other things I'd like to point out, couple:
- the early part of EULA actually forbids modding.. "You agree not to: <snip> Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, prepare derivative works based on or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part"
- the section granting video monetization rights, doesn't actually grant rights to the publishing itself ...

 

[zztong]

Yes. My non-lawyer, at best a hobbyist, understanding is that...

Thanks for the extended analysis.

The terms and TFP's comments and actions have appeared to me to be harmlessly inconsistent. If anything related to mods were ever taken to court (and didn't end in a quiet settlement) I'd go find some popcorn and be very curious how it turns out.

If I had any quibbles with the license is it unclear to me what rights TFP wants a creator to have. If they like modders, then it wouldn't be "nothing."

When we talk about TFP's assets (code, artwork/blocks, POIs) things are clear. If a modder borrows those, then its a derivative work.

In terms of POIs, if I were to copy part of a TFP POI and then modify it then... derivative work. (I admit I have some in my POI pack. I don't dispute that.)

But when a POI creator assembles blocks in a form that was not influenced by TFP, I don't think that's a derivative work. I say that because nothing about the POI's files includes TFP's code or artwork. Those files contain references (numbers) that express the POI. Those numbers map to artwork and behavior that is part of the game, but the assets themselves aren't in those POI files. That's my unique expression of my house, for example.

The makers of brushes and paints don't get to claim resulting artwork is a derivative of their work. The Prefab Editor and World Builder I think are equivalent tools that I purchased.

Rhetorically: Do creators really have no rights?

 

[theFlu]

If I had any quibbles with the license is it unclear to me what rights TFP wants a creator to have. If they like modders, then it wouldn't be "nothing."

It's an entire .. mess. In my humble opinion. It doesn't match TFPs continually stated intentions, marketing it as "Easy to mod" and organizing an entire "creator sideshow" - while banning modding and distributing in the letter of the text. Now that TFP no longer runs the show, well, BI doesn't need to change the license to take down EVERY piece of video and monetize all your POIs.

Well, their POIs The POI creator .. in the letter of the text, it is given no special consideration. It is simply a part of "The SOFTWARE". And any content created with it, would likely constitute specifically "a gameplay map", separately mentioned in the legalese. It's not a full map in "game terms", but it's undeniably "a level", which is interchangeable with "map" (no idea of any actual legal interpretations, but I would be really surprised if this difference was somehow significant). I didn't even think of POIs earlier, they seem to fit perfectly - sadly, maybe. Not sad if you trust BI, ofc ..

IMHO, a mess; born from the relatively reasonable indie attitude of "we'd never do anything bad ourselves, so let's just go with strict security".

EDIT: The video side is interesting .. since the gameplay footage belongs to TFP/BI, does Fair Use apply at all? They've never published it, so the person publishing their own footage is basically leaking it. After a leak, fair use might be easier to argue, but does the act of "first publishing" carry different implications..?

 

[Gamida]

You haven't given any details that are all that useful. But keep in mind a few points:

• Anything you make using tools from this game or assets from this game (a map with vanilla POI is using assets from this game regardless of how you made the map) belongs to TFP. So if someone "steals" it, they are stealing from TFP rather than from you. See the TOS/EULA for details.
• If you make a map public, it's pretty much fair game. You can include information stating that it should not be used without your express permission, and some people will actually follow that, but once it's released, you have no real control over who uses it or how they use it. This is true for pretty much any maps or mods you might make for any game out there.
• Copyrights can protect your original works, but they can be far more trouble than it's worth to actually try to deal with courts over that, especially if someone is using your map or mod without making money off it (which isn't allowed by TFP anyhow). About the most you could really expect to get from such a case is a cease and desist order, and even that is probably more trouble than it is worth.
• If the map/etc. is being made available online, such as through a site like Nexus, your best option is to contact that site and let them know of the issue and if you can prove it, then there is a good chance they'll take it down. TFP isn't really the right people to talk to about this as they aren't the ones in charge of whatever location your stuff is being posted.

I understand that it can be frustrating if someone takes your work and claims it as their own. And I certainly support trying to get credit for your work. But at the same time, since there's no money involved and you did it so people can enjoy the work, is it really that bad that even more people are enjoying it than might otherwise have done so? Is credit more important than letting people enjoy what you made? Obviously you want people to give credit, but if they don't, is it that big of a problem? Maybe it is.

I can see the first part of what you said, but I am having trouble with the second part.
I mean if that suddenly started happening to all the modders I don't see us getting any mods long after.
I suspect even the larger modder would just go "meh" after a while and not bother.
I empathize with the op but like everyone else not much I know can be done.