PC Steel unlocks too late / in the wrong order
- Thread starter Ghostlight
- Start date
Royal Deluxe
New member
You can have all items on Q6 with 90% of all mods you ever want and over 200 000 Coins on day 49 without any problems.
How do you come to the idea it would be underpowered ?
Its pretty obvious why i think crafting is underpowered.
1) You loot or trade for an item to get it.
No requirments on this beyond luck with RNG. You will find mods for the weapon as you are alreadly looting for the weapon itself.
2) you grind litteral hours of XP before you can craft an item. You have no mods for it because those are a loot only item. And you were not looting while *presumably* crafting to level up. You have a higher gamestage and as a result tougher enemies to fight.
Crafting the thing is (excessively) gated, finding it as loot isnt. You are also forced to loot after crafting the item anyway because thats what the mod system is there for: to make crafted items weak as piss without you looting rare items.
Looting/trading is over powered.
If the devs are so set on us having strict defined stages and tool progression... stop letting looting and trading bypass them.
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For clarity im fine with loot only items being tied to progression (skill books, tool & die set) if they make sense. Im not fine with having to grind 80 levels and loot 6 rare items before i can make a pickaxe that dosent suck.
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Royal Deluxe
New member
So you ask for a gameplay
Level int up
Mine a few days and collect other stuff
Produce a ton of Tools/weapons/Armor, sell them, buy more ressources
Produce a ton of Tools/weapons/Armor, sell most of them, keep a complete set for yourself
Game over
The point is that Looting need much more time and can keep the player busy for a much longer time
Level int up
Mine a few days and collect other stuff
Produce a ton of Tools/weapons/Armor, sell them, buy more ressources
Produce a ton of Tools/weapons/Armor, sell most of them, keep a complete set for yourself
Game over
The point is that Looting need much more time and can keep the player busy for a much longer time
HungryZombie
New member
And much more risk of death.
The game dosent end for me once i have high quality items, thats when the actual fun part of the game (building) begins. Finally able to dig at a decent speed or harvest wood from trees without it feeling like my character has a massive nerf sign around thier neck.
I have not been in support of traders being a part of the game since they were implemented so im defiantly not asking for whatever you are trying to say.
Iv said it pretty simply: being able to loot or trade for items out of progression order is bad. If you cant craft an iron fireaxe you shouldnt find it as loot.
The developers have said that they want player level to be indicative of players progession... and then given looting/trading a free pass to bypass this... why? I really want to understand.
Royal Deluxe
New member
Why loot a difficult poi if you cant get anything nice in it
FileMachete
New member
I know this wouldn't work w the current setup but was thinking back to an MMORPG I played years ago.
They set it up so the player crafters made the best weapons & armor. You could buy basic gear that was ~90%, and quest rewards that were almost as good, but they kept it so player made was always the best. Just a thought.
They set it up so the player crafters made the best weapons & armor. You could buy basic gear that was ~90%, and quest rewards that were almost as good, but they kept it so player made was always the best. Just a thought.
Ghostlight
New member
Same here. I ask again why Steel is considered endgame when endgame is level 300 and whatever gamestage comes at level 300.
Royal Deluxe
New member
Was it easy to get the skill ?I know this wouldn't work w the current setup but was thinking back to an MMORPG I played years ago.
They set it up so the player crafters made the best weapons & armor. You could buy basic gear that was ~90%, and quest rewards that were almost as good, but they kept it so player made was always the best. Just a thought.
Was every material easy obtainable ? (well except glue)
Ghostlight
New member
As far as looting goes....
Because it gives the player that little spurt of joy because they just found an item that will change their game.
You used to get these joyous moments all the time in A16 (blueprints and gun parts for example) but they are almost gone completely in A17, because eventually you just get everything through perks.
Those little joys of finding an item out of progression are pretty much all A17 has in that regard. It's a shadow of A16 in terms of delivering the sheer joy of RNG going your way when looting. In fact - with the except of a few game-changing mods - out of progression items are all A17 has going for it in terms of making the player want to go loot. I find that pretty sad.
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I said somthing similar myself yesterday:
Finding a blue shotgun reciver early in the game was a buzz.
Finding a item you can attach to a shotgun is not, for me at least, anywhere close to the same enjoyment.
One felt like you found a vital part of a full shotgun, the other feels like you found a bit f junk you can stick to it for more damage.
But 'i dyed my pickaxe red so it does more damage' is where we are now. This used to be a deep and complex game, dying your weapon blue for a stat boost is neither.
FileMachete
New member
Easy to get? Heck no!
It was well balanced to the overall game pace. Early being the first few weeks. Late being >6 months.And it was the most expensive thing you could choose to do in the game. Crafters burned through a butt-ton of coin leveling their skills, so a solo player had either already leveled their 'main' toon to end game, and then continued farming for coin for weeks. Or they were part of a guild that invested in their crafting.
Even after the devs had significantly reduced the lvl grind (took about half the time to get a lvl 50 toon) I spent about 300 hours leveling a crafter up to the highest lvl (just the crafting part). Cost me 80% of all my coin and never did recoup my investment, heh. Having to deal directly w players, haggling over prices, etc. just said fugetaboutit!
(they later on added in a way to have a 'shop' so you could just set a price & sell your wares)
Materials were readily available (but increasingly expensive), until the last few lvls. Those you had to grind/quest for. It was the thousands & thousands of weapons you had to make to gain skill points. Basically spam crafting.
A17 in a nutshell: Kill zombies until you get to lv70~100 so you can actually start mining/building/crafting.
First 70 levels, invest in Lucky Looter and INT, get bike/minibike. Use the Nerdy glasses for additional XP bonus. Get Automatic Weapons/Boom Headshot as stronger zombies begins to spawn. After that whatever build/craft/production perk you want to get you need to kill even more zombies for the skill points.
Call it balanced if you want. Is it fun thou?
Beating and shooting zombies feel exactly the same as before so for me it is the same bit of the fun. Crafting/Building/mining on the otherhand has been pretty much 80% removed from the game until you reach that later level.
You may say "dude you could have just invest in crafting/building early so you can start right off the bat". No you can't because there is this level gate for steel perk and etc. And if you over commit in those you can have difficultly looting POI later because at higher level you do need those combat related perk to be able to kill those green zombies(or really just a downgraded ghoul from fallout crossover if you think about it). So it only make sense to spend the points in combat on early levels, not at later.
Eddit: Honestly I think they should remove all perk level gate. If players decided to rush say steel perk early, they will have very few points on other perks which in a way already balanced it out.
First 70 levels, invest in Lucky Looter and INT, get bike/minibike. Use the Nerdy glasses for additional XP bonus. Get Automatic Weapons/Boom Headshot as stronger zombies begins to spawn. After that whatever build/craft/production perk you want to get you need to kill even more zombies for the skill points.
Call it balanced if you want. Is it fun thou?
Beating and shooting zombies feel exactly the same as before so for me it is the same bit of the fun. Crafting/Building/mining on the otherhand has been pretty much 80% removed from the game until you reach that later level.
You may say "dude you could have just invest in crafting/building early so you can start right off the bat". No you can't because there is this level gate for steel perk and etc. And if you over commit in those you can have difficultly looting POI later because at higher level you do need those combat related perk to be able to kill those green zombies(or really just a downgraded ghoul from fallout crossover if you think about it). So it only make sense to spend the points in combat on early levels, not at later.
Eddit: Honestly I think they should remove all perk level gate. If players decided to rush say steel perk early, they will have very few points on other perks which in a way already balanced it out.
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OnlyMeiya
New member
I did tell TFP that something along the lines of a META-Linear leveling up system would likely take place and what you've described is almost exactly what I've done after I've been leveling up.
They want diverse class specific builds yet the game is now pretty much designed against that.
If they wanted class specific characters, then they should have made class specific perk/skill trees, that's the only way you'll achieve that.
I have same thinking. Its a dumb solution so You can build motor bike but You are too stupid to craft pice of steel mounted to Your chest. Steel is used in any vehicle in the world so its should be discovered before You can construct more complicated things like vehicles or guns.
Bicouse of that level gate I dont have fun any more. For example I want to build a underground bunker. No possible to do it at beggining so I had build any think to protect my self, thank grind, grind, grind, grind for many hours. Finally I can build what I planned and realize I dont want to. My storage is full of loot and good stuff, discovered huge are on map, visited a lot of cities-POIs and spend so much time in this game so I dont want play any more.
Its frustrating so every Dev Teams do same mechanic in every game no matter if players complain about them. And every time Devs made same mistake with order research. Its simple way to solve that. Just Same solution as in one of Dayz mods for Arma 2 what I played loong time ago. For example to fix a car in this mod or craft some more complicaterd things it was important to find very rare items like engine parts etc.
Its frustrating so every Dev Teams do same mechanic in every game no matter if players complain about them. And every time Devs made same mistake with order research. Its simple way to solve that. Just Same solution as in one of Dayz mods for Arma 2 what I played loong time ago. For example to fix a car in this mod or craft some more complicaterd things it was important to find very rare items like engine parts etc.
JCrook1028
New member
Lol, Roland to the rescue!
