PC Steel unlocks too late / in the wrong order

[BobTheBard]

Why does everyone have this mentality that they need to craft everything? Steel can be harvested and purchased and found in loot. Level 70 isn't a grind, I made it to level 50 with the gimped harvest xp by day 18. Thats less than 18 hours of real time. There needs to be wants and needs, and there needs to be stages. Why is it a rush to get to end game in 2 hours? Anyhow we are most likely adding an XP slider so those who disagree with the default pace of the game can speed it up, or slow it down. We're looking at level gates too.
We're making vehicle recipes ungated too, so anyone can build a vehicle, but it takes the perks to craft the parts. This will allow looters with low to moderate int to build a vehicle.

To me its fun finding what I need. I don't like sitting in a bunker and making everything from 5 mats like in Rust. Needs give you purpose.

I don't mean to be a smartass here, but you call this game 'The Survival Horde Crafting Game.' Crafting is the fourth word in there. The second and third major feature you list on the Steam Store both call to how prominent crafting things is meant to be. You as a developer asking why people might want to craft everything when your promotional materials repeatedly highlight it as an integral part of the game is pretty worrying to me as a player.

On a more substantial point, 'Why is there a rush to end the game in two hours?' is a good question, and I believe I can tell you the answer. If everybody wants to race to the end game it usually means that the early game isn't as fun. This may be colored by my personal perceptions, but I think there's a good case to be made that the game is objectively better at level 50 or so. If you build an intricate system that emphasizes giving people options and encourages diversification, like the perk system, then that means the early game is going to be very samey because you don't have the points to spread out, you can't diversify, and you're forced into one of a few optimal paths just to survive. Additionally, for a builder type like me the early game is terrible due to extremely limited tool selection until level 20 (10 if you get lucky enough to find a full assortment of iron tools in Working Stiff crates) and the fact harvesting isn't worth anything XP-wise until you get iron tools and near-max harvesting skills. My play experience didn't become enjoyable, even with a friend, until about level 45-50 when I could get a decent amount of XP without fighting and had enough perk points to do a decent amount of what I wanted to do.

I also think the 'Only 18 real time hours of play' line is a bit out of touch. 18 real-time hours in a game is a fairly long time. According to Steam Spy, the current two-week mean time played for 7 Days is approximately nine hours, which means that the average player would take almost a month to reach level 50 under your conditions. Heck, I've been binging on the game lately due to a friend of mine really loving it, with multiple play sessions lasting 4-5 hours, and I've still only logged 40 hours in the last two weeks. 18 hours is not a trivial time for the average player.

 

[Morloc]

Steel is EARLY game for me, as it was in A16. Once you get it, you can start really bumping up that gamestage to see if your base can handle it.

I get that; but if the "early game" progression is merely a speed-bump for you to get to the real meat of full strength zombie fightin', then why not just edit yourself to that point?

I mean, a lot of us have played this game a lot for a long time .....no shame in skipping the intro, but for those who are just starting, or aren't amazing gamers, I'd think they should have a reasonable* progression to work through.

*As defined by the game developers before anyone asks.

-Morloc

 

[CoolJ]

Again, and I'm getting very tired of reiterating myself. I'll highlight it so it sticks.

Most of the steel items you unlock prior to unlocking steel itself are luxury items, you don't need them but they're nice if you're lucky to farm/find or trader the few bars you need for it.

No, all of the perks in the game are luxury items. Remember how we already established that you don't need a single one of them to play the game?

The perks you choose do not deserve more merit because you chose them. The reason this little quip of yours keeps being ignored is because it is not a fact. It is a statement of your opinion. While it remains a fact that you unlock things you cannot use for a long time. Which is a waste of points.

 

[Armor9]

To me its fun finding what I need. I don't like sitting in a bunker and making everything from 5 mats like in Rust. Needs give you purpose.

Yet when it comes to skill book you said you DON'T find it fun to find the forge book, etc. So it is only some things you find fun to have to find. I think the skill books were the best thing that happened to the game and then they got taken out.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

No, all of the perks in the game are luxury items. Remember how we already established that you don't need a single one of them to play the game?The perks you choose do not deserve more merit because you chose them. The reason this little quip of yours keeps being ignored is because it is not a fact. It is a statement of your opinion. While it remains a fact that you unlock things you cannot use for a long time. Which is a waste of points.

There is a difference between luxury and efficiency. We buy most perks to play the game more efficiently.

(More harvest with each strike, less ammo with every shot, more crops with every punch less stam every tick hit harder, stronger, faster ) The mid game essentially is the point in which the player is thriving from efficiency that they can play comfortably, versus the beginning of the game which was an atrocious grind and a struggle just to get by.

That's the key word there,

Comfort

Luxury is the next step. You're skipping a tier.

You have many many alternatives to what you're trying to do and eventually, (Probably faster than you realize) you'll have what you want anyway and all you've done is look really silly with all this arguing and trying to assert your entitlement because the devs did something you don't understand.

You're really going about this all the wrong way really, if you want a better shotgun just up your lucky looter, put on a pair of lucky goggles and go safe/crate cracking, you'll find something decent enough probably faster than going to level 10/10 int crafting flawless items.

My point is you only see it one way, yours. You want so very much to be right and you can't stand anyone telling you anything different it seems.

Look for solutions, work around, not be that annoying blonde at star bucks that insists she get a fast pass lane to the front of the line just because she popped out a couple of crotch fruits.

 

[Katitof]

Steel is EARLY game for me, as it was in A16. Once you get it, you can start really bumping up that gamestage to see if your base can handle it.

That's a problem of your approach then as steel is THE end game material for all end game items.

If there is literally nothing above it, its the end game, if you consider it anything else then end game, then you have wrong approach.

Also, you can build cobblestone base and it'll last pretty much as long as steel one during horde night if you'll try to build walls for Zs to hit.

There is zero reaso to ever build anything out of steel unless for structural integrity, because how hordes now work, durability is of little relevance in A17.

So if building is end game for you, then that end game is unlocked the very moment you can get decent amount of cobblestones.

As for the steel itself, I also am closing to it, but not just at it, yet I have all the items I wanted to craft using steel by getting it from other srouces.

It is NOT the case that material unlocks AFTER you can craft items with it.

The case is: you CAN build end game items early if you scavenge for the materials in the right places.

 

[manni44]

That's a problem of your approach then as steel is THE end game material for all end game items.If there is literally nothing above it, its the end game, if you consider it anything else then end game, then you have wrong approach.

Also, you can build cobblestone base and it'll last pretty much as long as steel one during horde night if you'll try to build walls for Zs to hit.

There is zero reaso to ever build anything out of steel unless for structural integrity, because how hordes now work, durability is of little relevance in A17.

So if building is end game for you, then that end game is unlocked the very moment you can get decent amount of cobblestones.

This only works in B240 right now but u cant tell if it works in B241...... get out of ur Box

 

[madmole]

I think forged steel is unlocked at level 35 now.

 

[Damocles]

I think its good to keep steel from crafting for quite some time.

Keep giving the player another goal to progress to, without keeping it out of the game completely.

But the traders should be assured to always have some in stock (in varying amount).

Also as an economic drain for found loot...

 

[CoolJ]

There is a difference between luxury and efficiency. We buy perks to play the game more efficiently. You have many many alternatives to what you're trying to do and eventually, (Probably faster than you realize) you'll have what you want anyway and all you've done is look really silly with all this arguing and trying to assert your "entitlement" because the devs did something you don't understand.

No there is no difference. None of the perks in the game are required to play it. For you to insinuate that the ones you feel are important are the only ones that are, is laughable. Also, we have another person who doesn't understand the usage of the term "Entitlement". Which is the expectation of a reward that one did not work for. It has already been established that I did indeed work for it and I have completed the games requirements to use it. Yet I cannot.

You're really going about this all the wrong way really, if you want a better shotgun just up your lucky looter, put on a pair of lucky goggles and go safe/crate cracking, you'll find something decent enough probably faster than going to level 10/10 int crafting flawless items.

Right, the wrong way to go about getting a better shotgun is not to perk into building shotguns. I should have instead chosen some other marginally related perk that still will not guarantee that I get a better shotgun. Seems logical.

My point is you only see it one way, yours. You want so very much to be right and you can't stand anyone telling you anything different it seems.

You are correct. I only see it one way. Because there is only one correct way to see it. Plenty of people think the earth is flat. Doesn't change the fact that they are wrong.

Look for solutions, work around, not be that annoying blonde at star bucks that insists she get a fast pass lane to the front of the line just because she popped out a couple of crotch fruits.

The solution is for TFPs to fix the inconsistency that they created when they made a decision that had further reaching harmful effects that they failed to predict. Comparing me to a mother with children doesn't really make much sense. I would be inclined to agree and allow her ahead of me just so she can get out of there faster. There by lessening the suffering of my self and those around me. Besides, my coffee comes from a pot in the kitchen. The most offensive thing anyone has said to me today is this insinuation that I would ever purchase coffee from a Starbucks.

- - - Updated - - -

I think forged steel is unlocked at level 35 now.

Perfect. That really is all that needs to be done. Certainly if the int requirement is still 8.

 

[Ghostlight]

That's a problem of your approach then as steel is THE end game material for all end game items.If there is literally nothing above it, its the end game, if you consider it anything else then end game, then you have wrong approach.

I do not consider "things" as endgame. I consider gamestage of a certain value endgame. The things I have are irrelevant; if I am not fighting the full strength the zombies can throw at me, it isn't endgame.

Also, you can build cobblestone base and it'll last pretty much as long as steel one during horde night if you'll try to build walls for Zs to hit.

We refuse to cheese the AI.

That said, the above sentence is utter nonsense. To get to our Steel walls, the horde has to get through an outer fence of barbed wire and iron bars. After that, 2 layers of blade traps with electric fence wires running all over the ground where they are. And 3 auto-turrets per side backing that up. Then 3 layers of spike traps. And only THEN do they reach our outer walls (because we have this on all 4 sides of the base). And during all this 4 of us are standing firing outwards from a "shark cage" of iron bars that sits just above the main outer wall. Very few zombies actually get to the walls, relatively speaking, thus meaning the difference between Steel and Cobblestone is gigantic. Absolutely gigantic.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

No there is no difference. None of the perks in the game are required to play it. For you to insinuate that the ones you feel are important are the only ones that are, is laughable. Also, we have another person who doesn't understand the usage of the term "Entitlement". Which is the expectation of a reward that one did not work for. It has already been established that I did indeed work for it and I have completed the games requirements to use it. Yet I cannot.

There IS a huge difference between those perks if there wasn't then you wouldn't be crying over it so badly. There are so many other things that need to be balanced and tweaked but this is the one that you raise total chaos over.

Right, the wrong way to go about getting a better shotgun is not to perk into building shotguns. I should have instead chosen some other marginally related perk that still will not guarantee that I get a better shotgun. Seems logical.

You shouldn't perk for high intelligence just because of you wanting to create stronger guns, you want it so you can craft better tools and armor since that opens up far more of the game for you once you can create stronger iron and steel tools, if you perked for higher looting your chances of getting a stronger shotgun are much higher since they are a very common loot item, thats just smarter to do, you can still do it your inferior way if you want. I'm just trying to give you advice.

You are correct. I only see it one way. Because there is only one correct way to see it. Plenty of people think the earth is flat. Doesn't change the fact that they are wrong.

Delusional much? You're so full of yourself at this point I'm losing all/any interesting in trying to talk with you about the subject. The earth being round is something you can google and image or youtube the ISS to prove that its not flat, you're not proving your way is the correct way, just advocating it, so lets take our ego down a notch, you're at a 15, bring it back down to a 6 or a 7.

The solution is for TFPs to fix the inconsistency that they created when they made a decision that had further reaching harmful effects that they failed to predict. Comparing me to a mother with children doesn't really make much sense. I would be inclined to agree and allow her ahead of me just so she can get out of there faster. There by lessening the suffering of my self and those around me. Besides, my coffee comes from a pot in the kitchen. The most offensive thing anyone has said to me today is this insinuation that I would ever purchase coffee from a Starbucks.

Did you see where madmole already posted that steel is being switched to be available at level 35?

Is there oversights? Yes, people are human, the devs are too, but you're seriously acting like a spoiled brat that wants it their way lol, some things suck but most of us look for a work around or a solution to it in the mean time, this doesn't kill your playstyle nearly as much as mine if you consider the state of PVP right now with only 1 claim block, we've had some topics about that already but we aren't demanding a fix, once TFP said they are working on a resolution we left it at that, you should do the same.

I'm comparing your "Entitlement" to that of a mother who insists she gets to be first in line because shes a mother of kids who keep her up at night and everyone else has lesser chaotic lives and are well rested. I'm not stating "You" personally.

 

[Morloc]

There IS a huge difference between those perks if there wasn't then you wouldn't be crying over it so badly. There are so many other things that need to be balanced and tweaked but this is the one that you raise total chaos over.

...because the boy wants a purple shotgun!!! Seriously, weren't you listening??

The logic at work:

No perks are required, therefore all perks are equal. I'd say that's an association fallacy. Clearly some perks are better than others. If you took a pole, and asked people to rate 10 perks on desirability from 1 to 10, you'd find consensus with the results. Outliers?....certainly, but ultimately there'd be identifiable, popular perks.

No more food for the thread goblins though...this one's got a stake in it and feeding it further is just cruel.

-Morloc

 

[SenpaiThatIngnoresYou]

I'm still feeling out the new system, but I do have a slight problem with it. I have dozens of guns (week one) and no way to maintain or upgrade them. I believe I am level 28. I even found a pistol book somewhere, but it is obviously not used to learn from now. I also have steel tools, some nice ones, and no way to repair them. Think steel axe, pick, and one shovel. So now I have to go for weeks hoping to keep finding them? Seems odd. Also, I have found maybe ten or twelve bars of steel.
Either way I am still giving this system a chance, but it feels very off. I am still in week one and have steel everything and no way to repair it reliably. Overall I am enjoying A17, but the crafting side seems to need some work, perhaps on the new skill system. Oh well, it's alpha and changes will come down the pipe as time allows.

Yeah, i don't like the repair system. I think instead of a repair kit for the gun, it needs to be a gun cleaning session. Gun cleaning should take a few minutes. Based on your weapon skill, there should be a % chance that you botch the cleaning and downgrade the weapon, and on the flip side a % that you upgrade it.

With the steel tools, why do we need steel to repair them? we are not reforging them, just fixing damaged stuff on the tool. Duct tape seems to be a better concept for fixing tools than iron or steel. For stone tools, they should end up like the bone shivs and just break, maybe break down into components. bone shivs should break down into bone dust, and that should also be a glue material...

 

[LuckyStar]

The old steel was gated as well. If anything it was just about the same level.
Getting lucky and finding some steel or buying it from a trader, or if you know the game well, you can harvest certain objects to get forged iron and steel, and those are surprisingly abundant if you know where to look.

I don't see a problem with how it is right now.

Yeah you can get enough steel if you're looking for it, provided RWG gives you enough Wasteland to search.

Those pole tops give Forged Iron and Forged Steel and take very little to wrench.

Problem is..... RWG sucks atm.

Though... it's gotten so much better and I foresee it being great by the time TFP are done tweaking it.

 

[WolfyBlah]

There is a difference between luxury and efficiency. We buy most perks to play the game more efficiently.(More harvest with each strike, less ammo with every shot, more crops with every punch less stam every tick hit harder, stronger, faster ) The mid game essentially is the point in which the player is thriving from efficiency that they can play comfortably, versus the beginning of the game which was an atrocious grind and a struggle just to get by.

That's the key word there,

Comfort

Luxury is the next step. You're skipping a tier.

You have many many alternatives to what you're trying to do and eventually, (Probably faster than you realize) you'll have what you want anyway and all you've done is look really silly with all this arguing and trying to assert your entitlement because the devs did something you don't understand.

You're really going about this all the wrong way really, if you want a better shotgun just up your lucky looter, put on a pair of lucky goggles and go safe/crate cracking, you'll find something decent enough probably faster than going to level 10/10 int crafting flawless items.

My point is you only see it one way, yours. You want so very much to be right and you can't stand anyone telling you anything different it seems.

Look for solutions, work around, not be that annoying blonde at star bucks that insists she get a fast pass lane to the front of the line just because she popped out a couple of crotch fruits.

Not leveling up your abilty to craft shotguns and instead leveling up skills related to looting. Thats this alpha in a nutshell, crafting is gated to hell but looting/trader isnt... why? Looting and the trader should offer more to the gameplay than being a progression skip.

Talk about only seeing things one way:

Some people want to actualy craft thier items in this game that is (at least in part) about crafting, turning around and going 'just loot it instead brah' is not very helpful, its even worse when the developers put in-place systems like this that strongly encourage a certain playstyle.

Its soooooo much easier to loot eg a steel fireaxe than it is to craft one and thats broken.

 

[Hek Harris]

Talk about only seeing things one way:Some people want to actualy craft thier items in this game that is (at least in part) about crafting, turning around and going 'just loot it instead brah' is not very helpful, its even worse when the developers put in-place systems like this that strongly encourage a certain playstyle.

Its soooooo much easier to loot eg a steel fireaxe than it is to craft one and thats broken.

What's the point to look for an item if you can easily craft it ? Conversely, if you don't find it, in the end, you can craft it. It's perfectly consistent in this game and it encourages both kinds of playstyles. If we listened to you, looting would no longer make sense.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

Not leveling up your abilty to craft shotguns and instead leveling up skills related to looting. Thats this alpha in a nutshell, crafting is gated to hell but looting/trader isnt... why? Looting and the trader should offer more to the gameplay than being a progression skip.
Talk about only seeing things one way:

Some people want to actualy craft thier items in this game that is (at least in part) about crafting, turning around and going 'just loot it instead brah' is not very helpful, its even worse when the developers put in-place systems like this that strongly encourage a certain playstyle.

Its soooooo much easier to loot eg a steel fireaxe than it is to craft one and thats broken.

I had to craft my iron tools as well as I never found any, nor have I found any steel tools despite 4/5 (+1 because I pop on lucky goggles before I loot crates) so no Its not a 1-sided mindset, I was saying you make the best with what you have, how your game is turning out with your RNG luck can influence where you spend your points.

I was level 102 before I found my tool and die set. I could have bought one from the trader, but I made the decision that I was doing fine with only iron arrows and I was finding enough ammo to keep me going through horde nights and thus I decided not to spend my dukes on it, electing to save my dukes to save up for Solar Panels and cells.

 

[WolfyBlah]

What's the point to look for an item if you can easily craft it ? Conversely, if you don't find it, in the end, you can craft it. It's perfectly consistent in this game and it encourages both kinds of playstyles. If we listened to you, looting would no longer make sense.

So if you can easily craft somthig its not worth looking for it as loot.

But if you dont find it as loot you can EVENTUALY craft it...

Sure sounds to me like one of those is vastly diffrent than the other: one is RNG and the other is just a massive time gate.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

I wish there would be a extra bar, lets name it "Focus"

The bar loads during a week and if full you can craft a Q6 Item (if your perks allow it)

Wold be in my opinion the best way to reduce the overpowered crafting

Q5 would be allways possible (if perk is taken)

+a 2% Chance that a item loose a quality level on repair