PC Steel unlocks too late / in the wrong order

Would hate that. I had in all games until now enough steel when i could make the motorcycle. Because i push for it from level 1 on.

Why gating it more ?

Wheres the benefit
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The benefit is called healthy gameplay pace.

Not all of the players are veterans of 5 years who just blindly rush to end game and min max everything to get there.

I welcome the changes that force me, as veteran, to go out of base and scavenge and build and that is one of them.

Plus, if you regularly visit traders, you'll never have problems with steel before being able to craft it.

 
The benefit is called healthy gameplay pace.Not all of the players are veterans of 5 years who just blindly rush to end game and min max everything to get there.

I welcome the changes that force me, as veteran, to go out of base and scavenge and build and that is one of them.

Plus, if you regularly visit traders, you'll never have problems with steel before being able to craft it.
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One word: Replayability.

Stretching out the game with level grinds or time gates or whatever else cripples replayabilty. If a player has to grind 50 levels in every new game they play... it gets old, fast.

Its not just a problem for those of us that have been around for too many alphas,anyone who plays will eventuly go 'i really cant be assed to grind 50 levels so i can craft this thing again.'

 
One word: Replayability.
Stretching out the game with level grinds or time gates or whatever else cripples replayabilty. If a player has to grind 50 levels in every new game they play... it gets old, fast.

Its not just a problem for those of us that have been around for too many alphas,anyone who plays will eventuly go 'i really cant be assed to grind 50 levels so i can craft this thing again.'
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You don't see replayability, I do.

Starting with different builds instead of ALWAYS going full crafting is not possible and viable option.

New AI ensures you can survive blood moons on cobblestone alone and the only thing you need int for now that you can't get otherwise are 3 end game vehicles.

For you its stretching the game out, for me its allowing me to take a different route.

Exclusively int is level gated and playing without more then 3 points in int is possible now.

If you feel like its too much for you to handle, don't cry for the progression to be dumbed down to the point where its non viable to play as anything else then crafting and just mod yourself what settings and limits you'd like.

Also, how many times you start over on average? I hardly doubt its more then 1 every couple of months, if you can't be arsed to "grind", then mod it out for yourself.

Also, stop ignoring the fact that "this thing" can be gotten much, much, MUCH earlier through quests, vendor or loot, depending on your very own choices.

Its not that you have to have certain level to get certain things, there isn't a single thing you can't have before unlocking it through int, except 3 end game vehicles. Its that you want to craft it yourself, while you most certainly don't have to due to other sources being there.

You no longer need knowledge to craft something to be able to repair it and there is zero reason to rush anything, unless you really have low patience and if you do, think again if this game is really for you, because you are complaining on a "grind" in a game that is made around grinding literally everything around you.

 
The issue, Katitof, is that it currently is it still limits choice, it just limits it in the opposite direction. It means you have to find or buy the stuff since you can't craft it until a completely impractical level. I'll admit that, as a crafter, I really didn't feel any sense of accomplishment at getting steel because by that point it was so late in the game that we already had everything. Steel tools aren't significantly better than iron ones, the best melee weapon is made of iron, steel takes too long to make to be useful in construction, and all those guns we found (several high-quality) could be repaired with repair kits we could already make. The only thing I find myself really needing steel for is building vehicles, and even then it's because my friend really wants a 4x4 (I'm fine with my minibike). So steel, as it currently stands, is gated so high as to be effectively meaningless for a crafter.

 
This IS balance.
We can discuss for hours if it make sense to gate the good stuff.

This change not that recipes that need Ressources you can not produce yourself (at that time) make sense.

What make no sense is that the player can craft everything in Q6.

Lategame is really to easy economywhise

And different to my meaning a few weeks ago, it make sense that Bones->Glue->Duct tape is so scarce.

If not you could have a few million Coins before day 49
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The old steel was gated as well. If anything it was just about the same level.

Getting lucky and finding some steel or buying it from a trader, or if you know the game well, you can harvest certain objects to get forged iron and steel, and those are surprisingly abundant if you know where to look.

I don't see a problem with how it is right now.

 
I think BobTheBard brings up an interesting point; why do you need a _bunch_ of Steel in A17?

Assume it's not to get Dukes. Based on reading a lot of comments on MP GS it sure sounds like MP players need to 'solve' for late-game zeds prior to having an adundance of Steel (my assumption). If that's the case then the previous mass consumer of Steel, upgrading blocks, is no longer really there, so to speak.

Seems possible that this one is circling around back to "content". Maybe adding a few things could rekindle a real drive to get to Steel?

Steel bars. Steel Spikes. Steel Darts. Yet, again, balance comes into play. If you've already 'solved' for everything then any upgrades beyond a working solution really aren't that important.

 
Based on reading a lot of comments on MP GS it sure sounds like MP players need to 'solve' for late-game zeds prior to having an adundance of Steel (my assumption).
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Players in multiplayer don't need steel for zeds, the veteran ones (like myself) Don't even need a base to defeat BMH, we can kite it while picking zeds off.

They need it against other players, but the 1 land claim block has truly destroyed multiplayer more than anything.

 
You don't see replayability, I do.
Starting with different builds instead of ALWAYS going full crafting is not possible and viable option.

New AI ensures you can survive blood moons on cobblestone alone and the only thing you need int for now that you can't get otherwise are 3 end game vehicles.

For you its stretching the game out, for me its allowing me to take a different route.

Exclusively int is level gated and playing without more then 3 points in int is possible now.

If you feel like its too much for you to handle, don't cry for the progression to be dumbed down to the point where its non viable to play as anything else then crafting and just mod yourself what settings and limits you'd like.

Also, how many times you start over on average? I hardly doubt its more then 1 every couple of months, if you can't be arsed to "grind", then mod it out for yourself.

Also, stop ignoring the fact that "this thing" can be gotten much, much, MUCH earlier through quests, vendor or loot, depending on your very own choices.

Its not that you have to have certain level to get certain things, there isn't a single thing you can't have before unlocking it through int, except 3 end game vehicles. Its that you want to craft it yourself, while you most certainly don't have to due to other sources being there.

You no longer need knowledge to craft something to be able to repair it and there is zero reason to rush anything, unless you really have low patience and if you do, think again if this game is really for you, because you are complaining on a "grind" in a game that is made around grinding literally everything around you.
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this game is not a grindy game.

it has been balanced to be a grind since Gazz joined the team.

the thing is im not 'crying' for the progression to be dumbed down, just the opposite, you do realise defending the current progression as deeper than previous versions is beyond backwards, with the new perk system this game has been dumbed down even more than previous, we went from a character being a complex collection of exponential XP curves and unquie skills... to a single level curve.

you had the exact same option to not craft things in a16, litteraly the only thing thats changed is now 'not crafting' has become the most forced crap ever: some of us actualy want to craft things in this crafting game.

I never ignored the fact that (lets make a steel fireaxe our example) can be got as loot, from traders or quests just the oposite: thats the thing i have a problem with. Let me get this stright, we have bared the crafting of steel untill level 70 because the developers dont want people getting steel tools early in the game? yes?

makes 0 sense to try and achive that by gating only the crafting of somthing behind a massive XP wall when it can be found as loot or bourght from a trader... remove them from loot and quest rewards untill after the player unlocks them = actualy balanced system that dosent ♥♥♥♥ on crafters for no other reason than 'hurr durr i like to loot all day everyday'.

as for how many times i 'start' on average, in alpha 15 and 16 i had 3 games running alongside each other on launch, and then restarted maybe 20 times in the time between 16.4 and 17e.

I never once complained about the steel gating in a16, beyond saying that the level needed (and thus time invested) per game was a bit high.

how many games of a17 am i playing? none, there is nothing in this alpha that is an improvement to the game i love.

Stil playing a16.4 with friends, probably will never move onto alpha 17: Hate the POIS and perk system with a passion.

 
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Progression.xml file. Change the values that bother you. Enjoy.
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Editing an xml file wont bring back action exp/skills.

Or Do you really belive that anyone here needs to be told that they can edit game progression in progression.xml?

What is the point of repeating the exact same things day in and day out? I swear a good % of the people on these forums just have

-just mod it

-its alpha

-its TFPS game 1!!1!1

Saved in a text file to copy spam the forums with.

The reason people keep postig the same negative feedback over and over isnt them wanting the game to fail with malicious intent like t he moderators/developers apparently see it.

No the reason is because those issues are ignored and unadressed, sometimes over years. Somthing i have complained about over and over is crafting timers. .. used to be an option and still could be with 5 mins of backend coding... instead i need to edit every single recipe...

Why do i keep complainig about this.... because nothing has changed. Not because im a super negative person or crying or whatever else people on this forum want to insult me with, because the issue is still there.

 
Players in multiplayer don't need steel for zeds, the veteran ones (like myself) Don't even need a base to defeat BMH, we can kite it while picking zeds off.
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Yup, baseless defense is the best! kill 'em in the streets! :smile-new:

They need it against other players, but the 1 land claim block has truly destroyed multiplayer more than anything.
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I disagree here.

For MP, the 1 (active) CB limit kills CB-spam griefing more than solid gameplay. (Why do you need to claim the whole map?)

I would say the CB limit "negatively" affects the single player experience moreso than the MP experience.

My answer to the "issues" that would arise from it, however, is to be more strategic in how you build.

Back on topic:

While I will admit that the recipe progression (as it relates to Steel) seems... off... It turned out to be irrelevant as we (my wife and I) had collected enough Forged Steel from looting/traders for all our immediate needs... now that she has unlocked Steel (I'm full gatherer, she's crafting/cooking)... We very quickly wound up with nearly a thousand sitting in our boxes... The funny part is that we make more, primarily just to empty out the Forge, so we can melt more iron into it (those boxes fill up fast).... <.< >.>

 
Traders exist.
And you know well that the moment steel becomes available, it becomes abundant.

Its balance, you want steel tools earlier or firearms, invest some dukes into it.
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There are 4 of us. We need a lot of Steel. Not only Steel equipment for 4, but also for the base. We are facing a 4-player horde every 7 days, that's gamestage over 3 x what a single person is facing and we chose not to exploit the AI.

One of us does a trader run (to the 3 traders we have found, one of which is 4km away) every 3 days and has been buying Steel whenever it was there. We have 20 Steel total on day 16. Most was used for repairing the Steel items we had found or bought.

And it takes a lot of (mining) effort to produce Steel in great quantities, it's not like you are flowing with Steel the moment you unlock it. If Steel came earlier and people abuse it, then they deserve to be able to abuse it because it takes a lot of time to mass the materials to do so. Time that could be spent doing many other productive things. Opportunity cost. If a player wants to forgo many other things he could do (like looting) to mine for hours on end so he can have mass Steel at the cost of many other things, why not let him? Wouldn't that just be more choice for the player? Another way to play?

 
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There are 4 of us. We need a lot of Steel. Not only Steel equipment for 4, but also for the base. We are facing a 4-player horde every 7 days, that's gamestage over 3 x what a single person is facing and we chose not to exploit the AI.
One of us does a trader run (to the 3 traders we have found, one of which is 4km away) every 3 days and has been buying Steel whenever it was there. We have 20 Steel total on day 16. Most was used for repairing the Steel items we had found or bought.

And it takes a lot of (mining) effort to produce Steel in great quantities, it's not like you are flowing with Steel the moment you unlock it. If Steel came earlier and people abuse it, then they deserve to be able to abuse it because it takes a lot of time to mass the materials to do so. Time that could be spent doing many other productive things. Opportunity cost. If a player wants to forgo many other things he could do (like looting) to mine for hours on end so he can have mass Steel at the cost of many other things, why not let him? Wouldn't that just be more choice for the player? Another way to play?
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because steel is the end game tool material. When they removed the level gates completely players were getting all the int stuff they needed right away and end up being overpowered super early on. Having one person in mp get all the forging perks and make steel tools on day 4 is very powerful. It means all their friends will now have all steel tools, guns at highest level etc....

also the 4 of you can all get various sources of iron and have steel overflowing easily. Make 2 forged, smelt down cans, pipes, etc... Use the wrench to break apart cars, fridges,stoves,etc... and get the pipes to smelt down and the plain iron. It's not hard to get tons of steel if the party works together. Or all of you have iron pickaxes and go picking boulders, birng back the raw iron.

 
1
Editing an xml file wont bring back action exp/skills.

Or Do you really belive that anyone here needs to be told that they can edit game progression in progression.xml?

What is the point of repeating the exact same things day in and day out? I swear a good % of the people on these forums just have

-just mod it

-its alpha

-its TFPS game 1!!1!1

Saved in a text file to copy spam the forums with.

The reason people keep postig the same negative feedback over and over isnt them wanting the game to fail with malicious intent like t he moderators/developers apparently see it.

No the reason is because those issues are ignored and unadressed, sometimes over years. Somthing i have complained about over and over is crafting timers. .. used to be an option and still could be with 5 mins of backend coding... instead i need to edit every single recipe...

Why do i keep complainig about this.... because nothing has changed. Not because im a super negative person or crying or whatever else people on this forum want to insult me with, because the issue is still there.
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i really do insist. I'm not saying that it will never change, remember TFP is on holiday. if you want to play NOW according to your own wishes / habits / preferences, you can do it EXTREMELY easily. You have exposed your concern, I give you a temporary solution, use it and you will see that it works. I do not even call it modding, it's just changing a few variables in a file.

Stop wanting things that TFP can not give you yet but that you can get very easily. And I do not say: "go do the modding and dismantle yourself", I give you the name of the file and promise you that it's easy.

Everyone has understood what some players want. But repeating it over all topics is of no use. We try to help you and you get upset immediately. It's a bit painful ^^.

Two words : Pimps, holiday.

 
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because steel is the end game tool material. When they removed the level gates completely players were getting all the int stuff they needed right away and end up being overpowered super early on. Having one person in mp get all the forging perks and make steel tools on day 4 is very powerful. It means all their friends will now have all steel tools, guns at highest level etc....

also the 4 of you can all get various sources of iron and have steel overflowing easily. Make 2 forged, smelt down cans, pipes, etc... Use the wrench to break apart cars, fridges,stoves,etc... and get the pipes to smelt down and the plain iron. It's not hard to get tons of steel if the party works together. Or all of you have iron pickaxes and go picking boulders, birng back the raw iron.
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If its so easy to amass a lot of steal then surely the process to craft steel should change rather than just adding a gate.

 
If its so easy to amass a lot of steal then surely the process to craft steel should change rather than just adding a gate.
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It's easy because we gather the stuff throughout the game, by time I unlock steel I have thousands of iron sitting around. By that point I've all ready started producing cement and am either done with or in the process of upgrading my horde night base to cement. Once I'm done with that I can focus on making steel for everything else.

irc a crucible is needed and thats the hardest part since it requires like 2000 stone or something.

 
It's pretty clear that there has to be some changes here. There are simply too many recipes that require bulk steel for it to be gated at 70. It essentially makes perks you buy a waste. I am pretty sure I unlocked special bolts and arrows around level 28. The early guns unlock way before 70. It takes 50 steel to make a shotgun. Which you will need to make if you intend to put any mods in your guns at all. Tier 2 and up schematics also require steel. The motorcycle requires 36 steel. Those are just wasted perk points. No, you cannot just ignore them and buy other things either. You would have a future requirement of something like 15 points when you hit 70 if you wait. So you either spend them on things as they unlock, or you stare at them in the skill tree.

I am getting to the point where I can't go into POIs or do quests anymore. I just don't have the firepower. I am level 59 and half of the enemies are feral or glowing. This orange shotgun is just not getting it done. I managed to buy enough steel from the trader to keep my wrench repaired and to make a nice flawless pistol. Yes, I can craft flawless items, but I can't craft a single steel arrowhead.

>Keep the ad hominem out of it please. OzHawkeye<

 
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i really do insist. I'm not saying that it will never change, remember TFP is on holiday. if you want to play NOW according to your own wishes / habits / preferences, you can do it EXTREMELY easily. You have exposed your concern, I give you a temporary solution, use it and you will see that it works. I do not even call it modding, it's just changing a few variables in a file.Stop wanting things that TFP can not give you yet but that you can get very easily. And I do not say: "go do the modding and dismantle yourself", I give you the name of the file and promise you that it's easy.

Everyone has understood what some players want. But repeating it over all topics is of no use. We try to help you and you get upset immediately. It's a bit painful ^^.

Two words : Pimps, holiday.
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Pointing me to a file and going 'bruh this is easy to fix' its not. Helpful.

I already know exactly how to mod the game to my preferences, iv been forced to do it more and more since alpha 11.

Telling me to go mod it and then acting like this is helpful advice is bordering on condescending.

If you re read he post youl see that the specific example i brought up is somthing that was removed as an option from the game years ago so its not about wanting it fixed while people turn in the new year, its about wanting the developers to at least adress the issue with more than 'we dont want players doing that'.

 
I am level 59 and half of the enemies are feral or glowing. This orange shotgun is just not getting it done.
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This, im lvl 56 and dont want to go to POIs anymore. Glowing z's at this stage are just not fun when you have to empty your shotgun to its head to kill it and its not alone.

 
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