PC Steel unlocks too late / in the wrong order

Ghostlight

Ghostlight

New member
I am not complaining about Steel coming too late in and of itself; if it has to be delayed to level 70 because that was the only way the devs could artificially lengthen the game fair enough, but it seems to come in the wrong order. Steel comes AFTER just about all the items that require it (Motorbikes, weapons, many mods). Sometimes up to 30 levels later. Feels dumb / a design error.

 
Traders exist.

And you know well that the moment steel becomes available, it becomes abundant.

Its balance, you want steel tools earlier or firearms, invest some dukes into it.

 
Traders exist.
And you know well that the moment steel becomes available, it becomes abundant.

Its balance, you want steel tools earlier or firearms, invest some dukes into it.
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That is the furthest thing from 'balance' ever.

Can you really not see the issue with needing level 70 to craft the resources to build a level 30 recipe?

Yes traders exsist, dosent mean we need ridiculous gates on things, not everyone uses traders and they shouldnt be forced as a part of the progression.

 
That is the furthest thing from 'balance' ever..
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This IS balance.

We can discuss for hours if it make sense to gate the good stuff.

This change not that recipes that need Ressources you can not produce yourself (at that time) make sense.

What make no sense is that the player can craft everything in Q6.

Lategame is really to easy economywhise

And different to my meaning a few weeks ago, it make sense that Bones->Glue->Duct tape is so scarce.

If not you could have a few million Coins before day 49

 
Madmole mentioned something about Steel being more available out in the world via scrapping/wrenching. I think anyway.

I can see the arguments from all sides here. It's a 'ding ding ding!' item. But it can also seem quite counterintuitive that so many recipes, that we _buy_ can't be completed without relying on RNG.

And I'm fully in the, "Don't make Traders -mandatory-!" camp.

Frankly I've been trying to avoid thinking about it. The Concrete Mixer gated to lvl 40 is bad enough already (we 'make' minibike at lvl 30). I've mixed concrete in wheel barrels, mortar in buckets, drenched a posthole w water then dumped in a bag of mix, etc.

 
How about just making steel craftable from the get go but have it take a lot longer to produce and require more resources (more iron and also add coal). Perks could then reduce time and resources required.

 
<snip>And different to my meaning a few weeks ago, it make sense that Bones->Glue->Duct tape is so scarce.If not you could have a few million Coins before day 49
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Yeah, like A16, but this one is an easy fix; either set Duct Tape/Glue to "No Sell" or limit Trader Stack size so they won't buy up to 1500 rolls.

Edit: same can be done for Steel, so it's not a get rich quick scheme.

 
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That is the furthest thing from 'balance' ever.
Can you really not see the issue with needing level 70 to craft the resources to build a level 30 recipe?

Yes traders exsist, dosent mean we need ridiculous gates on things, not everyone uses traders and they shouldnt be forced as a part of the progression.
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I don't see it sorry. Seems like they could just bar all steel tools then to lvl 70 then if allowing you to make things before you can forge steel bothers you so much. This way at least you can use steel for awhile if you can loot, buy or scrap it until you can forge it.

 
Not because i would sell the duct tape.

Because all things that give really nice Money need this ingredient.

With enough Glue you can make tons of Compound Bows, Crossbows, Pistols, Rifles, Armor, .....

Even with the current low available amounts i made over 300 000 Coins before day 50

 
maybe they need to rework steel and how to obtain it? been playing rust recently and their version of steel is simply way harder to accumulate compared to ours (in that game say mining a rock would give you 600 parts of iron and then 1-2 parts of steel, forcing you to rely on other means to get more steel like breaking down what you find)

 
maybe they need to rework steel and how to obtain it? been playing rust recently and their version of steel is simply way harder to accumulate compared to ours (in that game say mining a rock would give you 600 parts of iron and then 1-2 parts of steel, forcing you to rely on other means to get more steel like breaking down what you find)
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Builders will love that :D

I think u should be able to make steel around lvl 50-60 ish until they figure out what they want to do with the new skillsystem. At the moment its just a mess.

 
Not because i would sell the duct tape.Because all things that give really nice Money need this ingredient.

With enough Glue you can make tons of Compound Bows, Crossbows, Pistols, Rifles, Armor, .....

Even with the current low available amounts i made over 300 000 Coins before day 50
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ouch. ok, I got you now. that's not good. From what I've seen, but never past day 23 or so, there didn't look like any bad Trader exploits. Seems there are. Even w the max 3 of item X.

 
This IS balance.
We can discuss for hours if it make sense to gate the good stuff.

This change not that recipes that need Ressources you can not produce yourself (at that time) make sense.

What make no sense is that the player can craft everything in Q6.

Lategame is really to easy economywhise

And different to my meaning a few weeks ago, it make sense that Bones->Glue->Duct tape is so scarce.

If not you could have a few million Coins before day 49
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No, this is balance according to you, gating crafting the base resources more than the complex things it can make is completely backwards.

 
I'm still feeling out the new system, but I do have a slight problem with it. I have dozens of guns (week one) and no way to maintain or upgrade them. I believe I am level 28. I even found a pistol book somewhere, but it is obviously not used to learn from now. I also have steel tools, some nice ones, and no way to repair them. Think steel axe, pick, and one shovel. So now I have to go for weeks hoping to keep finding them? Seems odd. Also, I have found maybe ten or twelve bars of steel.

Either way I am still giving this system a chance, but it feels very off. I am still in week one and have steel everything and no way to repair it reliably. Overall I am enjoying A17, but the crafting side seems to need some work, perhaps on the new skill system. Oh well, it's alpha and changes will come down the pipe as time allows.

 
No, this is balance according to you, gating crafting the base resources more than the complex things it can make is completely backwards.
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Not really.... it doesn't seem strange to me to imagine someone that can work with steel without being able to actually fabricate steel.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm still feeling out the new system, but I do have a slight problem with it. I have dozens of guns (week one) and no way to maintain or upgrade them. I believe I am level 28. I even found a pistol book somewhere, but it is obviously not used to learn from now. I also have steel tools, some nice ones, and no way to repair them. Think steel axe, pick, and one shovel. So now I have to go for weeks hoping to keep finding them? Seems odd. Also, I have found maybe ten or twelve bars of steel.
Either way I am still giving this system a chance, but it feels very off. I am still in week one and have steel everything and no way to repair it reliably. Overall I am enjoying A17, but the crafting side seems to need some work, perhaps on the new skill system. Oh well, it's alpha and changes will come down the pipe as time allows.
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I also don't find this odd.... if I found a bunch of guns, I could certainly use them but wouldn't know the first thing about maintaining them. I'd learn eventually but at first, I'd just use them till the broke or until I found a better one.

 
I'm still feeling out the new system, but I do have a slight problem with it. I have dozens of guns (week one) and no way to maintain or upgrade them...
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Use the Q1 and Q2 guns, when they are broken scrap them

They do the same damage as a Q6, but cant hold mods (which make the Q6 stronger)

No more need to store huge amounts of guns, if you have enough repair kits and/or better guns you need not even one gun as reserve

 
No, this is balance according to you, gating crafting the base resources more than the complex things it can make is completely backwards.
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Ok then.

Can you make a sandwitch IRL?

Now then, can you make the bread? Flour? Yeast?

Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it any less true.

The balance is your own resource management.

You can have the tools if you looted/bought proper resources earlier.

We can now craft pretty much everything, it would be imbalanced if we had access to all the materials needed to do so too early, because then items that are supposed to be scarce at that level would become abundant.

Cry less and do quests/loot/buy from trader what you need.

You are supposed to use all these option for optimal play and refusal and denial about their use doesn't make it any less balanced then it is.

 
I don’t mind that forged iron and steel are not available until after some of the recipes that use them. I think it makes for a more interesting lead up to hose level tiers.

I think that the recipes that use large quantities maybe should be moved to be the same level as the resource. The motorcycle comes to mind as a recipe that could be looked at.

 
this is such an easy fix, if you have items that require steel at level 30 unlock steel crafting at level 30, simple as that. If you don't want us to rush into the steel tool age, keep steel tools gated, simple as that. Don't give us recipes that require an excess amount of steel in the early game and then say "now only 30 more levels and you can use that recipe! derp"

I have no idea why this hasn't been changed yet, or changed immediately when they made the recipes....

 
I don’t mind that forged iron and steel are not available until after some of the recipes that use them. I think it makes for a more interesting lead up to hose level tiers.
I think that the recipes that use large quantities maybe should be moved to be the same level as the resource. The motorcycle comes to mind as a recipe that could be looked at.
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Would hate that. I had in all games until now enough steel when i could make the motorcycle. Because i push for it from level 1 on.

Why gating it more ?

Wheres the benefit

 
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