PC Steam reviews - I kinda figured

[HungryZombie]

I haven't died on a horde yet, just made it through day 21. I just use 3 rows of spikes and drop molotovs on the big clusters of them, and I have 24 zombies. I use no cheese tactics. Just a box with iron bars to walk on. I expand it as I go so I have fallback areas. I don't think they do tons of damage, but maybe some things have changed.
I don't expect a melee weapon to be 100% effective against a feral or a radiated. I haven't seen many ferals yet and no radiated at all. If its poorly balanced we'll make adjustments.

I don't think he was talking about combat during horde night when you have your defenses up. Many people are saying walking into a POI with a bunch of radiated ferals is an issue for melee. Might be the regen is an issue.

I am too scatter brained to get to a high game stage lol. I get a new idea and start over constantly. I'm like this in all games so don't take it personal Have yet to get near the final quest in Skyrim with 100's hrs played.

 

[madmole]

Thanks ! Really. Not for me, cause like a lot of players I appreciate the game as it is or can take the time to modify some values in xml, but for the good health of this forum. I come here to read ideas, stories, and feel good vibrations. We need to get rid of whiners and terrible players that can't handle the basis of a survival game and the process of game development.

Its sad how toxic the internet has become. Back in the day it was just elite nerds and most people felt blessed to be online and share mods and stories about their gaming experiences. Normies would be like "what are you doing on that machine?" and didn't comprehend FTP/MIRC or forums in their infancy. Now every idiot with a phone has a toxic opinion. Before it took knowledge and effort to even know how to post online and where.

A few options can give the game legs for more people so its good for everyone. The default is how we envision it to be played, but if adding more options makes the game enjoyable in a lot more ways then its good.

 

[Hek Harris]

Just for information, I am currently playing a game with a close combat character. I put together the right skills, of course. Difficulty "warrior" BUT I set all the zombies in "run" (the new run, which is slower than the old one). The irradiated zombies are massacred (as long as there are no more than 3 or 4 on my back at the same time). And I have a lot of fun. So yes, it's perfectly playable and after training well, I'll increase the speed.

It is not by spending their days on the forum that "survivors" will learn to play well ^^.

 

[HungryZombie]

They had this idea of a genre mix from the beginning, see the kickstarter where they already talked about RPG. Naturally if you are looking for a "clean" survival game you will not find it here. Sandbox players have found this out a lot of versions earlier than survival players.
But it also seems TFP always goes to far in any direction at first when they balance the game. Even for me, who likes the RPG aspects, the perks seem to have too much influence compared to the items and the few mods.

I think a lot of the problem with people's perception is caused by two things. The tagline at the top of the forum and in the game is "The Survival Horde Crafting Game" I know it might say it elsewhere but this does not invoke Tower Defense or RPG which is a big part of what the game developers seem to want to blend in.

The 2nd thing was the long pause between A16 and A17. This got a very large group of people used to playing a Survival Horde crafting game and they all were shocked by the Tower Defense and RPG's.

 

[WolfyBlah]

In real life and in the game, if you suck at something you suck at it. Don't like it? Train and get better. Its not good to cater to someone's flaws.
By your logic if I don't buy barter perks I should just get a better deal because its not fair Rekt is bending me over.

By your logic if I buy all melee perks, hell I should just be able to craft high tech weapons and armor because TFP is discriminating against stupid bruisers.

And clearly by your logic or lack thereof, you think that high INT characters should get pushover zombies to fight?

The game is not significantly harder for crafters/builders. You don't have to fight zombies. You can outrun any zombie in the game. Fighting them is a choice. Just like building INT 10 recipes is your choice. Combat players can't craft get the best gear. Go craft a chainsaw you don't need to be great at melee to saw zeds up. Craft traps and pipe bombs. There are ample tools for the crafter to succeed.

I like the game to represent that life and choices do have consequences. Don't like sucking at life? Study and train to improve. A fully modded gun does plenty of damage with no perks. Eugene in TWD finally learned how to fight, his brains weren't enough to keep on surviving. I have significant crafting abilities at game stage 105, and I also have significant melee ability. I don't understand the problem. Get on your vehicle and drive off if you can't win a fight.

Train and get better might be a valid argument for LBD, it dosent really work for a super generic XP grind where the 'training' is farming X ammounts of XP so you can level up and click a box to magically be better at whatever you choose.

The game is harder for crafters, they have less damage, health and stanina than someone who specialised in those stats.

Being able to craft the best weapon in the game means jack ♥♥♥♥ when you do less damage than someone with a lower tier weapon and higher stats.

Now if there was more depth to the crafting so that intelligent play was actualy a substitute for the combat stats... but that isnt what we have.

So its really not unbalanced in your opinon that a crafter has to level (read: grind XP) significantly more to unlock those higher tier recipes and still ends up doing less damage with thier spiked club than someone with lower tier club and 'the right perks'.

Want to a spiked club?

Grind 30 levels or find it as loot/buy from trader.

Want to actually be able to use it?

Better not have spent your points on actualy unlocking the thing.

 

[Roland]

Just for information, I am currently playing a game with a close combat character. I put together the right skills, of course. Difficulty "warrior" BUT I set all the zombies in "run" (the new run, which is slower than the old one). The irradiated zombies are massacred (as long as there are no more than 3 or 4 on my back at the same time). And I have a lot of fun. So yes, it's perfectly playable and after training well, I'll increase the speed.It is not by spending their days on the forum that "survivors" will learn to play well ^^.

Woah...if you are going to refer to people like me who spend all day on the forum as sarcastically quoted “survivors” please at least say that we only come across as such. Big difference.

#justjoshingwolfyblah

 

[WolfyBlah]

Woah...if you are going to refer to people like me who spend all day on the forum as sarcastically quoted “survivors” please at least say that we only come across as such. Big difference.
#justjoshingwolfyblah

You know that part where i said you bring it on yourself that people are rude to you ect?

This post is exactly the sort of ♥♥♥♥ i mean.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

We're looking options like xp slider, zombie block damage, Blood moon frequency: every day, every 3 days every 7 days, every two weeks, every month, random, never. I think never would be good for the adventuring types who like to explore, and good for pvp, and for casuals who just like to build and don't want their stuff getting wrecked.

I would like 2 Slider

One with fixed dates as you write

and one random you can set 2 Values, min and max

would love to set a random value between 2 and 4 weeks

But really nice to hear that you have that on your wish/to do list

 

[Hek Harris]

You know that part where i said you bring it on yourself that people are rude to you ect?This post is exactly the sort of ♥♥♥♥ i mean.

It's time for close combat

 

[Roland]

You know that part where i said you bring it on yourself that people are rude to you ect?This post is exactly the sort of ♥♥♥♥ i mean.

Yeah but I’ve decided to live with the burden. You don’t laugh at yourself much do you?

If it helps at all I sincerely agree with you and disagree with Madmole that “casual” is an appropriate word to use as it does carry negative connotations even if Madmole didn’t mean it to be derogatory.

 

[WolfyBlah]

If what madmole is driving at is that crafting higer tier recipes is of equal value to dealing more damage or having more health.

This is not true whilever there exsists alternate paths to get the item beyond crafting it.

Whilever someone can find the best club in the game as loot or from the trader the 'can craft this' skill is nowhere near as powerful as 'deal more damage with whatever weapon you are holding'

To get decent combat perks that will make the game easier on you requires just one or two points in the relevant skills.

To be able to craft an item strong enough to offset this? You cant. Even if you dump all your points into crafting all you get is the ability to make the exact same item someone else got through looting/crafting.

If you are going to lock things away as endgame then actualy do it: make only weapons/tools people can actualy craft be findable as loot.

 

[meganoth]

Train and get better might be a valid argument for LBD, it dosent really work for a super generic XP grind where the 'training' is farming X ammounts of XP so you can level up and click a box to magically be better at whatever you choose.
The game is harder for crafters, they have less damage, health and stanina than someone who specialised in those stats.

Being able to craft the best weapon in the game means jack ♥♥♥♥ when you do less damage than someone with a lower tier weapon and higher stats.

Now if there was more depth to the crafting so that intelligent play was actualy a substitute for the combat stats... but that isnt what we have.

So its really not unbalanced in your opinon that a crafter has to level (read: grind XP) significantly more to unlock those higher tier recipes and still ends up doing less damage with thier spiked club than someone with lower tier club and 'the right perks'.

The ultimate goal is surely that a crafter is able to built a lot more walls and (electric) traps to overcome the weaker weapon handling.

Whether that's true at the moment, well, at least doubtfull, needs to be balanced.

 

[madmole]

I think a lot of the problem with people's perception is caused by two things. The tagline at the top of the forum and in the game is "The Survival Horde Crafting Game" I know it might say it elsewhere but this does not invoke Tower Defense or RPG which is a big part of what the game developers seem to want to blend in.
The 2nd thing was the long pause between A16 and A17. This got a very large group of people used to playing a Survival Horde crafting game and they all were shocked by the Tower Defense and RPG's.

You've got to be kidding. What part of "The Survival HORDE Crafting Game" implies there isn't tower defense? The worde HORDE implies it IMO. The very first videos and KS, steam and every build of the game had hordes every 7 days. Even the game implies you will die in 7 days. The game isn't going to become a full on RPG, its always been "A survival game with RPG elements".

Straight from the steam store: "7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!"

 

[WolfyBlah]

The ultimate goal is surely that a crafter is able to built a lot more walls and (electric) traps to overcome the weaker weapon handling.
Whether that's true at the moment, well, at least doubtfull, needs to be balanced.

Dosent that assume that the crafting player is *always* in thier base?

Like a player that prefers crafting still has to be out in the world gathering resources, food, ect

Now if crafting leveling unlocked some cool ♥♥♥♥ like a boombox you could place outside a house to draw all the sleepers out... i can get on board wih more cool crafting recipes, especialy if they add intresting mechanics.

As it stands though being a crafter feels like you are grinding levels and going against tougher zombies just so you can craft somthing a looter/trader will find long before you craft it and they will deal way more damage with it to boot.

 

[meganoth]

Dosent that assume that the crafting player is *always* in thier base?Like a player that prefers crafting still has to be out in the world gathering resources, food, ect

Do you assume that a crafting player can't shoot a gun? I'm able to kill zombies as a level 0 player, why shouldn't I be able to when I have a kickass modded gun?

Do I think they need to nerf perks a bit and put a bit more oomph into mods? Sure, I said exactly that a few pages before. But I also said I expect more and better mods to arrive in the coming months. Still the fighter type MUST be better at fighting than the builder, there is no way around that.

 

[madmole]

Train and get better might be a valid argument for LBD, it dosent really work for a super generic XP grind where the 'training' is farming X ammounts of XP so you can level up and click a box to magically be better at whatever you choose.
The game is harder for crafters, they have less damage, health and stanina than someone who specialised in those stats.

Being able to craft the best weapon in the game means jack ♥♥♥♥ when you do less damage than someone with a lower tier weapon and higher stats.

Now if there was more depth to the crafting so that intelligent play was actualy a substitute for the combat stats... but that isnt what we have.

So its really not unbalanced in your opinon that a crafter has to level (read: grind XP) significantly more to unlock those higher tier recipes and still ends up doing less damage with thier spiked club than someone with lower tier club and 'the right perks'.

Want to a spiked club?

Grind 30 levels or find it as loot/buy from trader.

Want to actually be able to use it?

Better not have spent your points on actualy unlocking the thing.

Builder/Harvester XP is unbalanced, (fixed in the next patch) but game play is not. A top tier crafter, can craft the best mods, and install 5 mods into a gun or club and do some significant damage, where a pure fighter doesn't have the best mods or a pink weapon. Is it equal? No. Should it be? No. But if you bought one or two perks fully modded would rival the unmodded with all the perks.

Its a laugh how you call everything grinding. I role play and build my character an out house and a nice kitchen to cook in. I paint the walls and build cupboards, and put rugs down. I just play the game and buy the perks that fit this character and do the things I think that character would do in the situation. My point is there are 5000 ways to play this game, and none of it is grinding if you try to be creative and just play the game. Turn the difficulty down if you think its too hard for a builder, or buy a couple combat perks so combat isn't impossible for you.

Is it 100% balanced? Hell no. Playable? Totally. Its going to take time to balance and make every build work. First task is to make low INT players work before making NO combat perk players work. Nobody is stopping you from buying a couple of combat perks to minimize your frustration.

 

[HungryZombie]

You've got to be kidding. What part of "The Survival HORDE Crafting Game" implies there isn't tower defense? The word HORDE implies it IMO.

Sorry man, I stand by what I said. I also am not one of the voices complaining. I like A17 and have been fun testing what I can do. That said...

I'm sure to your mind HORDE says tower defense to you but it never occurred to me. I just thought horde meant the every 7 day thing like is has always been since before A17. I've never played a tower defense game and only learned of the term from this game. I also feel the, as much as it pains me to say, slew of negative reviews that it never occurred to other people besides myself. "This TD stuff don't belong in my survival game!" is a complaint I often see so I can't be alone.

The very first videos and KS, steam and every build of the game had hordes every 7 days. Even the game implies you will die in 7 days. The game isn't going to become a full on RPG, its always been "A survival game with RPG elements"
Straight from the steam store: "7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!"

Perhaps I didn't express myself correctly. I was talking only of the header. I acknowledged that it is mentioned elsewhere like steam descriptions and your videos. I played this game for over a year and only started being interested enough to look at your videos and I don't recall seeing the steam desc. Maybe I did over a year ago but I've had no reason to look at it again yet I do see your banner every day.

It's hard to see other perspectives when you are immersed in something you are familiar with. You live and work 7dtd and I don't think it's unreasonable to assume you might have a tainted perspective. I was just offering another view in a friendly manner.

I appreciate your reply though.

 

[Ranzera]

My question is how would such an exp slider bar interact with modded files? Is this slider something that modders can interact with to allow variance within their own mods?

 

[fragtzack]

You've got to be kidding. What part of "The Survival HORDE Crafting Game" implies there isn't tower defense? The worde HORDE implies it IMO. The very first videos and KS, steam and every build of the game had hordes every 7 days. Even the game implies you will die in 7 days. The game isn't going to become a full on RPG, its always been "A survival game with RPG elements".
Straight from the steam store: "7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!"

Agree with MM. The reason I bought the game is #1. Crafting #2. Survival #3 Zombies

That said and done, back to the purpose of this original poster complaining about A17:

I paid $15 for this ALPHA game and have exactly 2096 hours played according to Steam, all on A15 and A16. Got my money worth so I have no complaints and would give a positive review based on that.

But for a17: I can't fricking play a17 because the performance is so bad. Less then 28FPS makes me physically ill and a17 has frequent drops for little reason.

All the feature changes + and - are moot to me because of the FPS issues.

 

[Guppycur]

You've got to be kidding. What part of "The Survival HORDE Crafting Game" implies there isn't tower defense? The worde HORDE implies it IMO. The very first videos and KS, steam and every build of the game had hordes every 7 days. Even the game implies you will die in 7 days. The game isn't going to become a full on RPG, its always been "A survival game with RPG elements".
Straight from the steam store: "7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!"

That's fair, it was always your stated intention, but have you noticed that the more RPG elements you add the less fun the game becomes?