PC Steam reviews - I kinda figured

People expected CONTENT!!!!! Not less content.

* Smaller maps - Pregeneration improved performance and we've been told it's obviously not finished and will improve

* no smell ( again ) - So not less content just unchanged?

* AI that is better in building but weak in hordes - So better in nearly all aspects except day 7? Sounds improved to me

* no expanded electricity - So not less content just unchanged?

* no underground air system for caves - So not less content just unchanged?

* no real caves at all! Another stripped feature promised back for A17 - So not less content just unchanged? Who promised?

* no real new content beyond bikes and jeep. - Forgot gyro, mods, buff system xpath modding, 100+ POI's etc.

* weapon parts stripped - and replaced with Mods

* Durability as good as stripped on everything, including engines! - odd all my tools weapons etc have durability.

* Features stripped like progression system - I'm still progressing every day. My char is much stronger, more stamina, mines faster than day one.

* Cheap solution for content by reusing the same assets ( glowstick / gloweyes ferals with the same models ) - So not less content just unchanged?

* Cheap tricks like the whole stamina system to slow down progress. Or gates ( bye! ). Or XP hunting.. I thought we had stamina and gates in A16. And we hunted rocks and stone (ie mining) for xp as it was the fastest...now it's zeds.
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I guess we see things quite differently.

 
We're looking options like xp slider, zombie block damage, Blood moon frequency: every day, every 3 days every 7 days, every two weeks, every month, random, never. I think never would be good for the adventuring types who like to explore, and good for pvp, and for casuals who just like to build and don't want their stuff getting wrecked.

 
Wow. You are actually helping me change my mind about 17. Maybe they should leave it as is and be done with it. I don't think anyone eill ever be content anyway. Once they give players the one thing they want they are right on to the next one.
I'm no fan of 17 in its vanilla state but you know what I did? I changed it all. And I enjoying it. And it's a wonderful freedom to have, to tailor things to your liking instead of getting upset here. I've managed to now enjoy the content much more instead of dwelling on what I want for me.

Im really curious why mining is so important to you on day 1-4 though.

EDIT - Haha Damn Guppy we were sort of on the same track with the modding to your liking portion. Bro chest bump.
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Jax is back :) and it sounds like his creative side is once again going to benefit all of us.

 
Does he make $$ youtubing? Sure. But you shouldn't doubt his enjoyment of the game...
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I didnt question his enjoyment of the game.

I questioned wether or not he likes traders as an actual mechanic or because it allows him to skip past some of TFPs more ♥♥♥♥ty developement and balance decisions. (Level gates)

 
We're looking options like xp slider, zombie block damage, Blood moon frequency: every day, every 3 days every 7 days, every two weeks, every month, random, never. I think never would be good for the adventuring types who like to explore, and good for pvp, and for casuals who just like to build and don't want their stuff getting wrecked.
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I would normally say "excellent news", but this basically means people would be playing different games...

...you used to be able to play differently in the same game on the same server.

That was your game's magic sauce.

 
We're looking options like xp slider, zombie block damage, Blood moon frequency: every day, every 3 days every 7 days, every two weeks, every month, random, never. I think never would be good for the adventuring types who like to explore, and good for pvp, and for casuals who just like to build and don't want their stuff getting wrecked.
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More options is good.

An XP slider doesnt slove the balance issues with progression though: its still masivly unbalanced to expect someone who is great at crafting to fight the same tier of enemies as someone who has more hp/damage.

Also maybe cut the 'casual' it has negative connatations and makes you come across as an ass.

 
Oh and before you say people can play differently using the perk system, the very fact you're considering adding these sliders to accommodate different gameplay styles points towards the current iterations linearity.

 
No level Gates so I would not be hampered by tfp stupidity, and 10x the biome spawns so that there were actual threats early game. Plus a variety of other things that made early game more challenging in a fun way.
Moderate (mostly) iron armor, but the real issue boiled down to two things.

1) Melee being totally ineffective against rad zombies, which forced you to

2). Base building is a week long chore when they can tear through anything very quickly.

I'm building an ai cheese base away from the main horde base, in hopes I'm able to actually have fun playing the subsequent weeks.

Or I suppose I could just wait horde night out again on another vanilla poi, but that's a day wasted just clearing it, and no real sense of accomplishment.

...in every build, after playing, I'm able to find the secret sauce that makes early, mid, and late game FUN, and mod appropriately.

I got it for early game, but unfortunately the game skipped mid and went straight to late.
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I haven't died on a horde yet, just made it through day 21. I just use 3 rows of spikes and drop molotovs on the big clusters of them, and I have 24 zombies. I use no cheese tactics. Just a box with iron bars to walk on. I expand it as I go so I have fallback areas. I don't think they do tons of damage, but maybe some things have changed.

I don't expect a melee weapon to be 100% effective against a feral or a radiated. I haven't seen many ferals yet and no radiated at all. If its poorly balanced we'll make adjustments.

 
I guess we see things quite differently.
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Several of the points that you mention date back to A16. When i talk about missing feature, they got stripped in A16 and supposed to return in A17.

A lot of changes in A16 already pre-shadowed A17. You forgot the whole discussions about the changes in A16. A16 was a mixed bag and a lot of people played it less then the previous vanillas. A lot of A16 positive feedback has been a result of modders taking a brush to it.

* Unchanged content = nothing new for 16 months waiting. So its wast of time for people, where they might actually have had new content.

* See old posts during A16 regarding features that have not made a return.

* Gyro is a gimmick at best ( its a jeep with a Y axis and more gravity applied ).

* Mods are indeed new content, so your right on that.

* POIs are not new content, its reworked content for a lot of time. There are new assets but also a lot have been stripped out. How do you like the new skyscrapers? O that is right, they are gone.

The whole argument how the developers can add or improve is the problem. We are more then 2 years from A16 and we are still not seeing much improvement content wise.

In that same time take a look at a game just as old. Rust ... They got electricity ( that actually works better then 7D2D because you can actually route cables on walls, cable can be damage, resets, door openers etc ). Graphics have huge upgrades. Content has gained a lot. This is also on the same Unity Engine with less people then 7D2D.

That is the issue 7D2D faces, other games have not been sitting still. The forest has upgraded a LOT. New survival games are coming out and evolving every day. Sure, they are not 7D2D but 7D2D is also freaking old now! You may be surprised how little content 7D2D actually has gained from the first few alphas and how much it has lost in these years.

 
I haven't died on a horde yet, just made it through day 21. I just use 3 rows of spikes and drop molotovs on the big clusters of them, and I have 24 zombies. I use no cheese tactics. Just a box with iron bars to walk on. I expand it as I go so I have fallback areas. I don't think they do tons of damage, but maybe some things have changed.
I don't expect a melee weapon to be 100% effective against a feral or a radiated. I haven't seen many ferals yet and no radiated at all. If its poorly balanced we'll make adjustments.
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I know adjustments are coming, but if melee isn't viable then what's the point of pursuing it.

I guess I should only focus on drinking coffee and throwing explosives, but I find THAT cheesy.

I used to be able to spend half the night from the base, the other half on the ground, I died JUST as many times, but at least it was fun.

I know this is your baby, and I know it's hard not to take it personally, so thank you for listening.

 
I don't understand the movement towards this seeing as it's, especially, not fun in a survival game.
But, fun is subjective right. And honestly, if you want a different user group to purchase and play the game then I guess you change the game to meet their specific needs.
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They had this idea of a genre mix from the beginning, see the kickstarter where they already talked about RPG. Naturally if you are looking for a "clean" survival game you will not find it here. Sandbox players have found this out a lot of versions earlier than survival players.

But it also seems TFP always goes to far in any direction at first when they balance the game. Even for me, who likes the RPG aspects, the perks seem to have too much influence compared to the items and the few mods.

But I think this will change again when more and better mods, legendary weapons and (I hope) more recipes are put into the game in the coming months. To balance that out, the RPG boni have to be lessened (I think they are also that good because many of the planned mods are still missing). Whether that would help you re-appreciate the game I don't know, but I expect a lot from the coming "loot diversification"

They already did those changes and it was still so much easier to XP farm zombies compared to your gain in building/crafting. You know that people now actually run forges to get screamer hordes? Yea, its gotten that bad.
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Balancing is an ongoing effort. I give you permission to call me a gullible fool in a few weeks if there isn't a further zombie xp nerf in A17.1 or A17.2. :smile-new:

Scavenging: That is XP hunting from the unrealistic 30 zombies per house.
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I don't know, I don't force it. I just play the game, do scavenging, mining, hunting... for the resources and not the xp and from time to time spend perk points. Everything helps, I have as much satisfaction from finding A lvl3 pick axe as I have from spending a perk point in BoomHeadshot, for example.

Being honest, i think the trader is a bad design in the game. People hunt for traders because of the workbenches, forges, etc. Its also the easy safe way to get iron and other tools. The game is more challenging without the traders and that is fact.

Traders are simply the new spam crafting. But way more easy and powerful then spam crafting ever was.
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I'm fully in accord with you, since A16 I have been saying the trader is too powerful. He still is (especially because you only get quests from him) but the money nerf was a step in the right direction. I don't have much money to spare and have to pick what I buy. Sadly MM has upped the money reward for quests so there is a step back again in the next version. I'm sure this isn't the last balancing step the trader needs

 
Welcome to early access, what did you expect? Obviously not unfinished development versions, but that is what EA is about, a peek into the development process with unfinished versions. Lower your expectations or wait for a final version, those are your options.
Don't tell me that you had difficulties in A16 to exploit the AI? In fact the A16 AI was so easy to exploit that people were doing it without knowing. In A17 I already died a few times because I forgot this or that loophole. Never happened in A16. I don't think there is any question that A17 AI is already better than A16. Do still exploits exist? Sure, that's why they put the new AI in and set us on the task to find the exploits.

Where did you learn about the exploits? By yourself or did you get the info from streamers or by reading forum posts? If the latter then it surely isn't a big exploit when you needed thousands of other players to do the bug hunting work for you.

That is probably the answer: It isn't in yet. Adding it needs time, a scarce developer resource. In my opinion they made a mistake by putting lots of mod handling features so low on their priority lists (for example something like XPATH should have been in a long time ago), but again, it is EA.

Generally you can't expect developers to be answering every question, because we are thousands and have lots of questions and for each questions there is maybe 1 or 2 developers who could answer it. So getting an answer depends on luck that the right person is reading the forum at the right time.
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Wow really thanks for your Explanation of Early Access i really thought thats already a finsihed Product. The Problem is, Early Access is one thing releasing horrible bugged stuff is another.

We are not talking about Issues or Bugs not everyone have or only happen at 0.5% of teh Playtime.

And now something about its not in yet.

if needed Features are not in yet its strange devs telling people to mod it cause a dev shoudl know the Features are not in yet.

And yes in my opinion it was a mistake to put mod handling so low on the list. At same Time its hard to believe for me that such simple things like a custom Descripion Function would need weeks or months of dev time.

About answering Questions, for me its different if a dev ask you and you response or if you simply write a question into a thread. If you are asked and write a answer this Dev should answer cause he asked you first.

 
No level Gates so I would not be hampered by tfp stupidity, and 10x the biome spawns so that there were actual threats early game. Plus a variety of other things that made early game more challenging in a fun way.
Moderate (mostly) iron armor, but the real issue boiled down to two things.

1) Melee being totally ineffective against rad zombies, which forced you to

2). Base building is a week long chore when they can tear through anything very quickly.

I'm building an ai cheese base away from the main horde base, in hopes I'm able to actually have fun playing the subsequent weeks.

Or I suppose I could just wait horde night out again on another vanilla poi, but that's a day wasted just clearing it, and no real sense of accomplishment.

...in every build, after playing, I'm able to find the secret sauce that makes early, mid, and late game FUN, and mod appropriately.

I got it for early game, but unfortunately the game skipped mid and went straight to late.
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I read in another thread they are looking into changing the regen the rad zombies have. There's supposedly a mod you can add to a weapon that stops them from regen'ing but I haven't seen one yet.

The might just be unbeatable right now without that mod. I'm going to play around in debug mode and see though I think.

 
More options is good.
An XP slider doesnt slove the balance issues with progression though: its still masivly unbalanced to expect someone who is great at crafting to fight the same tier of enemies as someone who has more hp/damage.

Also maybe cut the 'casual' it has negative connatations and makes you come across as an ass.
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The XP slider just slows the game down for those who have more time to play, and speeds it up if they think early game feels too grindy.

What balance issues? Its up to the player to make good perk choices for their play style. If you go all into INT for a super nerd crafter build and don't choose any ranged or melee perks, then its on you to deal with that. You can be a jack of all trades, or pure melee/tank, or nerd or stealth assassin, whatever you like. Its player choice. I've played games where I made unbalanced builds and paid the price. Don't jump off a cliff, dude, its bad for your ankles. So is making totally lopsided builds because your too impatient and think you need INT10 and all crafting perks ASAP.

There is nothing derogatory about the word casual. All it implies is that you have less time to invest into a play through than someone else. Get off your high horse, your the one being offensive here.

 
Jax:
See his streams and you know why fast. When you have 3 or 4 people finding traders in MP, marking down what trader has a forge, workbench, CI, ... and then do all the quests for quick rewards in a group. This is why Kage loves the traders, because its a build in game cheat.

Without using the traders / trader quests / trader tools, A17 is way more harder and time consuming. And harder is less fun to stream because nobody wants to watch Kage hit a rock for 5 hours with his weak stone tools, his non existing stamina etc.

For him playing without traders will cost him viewers because of the mega grind. And that in turn cost him money. So its not hard to understand why he loves traders. Its a soft way to cheat the game early mega grind.
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Why is this a cheat? The traders are in game and they do give you quests so I'd think that it's intended behavior to use them.

 
I read in another thread they are looking into changing the regen the rad zombies have. There's supposedly a mod you can add to a weapon that stops them from regen'ing but I haven't seen one yet.
The might just be unbeatable right now without that mod. I'm going to play around in debug mode and see though I think.
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Yeh the mod exists, but is super rare and even with level gates removed, mods ain't easy to come by.

Thinking about an aoe block that sends out emp pulses or some other fake science to knock out their Regen.

 
I know adjustments are coming, but if melee isn't viable then what's the point of pursuing it.
I guess I should only focus on drinking coffee and throwing explosives, but I find THAT cheesy.

I used to be able to spend half the night from the base, the other half on the ground, I died JUST as many times, but at least it was fun.

I know this is your baby, and I know it's hard not to take it personally, so thank you for listening.
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Why can't you get out there and tank with all the heavy armor perks and a sledge or fireaxe? You only take 10% damage. I fell out of my base a few times before release and just back pedaled and axed in the face and wiped out a whole blood moon horde that way. I'm playing a legit long term game so I will be tweaking things as I go, but so far I haven't seen anything too punishing. If you took some grandpa's moonshine, I think you could do some mass damage with melee on a blood moon. I think we stop regen if you hit something, so as long as you keep hitting it, it should die. But I've never faced on yet, so they could be OP, I have no idea.

 
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