PC Steam reviews - I kinda figured

Adding to that, its not even that people do not like current changes, its the fact that these people can't rush to end game within first week through grinding same action over and over anymore.
They complain about need to grind, while completely ignoring the fact that its exactly what they had to do before, just a pace was different.

Every single alpha there are people crying out loud how it was oh so much better in previous alpha and every single alpha these people can be ignored, players who bought the game number rises and the game gets better.

Thing with vocal minority is exactly that - they are vocal and for whatever reason believe that if other people do not act up and oppose them directly, they all agree with them, which couldn't be further from truth and that approach of all the "last alpha was superior" people was proven wrong at least 10 times now.
Maybe some people feel that way. I think A16 had a good balance. Yeah the AI was busted, that needed fixing. I don't think anyone disagrees on that point.

A16s Hybrid "Perk by Doing" system was excellent. So people thought we got stuff too soon. That's not a flaw of that system. That's a flaw of the balance within that system. You could gate the forge the same way it gated cement mixers, chemistry stations and the workbench. You could change how fast you gained skill exp or level exp. But instead of fixing a good system, they threw it out as they always do.

 
Nothing is going to be proved one way or another until at least February.
Alpha 17 probably won’t be viewed as beloved until Alpha 18 is released ;)
Well I sure as hell hope a17.4 is more beloved than a16.4.

Then we can start talking about nostalgia!

Otherwise a more beloved a17 than a18 would be a very sad future.

Adding to that, its not even that people do not like current changes, its the fact that these people can't rush to end game within first week through grinding same action over and over anymore.
They complain about need to grind, while completely ignoring the fact that its exactly what they had to do before, just a pace was different.
If something feels tedious it is because of the pace.

And THATS what ppl has been complaining about. The PACE!

I haven't seen a single post on anyone wanting spamcrafting because they want to reach end game first week. They want the immersion of learning by doing.

Also i haven't seen a single post where ppl say they want to rush to end game.

What ppl are saying is that they want a better pace and more end game content not a slower pace on already available content.

But i guess you chose to misinterpret that to prove a point.

 
Maybe some people feel that way. I think A16 had a good balance. Yeah the AI was busted, that needed fixing. I don't think anyone disagrees on that point.
A16s Hybrid "Perk by Doing" system was excellent. So people thought we got stuff too soon. That's not a flaw of that system. That's a flaw of the balance within that system. You could gate the forge the same way it gated cement mixers, chemistry stations and the workbench. You could change how fast you gained skill exp or level exp. But instead of fixing a good system, they threw it out as they always do.
Ppl who claims you "won" a16 first week seem to forget that STEEL was gated behind crucible which was gated by:

Tool smithing: 6

Weapon smithing: 4

Science: 3

Which was gated by player lvl 40.

So unless you used some of the obviously broken game mechanics there was no way to gain that over 380000xp you needed to hit player level 40.

Or was I missing a non-cheese way?

 
Well I sure as hell hope a17.4 is more beloved than a16.4. Then we can start talking about nostalgia!

Otherwise a more beloved a17 than a18 would be a very sad future.

If something feels tedious it is because of the pace.

And THATS what ppl has been complaining about. The PACE!

I haven't seen a single post on anyone wanting spamcrafting because they want to reach end game first week. They want the immersion of learning by doing.

Also i haven't seen a single post where ppl say they want to rush to end game.

What ppl are saying is that they want a better pace and more end game content not a slower pace on already available content.

But i guess you chose to misinterpret that to prove a point.
Pace? You can control the pace yourself with a simple edit and or modlet. Why something that simple is ignored and instead they choose to come here and complain? Let's all go back to crafting 5k stone axes again now that was pace. :p

 
Is that even my argument? I said it was stupid to bottleneck playstyles in a sandbox game, and doing so is one of the reasons their steam score tanked. That's called giving feedback. Of course it's their game and they can do whatever the hell they want with it.
Steam score tanked? Their overall rating is 79% if that is tanked what is not tanked? I would go by the 52k plus that like the game over the last 30 days 1k plus that like the game less at 55%.

 
Pace? You can control the pace yourself with a simple edit and or modlet. Why something that simple is ignored and instead they choose to come here and complain? Let's all go back to crafting 5k stone axes again now that was pace. :p
Hey greymantle. Happy new year!

Well we all know you think that everything that can be modded shouldn't be discussed on this forum.

So the pace of 5k stone axes isnt a problem for you either, just mod it. Right?! :p

 
Ppl who claims you "won" a16 first week seem to forget that STEEL was gated behind crucible which was gated by:Tool smithing: 6

Weapon smithing: 4

Science: 3

Which was gated by player lvl 40.

So unless you used some of the obviously broken game mechanics there was no way to gain that over 380000xp you needed to hit player level 40.

Or was I missing a non-cheese way?
IT was very easy to hit steel by the first week lol. Everything was too easy in the game, and honestly a forge wasn't even needed to be an op god anyway. Hell, steel just turned you into.. god^2? You didn't have to worry about food/water, you had all of that in moments, a wooden base was fine for insane difficulty, and if you wanted to kill zombies for XP.... well, they just kinda stood around for you to kill em. Sure 17 xp for gathering and crafting is going to be tweaked, but you could easily grab steel reqs by the end of the week. Even faster co-op. Not that it was needed. If people think learn by doing was balanced easy in a 100% destructable (xp granting) world, then please do sugest it.

I did (amongst friends, too) try to balance it by modding XP gains / skill requirements / increasing costs / banning guns until day 35 / banning anything other than wood/iron for bases and none of that made anything more fun/rewarding. A somewhat blend of both may work, but A16 was nothing but a flower-field, coloring in the lines for a test easy mode.

 
Hey greymantle. Happy new year!Well we all know you think that everything that can be modded shouldn't be discussed on this forum.

So the pace of 5k stone axes isnt a problem for you either, just mod it. Right?! :p
The difference from then and now is modelts didn't exist. Modlets make it simple to mod and yes I did mod it back then and no I didn't come to the forums and complain.

 
The difference from then and now is modelts didn't exist. Modlets make it simple to mod and yes I did mod it back then and no I didn't come to the forums and complain.
Complain about ppl complaining is still complaining ;)

 
Complain about ppl complaining is still complaining ;)
Sorry but find where I complain about people. I post solutions and simple solutions to their problems. I try to help but most would rather ignore and keep on complaining.

 
Sorry but find where I complain about people. I post solutions and simple solutions to their problems. I try to help but most would rather ignore and keep on complaining.
Oh sorry I misinterpreted your helpfulness with complaints.

Well then, thank you! I'm well aware that I can mod this game.

Thank you very much.

Please carry on and tell some one else who you think might not know this game is modable.

 
IT was very easy to hit steel by the first week lol. Everything was too easy in the game, and honestly a forge wasn't even needed to be an op god anyway. Hell, steel just turned you into.. god^2? You didn't have to worry about food/water, you had all of that in moments, a wooden base was fine for insane difficulty, and if you wanted to kill zombies for XP.... well, they just kinda stood around for you to kill em. Sure 17 xp for gathering and crafting is going to be tweaked, but you could easily grab steel reqs by the end of the week. Even faster co-op. Not that it was needed. If people think learn by doing was balanced easy in a 100% destructable (xp granting) world, then please do sugest it.
I did (amongst friends, too) try to balance it by modding XP gains / skill requirements / increasing costs / banning guns until day 35 / banning anything other than wood/iron for bases and none of that made anything more fun/rewarding. A somewhat blend of both may work, but A16 was nothing but a flower-field, coloring in the lines for a test easy mode.
So the problem was the AI? Too easy to kill?

 
Steam score tanked? Their overall rating is 79% if that is tanked what is not tanked? I would go by the 52k plus that like the game over the last 30 days 1k plus that like the game less at 55%.
Let me clarify. The recent reviews tanked from 85% to 55%.

Do you think the recent reviews are a good indicator of the sentiment toward A17? That's kinda what this thread is about.

 
So the problem was the AI? Too easy to kill?
Oh sure, just pick one thing I said out of all of that. I'm not going to re-type for you to pick one thing I say again ;)

The entire crafting/leveling/perk system is what caused it too easy.

 
Let me clarify. The recent reviews tanked from 85% to 55%.
Do you think the recent reviews are a good indicator of the sentiment toward A17? That's kinda what this thread is about.
The last 30 days reviews are only good to see the small percent that likes to complain for the most part. People that are having fun don't go edit their reviews. If the last 30 days had say 30% of the total reviews or more then I might be concerned if I was looking to buy the game and would research why. But less then 2% no wouldn't even care.

 
Oh sure, just pick one thing I said out of all of that. I'm not going to re-type for you to pick one thing I say again ;)
The entire crafting/leveling/perk system is what caused it too easy.
Well player level was based on xp right. How did you manage to get that much xp by the first week is basically what I'm asking.

And you are telling me you didn't get it by farming zombies? then I'm wondering how you did it.

Honest question.

 
IT was very easy to hit steel by the first week lol. Everything was too easy in the game, and honestly a forge wasn't even needed to be an op god anyway. Hell, steel just turned you into.. god^2? You didn't have to worry about food/water, you had all of that in moments, a wooden base was fine for insane difficulty, and if you wanted to kill zombies for XP.... well, they just kinda stood around for you to kill em. Sure 17 xp for gathering and crafting is going to be tweaked, but you could easily grab steel reqs by the end of the week. Even faster co-op. Not that it was needed. If people think learn by doing was balanced easy in a 100% destructable (xp granting) world, then please do sugest it.
I did (amongst friends, too) try to balance it by modding XP gains / skill requirements / increasing costs / banning guns until day 35 / banning anything other than wood/iron for bases and none of that made anything more fun/rewarding. A somewhat blend of both may work, but A16 was nothing but a flower-field, coloring in the lines for a test easy mode.
This about sums up every version except 17 way to easy to get everything in the first 14 days or so. Look at the last version the first 2 months they had a good increase in players returning then it dropped like a rock on the 3rd month. About sums up each version for quite awhile let's see how this one holds out. It could just be that most of us have 1k plus hours in the game by now and grow bored after a month or two.

 
Well player level was based on xp right. How did you manage to get that much xp by the first week is basically what I'm asking. And you are telling me you didn't get it by farming zombies? then I'm wondering how you did it.

Honest question.
Idk man I am drunk for the second time in years lol.

Like I said, a fully destructible world that granted too much XP for doing it. Farm some rocks, get levels to do it faster in mining tools and gain XP. Everything gave too much XP, and you only had to spend it on those things you listed to get Steel unlocked. Everything else was pointless. There was zero need for food, since you were stuffed for days + you could supply every army in WW2 for months by gathering while farming XP, there wasn't a threat from zombies, so no need to buy any skills related to combat or survival, you didn't need anything but wood or iron bases... so no point in really even buying things like miner 69er.

The whole game was just too god damn easy.

How I got XP? Killed zombies as I looted/farmed ♥♥♥♥ like nodes or whatever. Idk, I never modded for benefit, only hinderance and I couldn't make it harder.

And to Greymantle, yeah. EVERYONE on my steam list played hardcore and then... we all tried to make it harder... to make it more fun past day 2, and failed. None of them played. All of them are on 7 days now again. Servers that died have come back, so A17 is doing something right.

Most of the steam reviews are: "LUL BAD PERFORMANCE KBAI" "OMG TOO HARD" "WTF THIS ONE GLITCH LOL BAD GAME" "OMG OVER NINE THOUSAND BEARS IN ONE HOUSE LUL BYE". It happens. Reviews are meant to be lightly taken as bs, and if you see a trend of: "(a lot of well-typed text review with legit specs and why optimization or bugs or PTW is breaking the fun)", then it's a cause for, "Okay, maybe I shouldn't buy the game and do a bit of research/pick it up on a cheap sale / watch gameplay"

Even my casual gamer friend, who NEVER played a FP shooter in her life, nor played much aside from MMOs, said A16 was a bit boring and A17 was a great change.

Anyway, I am drunk, happy new years. Stop hating and enjoy the game. Balances will happen, but change needed to happen. This was advertised as a grueling game where you suvive zombiews who want to kill you while building a base to defend and gather resources to craft things to kill zombies with/not die by hunger or overheat/freeze to death. If you want to roleplay a character or something in the game, you gotta adapt to the game, not meld it to how you wanna play it (well, you can mod it, but you cant force the devs to meld it to your specific needs for roleplaying in a game abotu survivin zombies trying to kill you)\

Oh I got on drunk rambling (man it's been a whuile since I've drank lol). When I play the game, or any other game that challenges me to "UYou will die if you don't prepare", I start off with a goal: I need to loot the good stuff, farm for a starter, get kills in to warm up/get XP. Once that's established, I pick a day to half/half farm resources for base, hit up big buildings that look like they have what I need. Then, it's one or the other while farming mats for ammo/weapons, then rinse and repeat. All of that granted wayt oo much XP, and none of the skills mattered. That's how I inevatbly had enough XP for steel, if I so happened to want to unlock it, by the end of the week. If it was a bad run, maybe shortly after the first week.

End game should be end game, not one or two or three weeks, but end game. Months (in game time).

 
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The last 30 days reviews are only good to see the small percent that likes to complain for the most part. People that are having fun don't go edit their reviews. If the last 30 days had say 30% of the total reviews or more then I might be concerned if I was looking to buy the game and would research why. But less then 2% no wouldn't even care.
This is demonstrably false- many of the recent positive reviews are coming from people with 400+ hours on their record. Additionally, if we look at only people with less than 20 hours then we see the same story of mixed reviews.

 
This about sums up every version except 17 way to easy to get everything in the first 14 days or so. Look at the last version the first 2 months they had a good increase in players returning then it dropped like a rock on the 3rd month. About sums up each version for quite awhile let's see how this one holds out. It could just be that most of us have 1k plus hours in the game by now and grow bored after a month or two.
And you really think the only way to stop people from getting Steel within few Days is the current Whack a Zombie System?

The old Learning by Doing system had so many options to balance it more, the devs could have also fix spam crafting problems. But if they did that it would not become a Fallout Skill Clone so no chance complete rewrite and now people can learn to cook , be a blacksmith, carpenter and other stuff with simple Zombie killing.

True that sounds really like a great new System with so much Depth and Immersion.

Also this Problems with XP for farming Rocks easy to solve, rocks dont give XP problem solved.

To easy to spam craft something? Simple solution after hitting Level X easy Recipes give no XP and at same time stuff you constructet give no XP if you destroy them.

There are many ways to make a Progression system, doing it like the Pimps did is the easiest and cheapest way of doing that.

It has no immersion it has no real Logic why you learn all this recipes out of thin air.

And since you talk about to easy to get everything. True now its all gated behind Kill Zombies and more Zombies. But at same time, if you knw the recipe hey great you have tons of resources recipes are cheap so build like in creative mode. Game has since some Alphas such a super Easy Crafting they could also remove all Level Gates and unlock all Recipes from start.

Why not balance Recipes more, balance Resources you get from different Items in the World.

And yes before you tell me i know it can be modded, but it should not be needed to balance resources that is something the devs should do.

Simple Example. Vanilla Game give 50 Rocks with every Stone Terrain Block , i modded it on my server to 5 -10 and thats more then enough people still have tons of stones in safes and forges and chests. Same with all the other Resources.

And Guns its same, Quality has no effect on Damage in Vanilla, could be easily added again and works perfect sure it need some more thinkign about the balancing but also that is possible.

And now one thing about Survival, can you tell me one only one good Reason why someone trying to survive in a World full of Zombies should run around and search for Zombies to attack them? That is not survival that is Shooter, every Survivor who dont want to die would try to avoid the Zombies and only risk a Fight if there is no other chance. In Alpha 17 People must go and hunt Zombies to levelup makes not much sense if this game should be still a survival game.

 
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